Subject:Songwriter's Acoustic Guitar Companion WASTE

Posted by: donkerce

Date:12/27/2002 8:23:48 PM

Is it just me or is anyone else noticing all the click track bleed?
And how about the complete lack of SUS chords?
This is just sad.
I've come to expect a LOT better from SF.
I've pretty much wasted $50.
Does anyone actually screen these CDs before they are put out?

Subject:RE: Songwriter's Acoustic Guitar Companion WASTE

Reply by: groovewerx

Date:12/28/2002 12:25:04 AM

thats too bad but a great reason to hire a musician for $50 to stop by and record exclusive loop material.

Subject:RE: Songwriter's Acoustic Guitar Companion WASTE

Reply by: knowbody

Date:12/28/2002 5:50:57 AM

I was thinking of buying this! I still am!

What is click track bleed?

And what do you mean by lack of SUS chords? Is that something to do with sustain.

Please help a novice.

Thanks,

Chris (Hunt)

PS Any views/reviews of Friendly Fire, Bass Taster, Workingman's Bass and the Jade Hill Rock/Pop guitars discs. They are on my "if only..." list.

Subject:RE: Songwriter's Acoustic Guitar Companion WASTE

Reply by: donkerce

Date:12/28/2002 7:55:43 AM

Click track bleed is hearing the drum machine
the guy was playing to coming thru his headphones
and being picked up by the mics on the guitar.
It is VERY annoying!
And a sus chord is a type of chord with no 3rd.
Instead you have a 4th.
So you can then resolve to the third.
You sorta can't really do without them.

Subject:RE: Songwriter's Acoustic Guitar Companion WASTE

Reply by: knowbody

Date:12/28/2002 8:40:56 AM

Thanks donkerce. I can't really believe that Sonic Foundry could put out a loop CD with what amounts to background noise. Has anyone else noticed it? What's going on? Do you think the CD was rushed to meet some marketing deadline? I got Acid when it first came out and I was so impressed with stability. But it seems quality control has started taking a backseat. I still like Acid 4.0 and I realise it's a lot more complex but I am having problems with it. I'm hoping a fresh installation of Windows XP will sort them out.

Chris

Subject:RE: Songwriter's Acoustic Guitar Companion WASTE

Reply by: Jessariah

Date:12/28/2002 9:26:18 AM

Chris,

Working Man's Bass and Bass Taster are both great libraries. I haven't really dug into Friendly Fire yet. Rock/Pop Guitars is well recorded, but a majority of the loops in the library are "song parts" -- IOW, you have chords progressions, melodies and counter melodies that all work together. In theory, I guess, it's a nice thing to have...unless someone else down the street decides to write the "same song." I was recently working on a guitar-based piece and found one of the lines from Rock/Pop worked and sounded great. Unfortunately, it was one of the "delinquint" loops that were in the Acid Planet 8 Pack when the library first came out.

As for the new Acoustic library, I don't hear the bleeding. Is it a specific loop or folder? I actually like the library a lot. Suspendeds would be nice. Holds would have been better (as opposed to the "strums"). My only real wish is that they would have cut bak on the number of tempos and increased the variety of patterns.

Subject:RE: Songwriter's Acoustic Guitar Companion WASTE

Reply by: donkerce

Date:12/28/2002 10:46:49 AM

It's REALLY bad in the 70bpm strum folder.
49 out of 78 loops have bleed.
I can't believe they used a hi-hat for a click.
Back to Recording Class 101 for these guys.
Just went thru ALL the One Chord Strumming folders.
Out of a total of 396 loops,
133 have enough bleed to make them unusable.

Subject:RE: Songwriter's Acoustic Guitar Companion WASTE

Reply by: Jessariah

Date:12/28/2002 1:25:41 PM

I hear what you're talking about, but I'm not sure...Are you sure it's not pick noise? I bought a library from a third party once that had bad bleed through (it was a hi-hat as well) and it was very prominant in the background. I'm not sure if this is the click or the pick...

Subject:RE: Songwriter's Acoustic Guitar Companion WASTE

Reply by: donkerce

Date:12/28/2002 1:59:25 PM

Definately hat. Hear how it's above the pick noise frequency?
Once you started to EQ it to fit in a track, it would jump out and bite you.
It's also kinda funny to hear the guy stray from the click every now and again.
Oh well, time to learn how to play guitar JUST enough to make my own damn loops!

Subject:RE: Songwriter's Acoustic Guitar Companion WASTE

Reply by: groovewerx

Date:12/29/2002 9:51:00 AM

thats too bad but a great reason to hire a musician for $50 to stop by and record exclusive loop material.

do you folks have a problem hiring players or is it an effort thing?

i'd rather have new, unique loops that no one else can get instead of paying the same for used goods.

Subject:RE: Songwriter's Acoustic Guitar Companion WASTE

Reply by: knowbody

Date:12/29/2002 7:36:18 PM

As for me I'm in the Japanese Countryside (I use the term countryside loosely). I don't have a proper studio and I'm still really at the hobby level so good loops are like fresh water for me. Any recommendations?

