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Subject:Acid 4.0b is frustrating!
Posted by: knowbody
Date:1/11/2003 8:06:06 PM
well I managed to reinstall the latest Creative Audigy Drivers (thanks to those people who replied to my earlier post "Creative Pain in the Asio") but I'm still having problems with Acid and my patience is wearing thin. I have a 21 track project, all loops except for two oneshots, no extra buses, no effects and Acid can't play to the end of the song without sound breakup, stutter and falling over. With no effect and no extra buses it went longer without grinding to a halt (almost 4 minutes), with one extra bus with no effects added it halts after around 3 minutes). I've read posts about buffers and latency - what Audio settings can I adjust to try and cure this problem? I've reinstalled the entire system, I've spent days setting the system up and to what end - I'm almost thinking of going back to Acid 2.0 not having Acid 3.0. Here are my system specs (again!): Windows XP Pro, Pentium 4 2GB, 1 GB Ram, Audigy Ext, Radeon 8500DV videocard, drivers up to date I have plenty of hard disc space and I defrag regularly Please someone help, as Sonic Foundry Support aren't replying. Chris (Hunt) |
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Subject:RE: Acid 4.0b is frustrating!
Reply by: MyST
Date:1/11/2003 8:53:12 PM
Do you have the very latest driver for the Radeon? That was a known issue with SoFo products before. The latest driver is dated January 10,2003. M |
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Subject:RE: Acid 4.0b is frustrating!
Reply by: knowbody
Date:1/12/2003 3:19:19 AM
Thanks, I hadn't realised that a new Radeon driver was out! Unfortunately it hasn't changed anything - I still have the same problems. What was the known issue? Chris |
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Subject:RE: Acid 4.0b is frustrating!
Reply by: pazzap
Date:1/12/2003 5:47:23 AM
the known issue was screen freezes, not just with sofo audio software but some others as well....not trying to be negative...but IMHO the creative card is most of the problem....why not an audiophile or mia, for the same money???I am on 2ms (128samples) with the mia in Win98SE and the demo song plays back great in Acid 4.0b |
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Subject:RE: Acid 4.0b is frustrating!
Reply by: Neil_Palfreyman
Date:1/12/2003 7:06:45 AM
Chris - have you considered using the KX drivers? http://kxproject.spb.ru/ I've been using them with an SB Live and can get a comfortable 11mS latency with no pops and crackles at all on very complex projects. |
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Subject:RE: Acid 4.0b is frustrating!
Reply by: knowbody
Date:1/12/2003 10:15:43 AM
Thanks for the info pazzap - next time I buy a sound card it almost certainly won't be Creative - but that's what I'm stuck with for now. Thanks for the KX driver suggestion, Neil. I installed it and tried it out. I still seeem to have the same problem! I can play a mix until almost the end and then the sound starts to drag, becoming elongated. The sound quality is different but the error appears to be the same. I wonder what settings I can adjust - and what it means that I'm having trouble with two different drivers. I noticed that the momory usage is very high. The mix I'm testing has 23 tracks, 18 loops and 5 oneshots. There are no effects, no extra buses - nothing fancy. Windows Task Manager shows CPU usage growing it gets to around 50-60% mid way through the mix (2 minutes) and hovers around there until the sound hangs when it shoots up to netween 80-100%. I have 1 GB of Ram - it's ridiculous! Any more ideas, please, Chris |
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Subject:RE: Acid 4.0b is frustrating!
Reply by: ByronIV
Date:1/12/2003 11:28:50 AM
"next time I buy a sound card it almost certainly won't be Creative - but that's what I'm stuck with for now." good thought, I think they lost there pro-niche after the death of the SB16. |
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Subject:RE: Acid 4.0b is frustrating!
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:1/12/2003 3:19:27 PM
Try turning the One-shots into Loops via the track properties. Be aware, though, this will eat your RAM depending on how large the file is. HTH, Iacobus |
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Subject:RE: Acid 4.0b is frustrating!
Reply by: fresnog
Date:1/12/2003 3:28:22 PM
Have you looked into the swapfile management screen? I know you have a gig of ram, but it can't hurt to check. Make your swapfile static (instead of the default 'let windows manage my swapfile') by setting the minimum and maximum to the same size - generally 1.5 times the size of your ram. Maybe this will help???>..... Fresnog |
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Subject:RE: Acid 4.0b is frustrating!
