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Subject:How to make my music sound more live?
Posted by: starchild666
Date:1/4/2003 5:41:34 AM
I have a question.... all the music on TV and radio sounds so live.... but all my acid mysic sounds so poor.... I'm recording guitar tracks, bass, vocal and adding drum loops.... but somehow it doesn't sound like I want it to be.... I wonder what sound effects do producers use to make sound live.... can anyone reccoment some sound fx to me? |
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Subject:RE: How to make my music sound more live?
Reply by: groovewerx
Date:1/4/2003 8:35:37 AM
http://forum.cubase.net/forum/Forum3/HTML/004436.html |
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Subject:RE: How to make my music sound more live?
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:1/5/2003 9:22:47 AM
The obvious ones I can think of are to offset events in ACID here and there. (Highlight and event and use 4 or 6 on your keyboard's numpad to "nudge" the event left or right. Zoom in for more minute nudging.) Also, delay and some reverb never hurt. ;o) (Delay first, reverb second in the chain.) Mix the material well so that it sits right in the mix. (Bass on the left, guitars on the right, etc.) Be sure EQ frequencies of the instruments don't clash too much, or it'll get muddy. Create the "Wall of Sound" effect by duplicating tracks and offsetting them a tad for a chorus-like effect. You can also detune the duplicated tracks to make it sound thicker. (Access the track's properties and enter a value that's not a whole number in the "Pitch shift" field, like "0.800".) HTH, Iacobus |
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Subject:RE: How to make my music sound more live?
Reply by: zendar
Date:1/5/2003 9:33:30 AM
drench it in reverb |
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Subject:RE: How to make my music sound more live?
Reply by: dkistner
Date:1/5/2003 10:17:04 AM
Iacobus, this leads me to a question I've had a long time. When one is panning music, should you do it as the musician or as the listener? I always do it as the listener: I am looking at a stage, and the orchestra has the basses and cellos on the right and the violins and flutes on the left. So when I hear a song that someone has panned in the other direction, it discombobulates me as a listener. I got a glimmer as to why people do this when a friend explained to me that he pans instruments the way he would hear them if he is playing in the band, facing the audience. That would explain why he hears it backwards from the way I would. But this seems an important issue in the making of music. Mixing masters out there, what's the general rule of thumb? |
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Subject:RE: How to make my music sound more live?
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:1/5/2003 11:45:53 AM
Do it as if you're the listener. That's who you're trying to entertain. (I'm a musician too, but I know better...) ;o) Iacobus |
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Subject:RE: How to make my music sound more live?
Reply by: dvdmike
Date:1/5/2003 10:44:02 PM
Not being a musician, I personally think the traditional rules of instrument placement are absurd. Music, in my humble opinion, should be creative and reflect the artist's feelings, not the listeners. I get involved with this argument all the time when talking about surround mixing. So-called purists chastise producers who put instrumentation in the rear channels because it does not replicate a stage environment properly. I am one who believes that music sounds better when coming from all sides and above and below you. The notion that recorded music should always replicate a “live” performance is quite limiting and backwards thinking given today’s presentation mediums. Therefore, put your sound where you want it, where it sounds good to you. Some will hate it but others might feel as you do. If what you are going for is a replication of the sound that your great great great grandfather might have heard in the 1800’s, use the symphonic rules of instrument placement. Otherwise, be your own artist and use the tools of delays, reverbs and so on and put your instruments where you wish. |
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Subject:RE: How to make my music sound more live?
Reply by: dkistner
Date:1/6/2003 8:42:13 AM
I'm not so interested in traditional instrument placement as I am in the neurophysiology of music and how the different hemispheres perceive/process/share the elements of a work. One could spend months reading the literature on this subject. I had a great article by Dr. Manfred Clynes, suggesting why different types of instruments/lines work better when primarily processed through the left or right hemisphere, but I've misplaced it and can't find it now. But I came away thinking it's best to keep the textural elements, plus the "deep" stuff, on the right and the higher melodic components on the left. What I do is pan things until I get that cell-tingling thrill when I listen to the mix. It just so happens that most times I get this effect when I keep my panning fairly true to traditional orchestral layouts; except I tend to play instruments off each other on the left and right (like violas having a conversation across my brain). But it's very weird to me to hear bass on the left if there isn't some counterbalancing bassline or drone on the right. I don't think this is a matter of musical pedagogy, because I only started teaching myself about music in the last few years. In other words, some music teacher did not make me hidebound about it. I go by how my body feels as I listen, and if it feels good, I do it. Of course, I've made some very interesting discoveries by putting my headphones on backwards.... It's kind of like an artist turning a work upside down to better visualize what's right/wrong with it. Try it sometimes! Diane |
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Subject:RE: How to make my music sound more live?