Chris

Subject:RE: Songwriter's Acoustic Guitar Companion WASTE

Reply by: groovewerx

Date:12/30/2002 12:24:03 AM

hire a musician for $50 to stop by and record exclusive loop material.

Subject:RE: Songwriter's Acoustic Guitar Companion WASTE

Reply by: knowbody

Date:12/30/2002 7:05:17 AM

You mean so I can have my own tracks with click bleed! I do like the idea, though. I guess I'd need to find a recording studio as well as a guitarist. It's a thought. I wonder how much it would all cost in the end?

Chris

Subject:RE: Songwriter's Acoustic Guitar Companion WASTE

Reply by: Jessariah

Date:12/30/2002 2:38:35 PM

I hear what you're saying (over and over), Jerome, but there are other things to consider. Finding the musician isn't always that easy. I don't know about you, but you don't get someone for very long for $50 where I live (not someone who's any good, at least). Then there's the production end of it. How much time will you be putting into a 500 +/- custom library? I like loop libraries that other people create because we all approach things differently, and it gives my projects a spin they wouldn't have if it all "came from me."

Just my $ .02

Subject:RE: Songwriter's Acoustic Guitar Companion WASTE

Reply by: dkistner

Date:12/30/2002 4:09:57 PM

Another possible loop source is PLPLoops. They have a free loops deal you can sign up for to get new loops every month, and their loop libraries look pretty cheap. But I don't really use other people's loops much, so I don't know how they are quality-wise. Anyone have an opinion?

Subject:RE: Songwriter's Acoustic Guitar Companion WASTE

Reply by: donkerce

Date:12/30/2002 4:23:47 PM

Yeah, the POINT here is that Sonic Foundry put out a very poorly executed loop library AND charged full price for it. The $50 it cost me isn't really the point.
It's the amateur production that makes me so damn mad. I needed to pop in the CD and go. Like the title says, "Songwriters Companion". And this is the first library that has been this bad. Usually the qaulity is SO much better. Very frustrating.

Subject:RE: Songwriter's Acoustic Guitar Companion WASTE

Reply by: knowbody

Date:12/30/2002 5:10:58 PM

Incidentally is it possible to 'fix' the loops with track bleed using SoundForge? Of course there's no way this should ever be required - but is it possible?

Chris

Subject:RE: Songwriter's Acoustic Guitar Companion WASTE

Reply by: donkerce

Date:12/30/2002 5:26:10 PM

Nope.

Subject:RE: Songwriter's Acoustic Guitar Companion WASTE

Reply by: Maruuk

Date:12/30/2002 9:36:42 PM

Well, this is the company that brought you AP 4.0. I don't mean that facetiously--just that obviously with the firm in dire financial straights forced to sell off its entire audio suite, massive layoffs and resignations, skeleton QA all around--this is par for the course.

I'm much more disappointed in the high-concept--the content of the loops--an extremely unimaginative set of chord progressions lacking in color and harmonic richness, and utility. Much better would have been a set of of open-ended New Age/complex loops including some deep open-tunings with some moving internal lines. Both film composers and beat monkeys could have taken THAT to the bank. Instead, it's poor man's James Taylor wannabee riffs. What a waste.

Subject:RE: Songwriter's Acoustic Guitar Companion WASTE

Reply by: donkerce

Date:12/30/2002 9:49:44 PM

Actually, all I wanted was a guy banging on an acoustic guitar for two bars.
Two bars of major, two bars of minor and two bars of sus.
In all twelve keys.
You can do ANYTHING with that!
It ain't rocket surgery, ya know?
So instead I'm gonna have to pay a friend to play EXACTLY that and pay him for his time and take MY time to make loops out of it and make my own library.
And it's gonna take a LOT more time than I wanna spend, but it'll be done right and be completely functional and do EVERYTHING I need it to.
And I'll sell copies of it on EBAY or something to make up for all the time I put into it.

Subject:RE: Songwriter's Acoustic Guitar Companion WASTE

Reply by: groovewerx

Date:12/30/2002 11:36:50 PM

for those that think hiring a musician will cost too much:

1. check your local musicians union office to find out the pay scale for hourly sessions. here in my town its $55/hr

2. you can also get musician referrals from the union. that assures you'll get a top notch professional. simply because any musician that pays $100s/yr in dues is very serious about the craft.

3. prepare for them to record before they get to your place by testing all input connections/levels and making sure your system is ready to record a one hour take. also be sure a click track will not bleed into the recording. (a visiual metronome is a great way to do this but most pros can keep time w/o a click)

4. make a list of what you want them to play and stick to it. you will have to direct
the musician toward your goal. once that goal is met and if you still have time leftover, have them record random riffs and licks for you.

5. have them repeat the parts at different tempos so you wont get those annoying artifacts from acid tempo changes.

