I belong to a recognised institute of videography. I did this out of simple inquisitiveness - not meaning to expect anything except to see what I could learn. However I shall be recieving my first "commission" as a third string cameraman on a wedding shoot in 2003. I DID NOT THINK THIS WOULD HAPPEN! Okay?

snicholshms - has it right. Not just in this business but in many other options in business.

Grazie

Shon, if you are interested in local business then get out and ask for the business. If you are just starting, select "a" single business (car dealers are good) and offer to make a video for free "if" they will (presuming they like the results) consider tossing a little business your way as a result . . . I hope it's not presumptious of me, but I am figuring you don't yet know squat about making video (or you wouldn't be asking such a question).

No offense, but if you think you can start making good stuff right out of the gate then that doesn't say much for the skills and tradecraft I, and many others, have taken years to acquire. It takes time pal. Do you know what a black balance is for? Can you write a compelling script? Do you know what the Golden Hour is? Have you got a dolly and a grip who knows how to use it? How about a crane? Do you know when to use a silver reflector and when to use a gold one? Do you know when to use it - or even what a reflector is for? What kind of wireless mics do you have. Have you got spares? What about shotgun mics? Have you got a boom? How about an operator for it? What about a field-mixer? Can you deliver a 3/4" tape (many, many cable head ends "still" use it). How about if they want it delivered on Beta SP or DVCPRO tape?

Why do I ask? Because if you think a PD150 or XL1S along with an cheap onboard shotgun plus Vegas Video is all you need, then you're in for a rude awakening!

In short, doing it for free will get your foot in the door. You'll benefit by learning to make what the customer wants, they benefit by getting something free, you "maybe" benefit in the future if you're the next Donny Deutch as they sell more cars than they ever have before (as folks come to the dealership talking about how they wouldn't have come except for that great commercial they saw on TV). More likely, at the end of the project, you have a portfolio of work - albeit slim, but "something" to show the next prospect. In fact, hopefully the car dealer will even want you to do another spot for them . . . my advice is do it even if they want it for free again because you'll learn more - and continue to put them in your debt.

FWIW, many local car adverts are produced by the local cable or television station for 300 bucks, or less (even free), because the dealer will henceforth agree to buy advertising from them - they'll produce a low budget advert using stock footage, a quick standup, plus a few graphics . . . and yes, do it for free (as a loss leader). Why? In order to get the buys in place.

If you don't know what in hell I'm talking about, you need more seasoning before you're ready to strike out on your own - consider part-timing it with a pro (i.e. as an apprentice). Also, to your potential benefit, these guys (car dealers) are all worried about selling more cars and will switch producers at the drop of a hat in hopes of getting the great spot that sells more cars - especially if the hook is the work is free. Please don't be upset that I'm suggesting you do some work for free. Why? Because until you know 'how' to make video - complete with a message and jingle (that actually works - i.e. sells product) then your commercials aren't worth anything either!

Finally, one last piece of advice, contact local charities and offer to make a PSA for them - yup, for free again. During the course of doing it, they'll learn you're getting started and will likely find some way of remunerating you (most likely not with money) but via a good referal. Good luck pal.

John Beech

John - You've got it in one or several points! - I've had to kiss a lot of frogs in my "arts-career". I done many freebies, not expecting anything back. I've written many outlines for arts charities; done many speculative projects; worked as an apprentice in many fields - and d'yknow what? I've really enjoyed doing it. And yes John, you're correct. Whilst working in one field of activity I've been offered work from not a necssarily related endevour - yes?

John, your last 2 paragraphs say it all - very clear and respectful advise.

Cheers - happy New Year!

Grazie

Well what I'm about to say prolly aint worth a damn but but my lil ol opinion.

Lemme just say that while I dont have all the years of experiance that you guys have, I dont need it to think that you guys are just a wee bit quick to judge and we're a bit pretentious in your replies. First off I dont think that because someone doesent know all of the ins and outs of starting a business means that they dont know anything about video production. You can work at a job for years without knowing how to go start your own. Just cuz you know about shutter spead and iris settings doesnt mean you know how to open your own shop. So you know about black balance ? And ? How many artist, musicians, writers, never studied their art but yet yielded timeless and unforgettable pieces ? Knowledge is not talent, black balance all day long my friend and ... exactly.

Shon, you can do anything in this world you want. In April of this year I decided, out of the blue with no previous experience, to make a movie. The next week I got my Canon XL1 after depleating my bank account, never heard of the camera before but after a whole lot of reading on the net decided this was the one I wanted. It's now Decmber and in three days its having its first showing at a theater here in Austin. Ya know what ? I have know idea what " black balance " is. I did 90% of the filming and 100% of the editing and had never heard of Vegas Video before. Is it perfect ? Nope.Am I proud as hell ... you betcha. But if it never makes a dime I'll be happy. Ive seen a million bad movies and videos, most of em by peeps who supposedly were professional, supposedly knew what they were doing.

Bah, whatever. " Golden Hour " ... bah. Rhetoric. If you have the will, youll find they way. All the info you need is on the net, the rest youll figure out.

- Ray

ray@austin.rr.com

Muttley - Well said! Yeah - if it wasn't for my enthusiasm I fink I would have ditched a lot in my life. I aint no VidJock either - just have a totally extreme love and passion for film - As for the knowledge bit - I'm STILL getting to grips with apertures and speed etc. Yeah - just depleated my budget on an XM2 - lil brother to the XL1s - Oh yeah I started my arts career against the odds and etc etc etc - very boring for those to listen to - but maybe, just maybe I might be able to "pass" on some hard won experiences - but, then again that could be heard as being "prententious" - oh well . . . happy new year to One 'n All.