Reply by: knowbody
Date:1/12/2003 5:07:17 PM
Thanks fresnog, I could increase the size of my swap file - at the moment it's the same as my ram and yes, I've made sure the size is static. As far as I can tell by looking at the taskbar manager there's very little activity with the swap file. Chris |
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Subject:RE: Acid 4.0b is frustrating!
Reply by: knowbody
Date:1/12/2003 5:18:52 PM
Thanks for the suggestion, Iacobus, I tried this and it didn't work! In a way I'm glad because if I have to give up using one shots to use Acid that is going to make the whole process a lot less fun and more time-consuming. Back to the drawing board. Chris |
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Subject:RE: Acid 4.0b is frustrating!
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:1/12/2003 7:19:37 PM
There's definitely something up. Something I didn't think of earlier: Did you try setting the project to 16-bit/48 kHz? This is the bit-depth and sample rate the Audigy uses internally even if you set the project to 24-bit, so the Audigy has to do the conversion on the fly, causing more work. Make sure you give SoFo a call tomorrow. It might cost you, but it's better than waiting for an email response. HTH, Iacobus |
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Subject:RE: Acid 4.0b is frustrating!
Reply by: knowbody
Date:1/12/2003 10:44:51 PM
Thanks for plugging away at this, Iacobus. Yes, I'm at 16 bit 48 khz - anything else is a distant dream. Given that I live in Japan I'm not over-keen on phoning Sonic Foundry. I'll hope someone from Sonic Foundry picks up on this thread and make some suggestions. Cheers, Chris |
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Subject:RE: Acid 4.0b is frustrating!
Reply by: Nat
Date:1/12/2003 11:00:49 PM
In the performance tab which is in the system properties, I think it's in Advanced, try changing the priority to Background applications, It can help when using ASIO. Also, try setting the latency of the Audigy to 20-40 ms to see if it does the same thing. Nat |
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Subject:RE: Acid 4.0b is frustrating!
Reply by: knowbody
Date:1/12/2003 11:26:38 PM
Thanks Nat, did you mean Processor Scheduling or Memory Usage or both? Processor Scheduling has radio buttons for Adjust for best performance: "Programs" or "Background Services". Memory useage has choices for "Programs" or "System Cache". I tried switching best performance from programs to background services and adjusting the latency this seemed to help a little. Chris |
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Subject:RE: Acid 4.0b is frustrating!
Reply by: knowbody
Date:1/12/2003 11:42:52 PM
I take that back - I thought I'd try adding a bus with a couple of effects and the breakup was just as bad as before. The whole system is on hte verge of collapsing. I think I was just hoping/hearing for an improvement when there wasn't any. Sigh, Chris |
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Subject:RE: Acid 4.0b is frustrating!
Reply by: jtuffen
Date:1/13/2003 5:03:12 AM
Hey Chris, Noticed that you're using a P4 - You know about the 'denormal' problem with that CPU?? Sounds like you might be running into it... Basically, when the numbers representing the audio get very small, the CPU bogs down - the fact that you're finding this toward the end of your track indicates that there might be some reverb tails just hitting this point. Try muting individual tracks to see if any one effect is causing the problem; alternatively add a dither plugin at the beginning of each plug-in-chain that you're using (this has the effect of adding a tiny amount of noise to the signal, not enough to hear, but enough to keep 'the numbers' big enough to avoid the problem) What effects are you using by the way?? This (denormal bug) is **not** an Acid problem! Hope this helps! john.. http://www.namke.com/ |
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Subject:RE: Acid 4.0b is frustrating!
Reply by: dkistner
Date:1/13/2003 5:44:41 AM
Wow, John, this is the most helpful information I've gotten all year! Just got a P4 for Christmas, and I expect you just saved me a whole ton of grief. Thanks. Diane P.S. If you or anyone else knows a good link to a summation of this problem (not the software engineer's version), please post it! |
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Subject:RE: Acid 4.0b is frustrating!
Reply by: knowbody
Date:1/13/2003 8:28:28 AM
Thanks, John. That's a very good tip. I wish it helped! I'm not using any effects! Just loops and one-shots. when I did try a couple of effects on a bus Acid locked up my system after a couple of minutes and I only just managed to get it back. Hang on.... I just tried that experiment again -- One bus with dither, wavehammer and reverb. I got a lockup midway through the mix. It seems the more effects I add the sooner the lockup occurs. I do feel it's some memory issue. I really appreciate all the suggestions everyone is making. I just hope I can find the answer. Chris |
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Subject:RE: Acid 4.0b is frustrating!