Reply by: braulio
Date:1/6/2003 2:01:33 PM
I prefer using a combination of effects and placement of different instruments to add depth to my music. Using the same reverb effect on all instruments in different amounts tends to simulate distance. More reverb on the drums, for example creates the illusion of them being farther from the listener. No reverb on a soloist or vocalist puts them "in your face". This, combined with panning can give your music a more 3-dimensional sound. |
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Subject:RE: How to make my music sound more live?
Reply by: spesimen
Date:1/6/2003 2:56:52 PM
I'm usually more concerned about depth and spatiality with sounds rather than panning. I find it quite distracting if the sounds seem to weigh too much towards one side or another, so i tend to try and balance each sound that is panned alot with another sound in the same frequency range on the other side. (Like the violin 'conversation' thing dkistner mentioned) It's easier when you're not concerned about sounding too realistic, like recreating an actual orchestra. For me, things like pads always get double tracked and panned hard left + right to give them the maximum amount of space and 'air' and then the other elements usually sit across the soundfield. it totally depends on the type of music and destination media too. panning a hard kick drum anything but center will cause plenty of trouble if you are cutting to vinyl, for instance. as far as the orignal poster's comment...sounding 'live' is really easy if you record everything live. without more info it's hard to tell what the problem really is - is it just not energetic enough? maybe the parts are lacking in energy. does it sound too mechanical? loop different parts that have subtle timing to them.. there's a million approaches and it sometimes takes a little trial and error to find the way of working that suits your musical style the best.. |
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Subject:RE: How to make my music sound more live?
Reply by: dkistner
Date:1/7/2003 7:06:07 AM
I find it's really helpful when folks share their tips and tricks here. I'd like to see more of this kind of talk on this list. It helps to keep one in touch with creativity and out of the old complain/moan/worry mode. |
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Subject:RE: How to make my music sound more live?
Reply by: braulio
Date:1/7/2003 8:02:05 AM
I would agree that hard panning anything left or right is not a good idea unless there is something to compliment it panned exactly opposite. Another thing I like to do with my music is to leave "holes" in the predominant parts, melody, solos, etc. where the background stuff can show through. A solid wall of sound can get boring, which is why the greatest composers stick in a rest every now and then. Silence is one of the most powerful tools in music. I actually downloaded a VSTi which was produced as a joke. It was called silencer. Here is a quote from their website: http://www.linplug.com/Products/Custom-made/custom-made.htm “Silencer is the revolutionary VST instrument musicians have being waiting for. There are plenty of instruments to play notes. What's missing all the time is an instrument for the rests between the notes. Silencer fills this gap, offering unlimited polyphony even with slower CPU's. Internal Silence generation is done with a unique 64 bit engine offering the highest quality of silence imaginable. Silencer works completely automatic and needs no parameters to be sets by the user. So its easy to handle and does not even need a manual.” All joking aside, silence really is golden. Cheers, Braulio |
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Subject:RE: How to make my music sound more live?
Reply by: drbam
Date:1/7/2003 8:51:13 AM
<<All joking aside, silence really is golden>> I agree. Well placed silence or "space" tends to draw the listener forward and into the mix, sort of like a "sonic vortex." It reminds me of guitar player and legendary studio musician Reggie Young (Memphis/Nashville) in an interview with Guitar Player magazine was asked: "What's the secret to becoming a great studio musician? Reggie's reply "Knowing when NOT to play." ;-) drbam |
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Subject:RE: How to make my music sound more live?
Reply by: MyST
Date:1/7/2003 8:58:11 AM
Keep these tips coming!! I'll be using the "print this page" button for the first time. :) |
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Subject:RE: How to make my music sound more live?
Reply by: Gordian
Date:1/7/2003 9:13:41 AM
Hi, once you did the mixing you should consider mastering your track. Here's what I do: render the song to wave and open it with a wave editor (eg. Sound Forge). Do some EQing if necessary, use a harmonic exciter, normalize to approx. -0.4 dB and finally do some gentle compression. Good plugins for this would be IZotope Ozone and Waves Ultramaximizer. Good luck! Gordian |
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Subject:RE: Reverb?