***record them dry as possible because you can't remove the fx but you can add all the fx you want later.

i usually record them onto 1hr dat. that way i don't have to worry about buffers and time overruns. then after the session i can omit the junk as i transfer dat to pc.

all that for the price of one or two loop cds and a small amout of your time. then if you want, you can have them sign a "work for hire" agreement and sell the new library to sofo or some other entity.

no matter how much technology changes the way we make music, you still need musicians. by buying loop cds you are hiring a musician to play for you but s/he is playing the same thing for everyone else. that to me is not creative or original like sampling.

Subject:RE: Songwriter's Acoustic Guitar Companion WASTE

Reply by: groovewerx

Date:12/30/2002 11:41:53 PM

oh and if you have to goto a studio to record them, most studios have musicians available and they'll give you a package rate around $60/hr. bring your own media or pc and you'll cut that price by $20 or so.

Subject:RE: Songwriter's Acoustic Guitar Companion WASTE

Reply by: decrink

Date:12/31/2002 2:46:16 AM

Why not make a request here? Maybe someone will record just what you want.
Sorry the loops didn't work out for you.
I can do loops for you on my Breedlove. Major. Minor. Sus.
I'd even throw in a 7th or 9th!
I guess when I heard the demo loops for the Acoustic Guitar Companion I knew immediately they were going to be limited. There's only so much you can do with repetitive looping.

Subject:RE: Songwriter's Acoustic Guitar Companion WASTE

Reply by: groovewerx

Date:12/31/2002 3:37:07 AM

now there's a great solution in our own backyard. i'll be the first to try your suggestion. email me or catch me on msn messenger: groovewerx@hotmail.com asap

Subject:RE: Songwriter's Acoustic Guitar Companion WASTE

Reply by: knowbody

Date:12/31/2002 3:44:11 AM

Let me know when you get those CDs to Ebay, Donkerce, though I've never used it. Can I get stuff posted to Japan through Ebay?

Chris

Subject:RE: Songwriter's Acoustic Guitar Companion WASTE

Reply by: oddboy

Date:1/2/2003 7:33:17 PM

"There's only so much you can do with repetitive looping.

"


why is that, what limits you. please explain

Subject:RE: Songwriter's Acoustic Guitar Companion WASTE

Reply by: decrink

Date:1/3/2003 2:31:44 AM

I'm not sure how much better I can explain it. You're limited by repetitive looping. Thus, so many people are constantly looking for new and different loops. Because the ones they have are limited. Take all the loops you own and compose a Mozart level quartet. Can't be done, you're limited.
Looping is cool. Looping is easy in some ways, complex in others. But repeating the same phrase over and over is limited.
That said, I like loops. Just haven't used them much in recording my past CD's. Have always preferred live stuff from musicians I know.
I'm starting to use loops much more these days. But, they're limited.

Subject:click track?

Reply by: Jacose

Date:1/3/2003 4:59:03 AM

(a visiual metronome is a great way to do this but most pros can keep time w/o a click)

ummm....

doesnt matter how "pro" you are.

if you are a human, you need a click track ;)

Subject:click track?

Reply by: Jacose

Date:1/3/2003 5:00:01 AM

(a visiual metronome is a great way to do this but most pros can keep time w/o a click)

ummm....

doesnt matter how "pro" you are.

if you are a human, you need a click track ;)

Subject:click track?

Reply by: Jacose

Date:1/3/2003 5:11:07 AM

(a visiual metronome is a great way to do this but most pros can keep time w/o a click)

ummm....

doesnt matter how "pro" you are.

if you are a human, you need a click track ;)

Subject:click track?

Reply by: Jacose

Date:1/3/2003 5:22:37 AM

(a visiual metronome is a great way to do this but most pros can keep time w/o a click)

ummm....

doesnt matter how "pro" you are.

if you are a human, you need a click track ;)

Subject:click track?

Reply by: Jacose

Date:1/3/2003 5:53:03 AM

(a visiual metronome is a great way to do this but most pros can keep time w/o a click)

ummm....

doesnt matter how "pro" you are.

if you are a human, you need a click track ;)

Subject:RE: click track?

Reply by: dkistner

Date:1/3/2003 7:58:48 AM

Jacose, you made your point! :)

Subject:LOOOOL~~!! plz someone delete those!!!

Reply by: Jacose

Date:1/3/2003 10:54:15 AM

I am Sooooo sorry for that!!! can someone delete those multiple posts!!!!

Subject:RE: LOOOOL~~!! plz someone delete those!!!

Reply by: MyST

Date:1/3/2003 10:57:19 AM

You can delete them.
Just select "delete this message" in the post you want to delete.
You should see that in your posts, along with "edit this message".

Subject:RE: LOOOOL~~!! plz someone delete those!!!

Reply by: decrink

Date:1/3/2003 11:33:02 AM

Leave them. Its funny even if you didn't mean it!

Subject:RE: LOOOOL~~!! plz someone delete those!!!

Reply by: donkerce

Date:1/3/2003 11:39:48 AM

I agree!

Subject:RE: click track?

Reply by: groovewerx

Date:1/6/2003 4:02:25 PM

you'd probably expect a supercross athlete to use training wheels.