Subject:rms normalization

Posted by: larryo

Date:12/31/2002 4:06:02 PM

Am I missing something, or should'nt I be able to normalize a stereo 2 track file to a specified RMS value?? For instance - I've just rendered a Vegas project to Sound Forge,select the entire file, click on "statistics" and find left=17.85db and right = 17.10db. I want to normalize to say, 16db (using drop down preset), click scan levels, then ok. Doesn't work - usually winds up somewhere considerably lower than where I started. I've tried doing a track at a time, but that doesn't work either. I'm sure I'm overlooking something simple, but can't get past this. I usually wind up finding the peaks, trimming them with volume or smooth, then re-normalizing to maximum peak value until I get close to a left/right RMS balance. Any thoughts??

Subject:RE: rms normalization

Reply by: specktron

Date:1/2/2003 2:46:03 PM

Sounds like your preset has been overwritten. Your slider should be at -16 when you select your preset.

Also, volume will not affect the normalization because it doesn't change the peaks in relation to each other. And smooth messes with high or low frequencies. Use the graphic dynamics instead.

Subject:RE: rms normalization

Reply by: larryo

Date:1/2/2003 5:54:53 PM

"Sounds like your preset has been overwritten. Your slider should be at -16 when you select your preset.

Also, volume will not affect the normalization because it doesn't change the peaks in relation to each other. And smooth messes with high or low frequencies. Use the graphic dynamics instead."

I've tried bypassing the preset and using just the slider, but still have the same inconsistent result using RMS. As far as the volume/smooth aspect goes, what I do is find the largest peak in the file, zoom in on it to the max, then either "smooth" it or lower just it's volume. Since it's a nano second of audio, either process doesn't have a noticeable effect. Then I re-normalize the file using "peak" and start all over again. This is a very time consuming yet effective method. Since most files have a large spike or two, those transient peaks may limit the file considerably when normalizing in peak mode. Kind of a selective compression. I call it getting lost in the minutia, my wife calls it obsessive/compulsive. Either way, I haven't been able to successfully utilize the RMS method, but further reading in SF help files seems to dismiss RMS values when reading larger portions of audio. So, for now - it's back to peak,trim,peak,trim I guess.

Subject:RE: rms normalization

Reply by: MJhig

Date:1/2/2003 6:47:38 PM

What is your final objective? Seems like you want compression or volume maximization (limit peaks to increase overall loudness) from your posts. If you give the results you're trying to achieve there is probably a better method to achieve the desired results.

MJ

Subject:RE: rms normalization

Reply by: larryo

Date:1/2/2003 8:37:46 PM

mj - yes, the overall objective is to take my mixed 2-track files and to raise them from lets say -18.5 db to -16db. Using normalization in the RMS mode has proven unreliable because of the inconsistencies I've previously stated. Basically, whats going on is that when I scan the file in the normalize mode vs scanning it in statistics, I come up with different values.

Subject:RE: rms normalizatiom

Reply by: JTelles

Date:1/3/2003 10:45:15 AM

"what I do is find the largest peak in the file, zoom in on it to the max, then either "smooth" it or lower just it's volume. Since it's a nano second of audio, either process doesn't have a noticeable effect"

For your information: There is a Plug-in that does just that, automatically, and searches the complete file if you like. It's called Peak Slammer and is developed by Sctollworks. The url:

http://www.scrollworks.com/products/slammer/

I really like this simple plugin and I use it all the time to allow me to increase the perceived volume...
JTelles

Subject:RE: rms normalizatiom

Reply by: larryo

Date:1/3/2003 11:51:15 AM

"For your information: There is a Plug-in that does just that, automatically, and searches the complete file if you like. It's called Peak Slammer and is developed by Sctollworks. The url:

http://www.scrollworks.com/products/slammer/

I really like this simple plugin and I use it all the time to allow me to increase the perceived volume...
JTelles"

By the manufacturers description, this plug sounds like it does exactly what SF RMS normalization is supposed to do. I've had some luck last few days taking calculated guesses where RMS norm will actually end up at (usually under the target-db wise). This saves me some time (alternate is like mowing the lawn with clippers). Other than using "master for 16-bit" when rendering a vegas proj to sound forge, I typically try staying away from compression - admittedly due to my lack of knowledge using it. The slammer plug, for $40, sounds like a usable alternative. Thanks for the advise.