Reply by: spectre1
Date:1/7/2003 12:48:36 PM
Just wondering if anyone would want to expand on their reverb tips. So far, It seems like when I add reverb to a track, it just turns to mud and loses the crispness. So I pretty much use it to a minimum, maybe on the snare or hats, or if I want to use it purely as an "effect". A higher predelay helps some, but it still seems to lose that "crack" I'm looking for in my drums. Is it the reverbs I am using? I use SoFo's sometimes, but lately I've been using the Anwinda Free Reverb which seems to have a warmer sound than SoFo's but really seems to dull my tracks. |
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Subject:RE: Reverb?
Reply by: braulio
Date:1/7/2003 1:31:03 PM
Here's my humble take on reverb: Natural reverberation is the sounds you hear reflected back from whatever walls or obstructions may be present in your listening environment. Low frequencies have a tendency to be absorbed rather than reflected. In adding reverb to sound more natural, you'll want to avoid adding reverb to low frequency sources like kick drums, basses, etc. This could be one reason why things turn muddy when you add reverb. Most good reverb effects allow you to filter the frequencies you want to reverberate. Play with the frequency cutoff to find what sounds best to you. I would not suggest adding reverb to the entire mix, instead add varying amounts of reverb to individual tracks. I separate my drum tracks into kick, snare, toms, and cymbals so that I can use more reverb on snare and cymbals and less on kick and toms. Another cause of muddiness can be adding too many different kinds of reverb, as different reverb effects have a tendency to clash with each other. Also, reverb can add up in the mix to cause a jumbled mess if you use too much on any one track, so use it sparingly. Good Luck, Braulio P.S. I found some really great studio recording tips from Wendy Carlos (formerly Walter Carlos). I think you'll enjoy them. http://www.wendycarlos.com/resources/studiotips.html |
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Subject:RE: Reverb?
Reply by: dkistner
Date:1/7/2003 3:32:05 PM
Ah, the mysteries of reverb...thanks braulio! It never occurred to me to filter out reverb at lower frequencies. (Walter...did he transform?) |
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Subject:RE: How to make my music sound more live?
Reply by: dvdmike
Date:1/10/2003 3:49:22 AM
I had never heard of neurophysiology of music. Interesting. If you find a good article on the web on this subject, please post. |
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Subject:RE: How to make my music sound more live?
Reply by: Weevil
Date:1/10/2003 6:12:22 AM
Starchild I can think of about a million different answers to this question. There are so many things that can work but very few (if any) absolute rules. Each piece of music is different and works by different ‘rules’, you can’t just throw a blanket answer that works for everything. Is there any of your stuff available to download and listen to? It’d be great to have a specific example to talk about. |
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Subject:RE: How to make my music sound more live?
Reply by: starchild666
Date:1/10/2003 4:40:00 PM
thank U all! :) U really helpedme a lot... :) |
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Subject:RE: How to make my music sound more live?
Reply by: MyST
Date:1/11/2003 11:36:10 AM
Have any of you read the "Basic" series by Paul White? I bought basic Mixing Technics and basic Effects and Processors. I haven't had much time to read them yet, but for 10$US each, they definitely look like a bargain. Check them out! I got mine from Amazon.ca, so I assume they're available at Amazon.com M |
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Subject:RE: How to make my music sound more live?
Reply by: Davey73
Date:1/11/2003 9:21:22 PM
As a drummer, I know of a few ways. One is to vary the tempo from time to time, momentarily and slightly, throughout the song, maybe pushing during choruses and leads, laying back for verses. Another is to vary the volumes within the tracks, not letting anything be sterile and recognizably redundant/repetitive. One of my favorite things to do is, once your song is together using the "Snap To" option, turn it off and slide a few events here and there one way or the other, giving them a more human feel. This has made the most difference for me. If you use the "Duplicate Track" function for assembling harmonies with the same loop, offset the harmonies a split second before or after the original. A little can make a big difference. Hope this helps. |
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Subject:RE: How to make my music sound more live?
Reply by: dkistner
Date:1/19/2003 1:38:16 PM
I've been on the lookout for links to neurophysiology of music. Haven't found the ones I really want to post yet, but here's one that might send you off on some interesting researches. Diane |