Thanks SPOT,

"Vegas doesn't access them at this time"
*Hope you're talking about Vegas 3*

:)

please please let us have asio, or some sort of monitoring scheme that works

I would find it very strange if Sf decided the not include ASIO in VV4, since the code is already done and works well in Acid 4.0. They might not have it ready for initial release but implement it in a abcde... release.

I believe SF position on this, is that ASIO has limitations and flaws inherent to it, and are going more in the direction of WDM, as a low latency solution. Probably the only reason they would go in the direction of ASIO is to be able to support functions like "Rewire" and "VSTi" where the other app may be using an ASIO driver. So if these functions aren't going to be included in V4, then I wouldn't expect to see ASIO within Vegas. Other than that, having an external mixing board connected to Vegas gives zero latency as a monitor solution.

They released Acid 4.0 with ASIO some months ago.

Vegas can only use my MOTU drivers in Windows Clasisc mode, and cannot use full WDM mode.

Do you really imagine they will be releasing Vegas 4 *without* ASIO ?!!

geoff

The flaws of ASIO are no worse than those of WDM KS. I prefer ASIO because it support simple sync between input and output. The biggest downside to ASIO is the ASIO SDK and the inconsistent implementation of drivers from vendor to vendor.

There is no dependecny on ASIO for ReWire or VSTi.

ASIO's biggest user advatage is low latency. ACID had to have this to support VSTis correctly. Vegas 4.0 also has a need for low latency.

Peter

"Do you really imagine they will be releasing Vegas 4 *without* ASIO ?!!"

No, that's pretty much a given and has already been stated in previous discussions.

http://www.sonicfoundry.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=19&MessageID=126260

Here's some other discussions on the subject:
http://www.sonicfoundry.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=19&MessageID=129850
http://www.sonicfoundry.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=19&MessageID=133163
http://www.sonicfoundry.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=19&MessageID=100412

I just don't believe that ASIO is the solution to all the problems anyone is having by not having ASIO. ASIO almost made it into VV3, so I would expect it to appear in V4, just like it is in Acid 4.0. I think it will solve one problem, but create secondary problems with users using multiple sound cards, like myself. I just hope that Echo ASIO drivers don't have this issue and I will still be able to use dual Gina Cards with sample accurate sync between them using ASIO drivers. WDM also has it's problems inherent to it, but has been progressing with the latest Windows XP updates. I believe the best solution is "Purewave", which is already supported under Vegas 3.0. Purewave is also supported by Cool Edit, Cakewalk, Samplitude, Saw and Reason, and bypasses the Windows Kmixer, which seems to be the stem of many limitations. Maybe it would therefore be better to ask your sound cards manufacturere to support Purewave drivers rather than asking SF to support something that has many other limitations like ASIO.

Oh well, maybe in the end we'll end up with the best of both worlds. I just hate the thought of relying on something developed by Steingberg, that my Sonic Foundry software will have to rely on. Talk about an unfair competitive advantage....basically it's like SF putting their cahoonies in Steinberg's hands and asking them not to squeeze too hard.

:-)

"Vegas 4.0 also has a need for low latency."

Thanks for the "hint" Peter.....I'll be investing in some VSTi instruments in the near future :-)

:)

I doubt there will be Vsti support in Vegas though.
I think the ASIO driver might be needed to have low latencies when using plugins.

<<I believe the best solution is "Purewave", which is already supported under Vegas 3.0.>>

Red: are you currently using Purewave? If so, any problems or other pertinent issues that'd be useful?

Thanks,

drbam

Red-You could choose either "asio" or "windows classic drivers" in acid 4. So if you had a prob syncing in V4 you could just revert back to what works and move forward from there.

HTH.

Ed.

See Nat, Peter answered for me. I knew if I kept my mouth shut long enough, someone would say something. I can't comment due to NDA>...

"Purewave" is a marketing name for a native Wave MME driver. It is a nice thing to do, and something that I wish every vendor would do. Echo has done a great job with this. In one sense it is a step backward in that it bypasses all of the fancy WDM driver model stuff.

However it should be noted that RME has been doing this all along, choosing not to provide a WDM KS driver.

The sad part is that WDM and Kmixer has forced this type of effort on Echo's part to happen.

The point is that PureWave is Wave MME. Nothing more or less.

However, Wave has its problems as well. I have yet to see or work with an Audio driver model/api that didn't.

Peter

>Posted by: SonicPCH (Ignore This User) Not F&*^$%g likely !

>However, Wave has its problems as well. I have yet to see or work with an Audio >driver model/api that didn't.

So, when are you going to furnish the 'correct' solution to MS, make your M$ and buy SF from your boss ?

We know you've got the chops ....

geoff

>>So, when are you going to furnish the 'correct' solution to MS
<<
The problem is there are many different needs. MS is focused on the "best overal user experiance". This makes sense for them as dealing with Joe average computer user is far more important than the niche MI/Broadcast/NLE marketspace. It HAS to work for the Gamers and Surfers of the world, which outnumber us probably 100,000 to 1.

Just wondering, but how is the MAC side handling this? It's been over a year since I last did any audio work on a MAC, so I'm not quite up to date. I read that 0SX is doing similar development as Win XP is doing with WDM. Is ASIO the current solution on the MAC side with Digidesign, or is there something else?

Is low-latency WDM functionality very difficult to implement in software? That is, why would everybody keep MME functionality in all their software, but rarely do they develop low-latency WDM capabilities?

I'm curious because it would seem to me that if a developer could develop a low-latency ASIO solution, WDM support would also be logical. The one thing that I like about WDM is the fact that you can benefit from low-latency operation right out-of-the-box with any old crap soundcard. This could make mobile applications far easier, since it would mean that you wouldn't have to spend extra on a good mobile PCMCIA interface.

However, I've only seen WDM really used in one application, and that's Sonar. Why are they the only ones to have used this implementation?

WT

MacOSX offers "CoreAudio" a low-latency system-level audio-architecture. From what I've heard (or what Apple wants to make me believe!?) it's a bit more flexible than ASIO. And IMHO it's not bad if the driver architecture is part of the OS and not a proprietary thing like ASIO. But on the other hand: ASIO works very well on my PC. Latency is very low - so what more should I want?

It's not easy, and also Microsoft has threatened to not continue it's development. Notice that Sonar is doing ASIO and support for Protools now?

Hi SPOT! (Incidentally, you wouldn't be the Spotted Eagle fellow of Creative Cow? I've not been lurking around this board so much...)

Touche... Perhaps it looks like Cakewalk bet on the wrong horse after all!

Why does Microsoft want to discontinue development? I thought WDM was the new de facto post-Win98 standard for hardware drivers. I was also under the impression that everybody (even Joe Consumer, with his SoundBastard and Talking Parrot software) wins from lower latency...

Am I correct in my understanding that low-latency WDM risks serious instability if not implemented properly?

It really is a pity though. Low latency for the masses was a really cool idea.

So is "Purewave" just an euphemism for plain ol' MME? And yet a couple clever audio interface manufacturers seem to have coaxed low-latency operation out of this old-fashioned driver standard?

Boy, I'm just full of questions...

Cheers,
WT

I'll leave it for someone more qualified than I to answer. Yes, I'm the same Spot of the COW and the DMN forums and wanted poster in most Post Offices...
www.sundancemediagroup.com/vegas.htm
and owner of the largest Vegas site in the universe....
I don't think Cake bet on the wrong horse, the technology is still here. Question is whether MS will continue to support it. I think they'll not do anything to NOT support it, but may not develop for it. It IS better. But people are complacent. Rather than screaming for it in it's infancy, they are happy with ASIO. which comparably sucks.