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:1/13/2003 12:32:39 PM
How long has it been since you've formatted? Think about wiping your system clean and then start anew. (This is a last ditch effort if nothing else works.) Do you know the make and model of your motherboard? Maybe a BIOS update may help... Iacobus |
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Subject:RE: Acid 4.0b is frustrating!
Reply by: knowbody
Date:1/13/2003 4:49:05 PM
Thanks Iacobus - this is AFTER reformatting my hard drives and reinstalling everything from the ground up. That's a good idea about updating the bios - I haven't tried it yet. Chris |
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Subject:RE: Acid 4.0b is frustrating!
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:1/13/2003 10:58:42 PM
That's good to know, since we now know it's possibly not software related. Be careful, as always, if there's a BIOS update available for your mobo and follow instructions to the letter. (A mistake can hose your system.) If this is a newer mobo, chances are there's an update. Let us know how you make out with the issue. Iacobus |
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Subject:RE: Acid 4.0b is frustrating!
Reply by: dkistner
Date:1/14/2003 6:06:29 AM
A question. Would a dither plugin added to the Master track take care of the P4 denormalization problem, or do you need to do it to at the track level for it to work? Are there any denormalization plugins you would recommend--and is that what they do essentially, dither? |
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Subject:RE: Acid 4.0b is frustrating!
Reply by: knowbody
Date:1/14/2003 6:27:40 AM
Ok I'm out of my depth! I'm using an Asus P4B533 Motherboard. There are lots of bios updates. But there are some WinXP updates as well and I can't work out whether I need them or not. What's this when it's at home: ALC650 AC97 Audio Codec WDM Driver V5.10.0.3840 for Windows 98SE/ME/2000/XP And this: Intel(R) Chipset Software Installation Utility V4.00.1009 That's all the information I can find. Is this a case of if I don't know what it is then I don't need it - or what? Thanks, Chris |
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Subject:RE: Acid 4.0b is frustrating!
Reply by: DKeenum
Date:1/14/2003 10:57:47 AM
I'm with dkistner, tell me more about a dithering plug-in. |
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Subject:RE: Acid 4.0b is frustrating!
Reply by: MyST
Date:1/14/2003 11:14:14 AM
Is there any way you could get hold of another sound card to try out? Maybe an audiophile 24/96 or Echo Mia. If it solves the problem you know you've got some saving up to do. :) M |
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Subject:RE: Acid 4.0b is frustrating!
Reply by: dkistner
Date:1/14/2003 12:33:00 PM
And don't forget that sometimes computers are lemons or have components that need to be swapped out for new ones while they're still under warranty. I know the tech guys are always saying "it's a software problem," but we've had to have hardware replaced on new machines more than a few times. One of the worst years of my life was when I had a motherboard with a hairline crack in it. |
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Subject:RE: Acid 4.0b is frustrating!
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:1/14/2003 12:57:46 PM
You have to find the exact model. I see several at ASUS' site myself, including the P4B533-M (which uses the Intel 845E chipset) and the P4B533-V (Intel 845G chipset). Do you have your motherboard's manual handy? Iacobus |
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Subject:RE: Acid 4.0b is frustrating!
Reply by: dkistner
Date:1/14/2003 3:03:57 PM
Fortunately, it's pretty easy for me to find out what I need in the way of drivers, bios updates, etc. I just go online to Gateway and enter my computer's serial number. They've got everything on file and present me with what I've got and what I can update, along with download links to just the right thing! Being connected into the Matrix has its drawbacks, for sure, but this is one aspect of it that I really do appreciate. Diane |
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Subject:RE: Acid 4.0b is frustrating!
Reply by: knowbody
Date:1/14/2003 5:34:23 PM
I have the user guide for the motherboard and it says P4B533 - no other lettering. Trying out another soundcard is a good idea but unfortunately I'm all alone in a small Japanese town. Of course, it could be a hardware problem, though I've no idea how I could identify it, or some deep setting. For example, when I use xcopy it has the tendency to make files copied hidden which I'm sure it shouldn't do. I'll back everything up and upgrade the bios. Thanks everyone for plugging away at this. Chris |
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Subject:RE: Acid 4.0b is frustrating!
Reply by: jtuffen
Date:1/15/2003 9:35:32 AM
This link has a bit more information - from UK magazine 'sound on sound' http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/oct02/articles/pcnotes1002.asp cheers, john.. http://www.namke.com/ |