Oh . . . perhaps Sr_C will get to us with his/her thoughts - yes?

Seeyah matey!

Grazie

Ray,

Congratulations! I hope for the best with your movie. You certainly taped it on a top-quality camera! I wish I had the funds available to purchase an XL1.

Great advice in my opinion. Shoot, look at all of the utter filth that comes out of Hollywood with multi-million dollar budgeted films! In my opinion, if you have good content, you're well on your way to a good film.

One of the things that amazes me about this hobby is that I am doing things on my laptop that a few years ago could only be done on million dollar setups. Amazing! I say more power to anyone who wants to stretch the limits of the technology! If I could make a living doing this stuff, you can bet I'd be doing it. :)

Jim

Bravo!

Well said John. BTW, while I am a seasoned Exec Producer, I am a rookie as a dolly grip. We are all weak somewhere. I was using the same formula that you suggested (except I will not deal with car dealerships). I went a step farther though that works for me. I had the local TV station set me up as an ad agency in their files. I produce the spot for little or nothing. Then I handle the TV placement for them if they like the spot. The station gives me 15%. That pays for the production plus profit if they do a minor package.

The station here is hurting right now so the commision was generous as well as they offered to do the actual sales pitch etc if I brought them to the door.

John is correct. If you are not a known video professional in the market or if you are still learning, you must be creative business wise. You have to study, study study. You have to get the experience. Giving it away is still cheaper than paying for film school, although maybe not as good. Any new service business is tough to get started. It may never get started. You have to ask for the business and be ready to back it up.

If I give it away I do almost all of the work. (I pay for a top makeup artist becuase it makes such a difference in standup stuff) If I am getting paid for it, then being the exec producer that I am, I hire pros and I write the checks. I am good enough now as an editor for a lot of small stuff or documentaries that I do that now on paying gigs.

This has been a lot of rambling, but I wanted to support what John said. Making a business in video, even digital video, requires more that a camera and a computer. Even adding all of the great equipment for audio and a full grip truck will not make it work. It is about hustle, delivery, creative thinking, knowing when to say no or hire the big guns. John has built a business on hustle and hard work. In fact, he is one of the guys on this forum who is truely a production pro with a feel for his audience. The best demonsration of how much hustle, commitment and professionalism John has, is that you will see posts in this forum and the cow on a regular basis asking questions. It takes guts, and hustle to continue to grow. It takes a professional who knows what he does and doesn't know to be unafraid to ask questions even about simple things. (opps, this became a John testimonial)

Sr_C, I have seen some of your stuff and you have some chops. With some creative business savy you might make it work. This was addressed to all who read it more than you. You might want to consider teaming with a business or marketing guy. Let them push the product and you do what you do best. Maybe offer a local PR firm or ad agency to do their stand-up stuff for little or nothing to get going.

Best of luck to all!

www.kolbokorp.com

Sorry guys if I came off a little pissy, I was just a little irritated by what I saw as a lack of support and encouragement that I would have hoped to have seen in a forum such as this.

Let me just say that its not that I believe you shouldnt take the time to learn the tools of your craft, but convention in not innovation and knowledge is not creativity. A person can study the technical aspects of an " art " for years and never develop an ounce of talent. How many aspiring guitarest will study and practice their entire lives long and will never have anything near the innate talent of say a Jimi Hendrix or Stevie Ray ? Six strings, six frets, 96 notes. In theory sounds easy right ? Yet with a combination of over 42,000 guitar chords the posibilities are endless ...

In conclusion, well, I'm basicly talking out of my butt. I'm not expert and hate ta sound like a motovational speaker, I'm just a boob with a nice camera and a computer trying to do a few things I can be proud of. Best wishes to those of you doing the same and Happy New Year !

- Ray

P.S. Sr_C, is any of your work online ? Would love ta have a look.

ray@austin.rr.com

When I started out I picked out 50 potential clients from Yellow Pages and sent them a letter saying who I was, what I could offer, and various ideas of how a video might help their business.

I got three or four replies - two lead to paid work.

I've done a similar thing once since, with similar results. Apart from that every new job has come as a result of previous work - either word of mouth recommendation or someone seeing a programme and contacting me for something along the same lines etc.

I am just a one man band, doing everything from planning, scripting, shooting, editing, composing music, doing voice overs etc .... the early years were sometimes a bit lean, but 10 years later I'm busier than I've ever been.
It's a great life turning your hobby into your job.

Peter

Peter,

Yup - grow it when it can and learn along the way.

Grazie

I know people who think giving a laundry list of everything they own & know is all the credential they need. Big deal. That's just time and money. It doesn't necessarily make them any better than someone who just started recently.

I agree with Muttley. Like any other craft, being a "good" videographer is part knowledge and part natural ability. Some people have an "eye" for filming, some for editing. I've seen projects from people who were just starting that looked great. I've seen garbage from many "seasoned pros..." You can make a movie without a crane. You can look at a monitor and like what you see without knowing what black balance is. Give Celine Dion a Radio Shack mic & a $40 Karaoke machine. Give Sylvester Stallone a $250,000 sound system. Who are you going to want to listen to?

Don't get me wrong. Knowledge IS power. Having the tools is great. Knowing how to use them is even better. I'm constantly learning new things, and I love it. But anything artistic goes beyond knowledge. And, in the end, it's all subjective anyway.

Funny how, more often than not, the one with the most to genuinely boast about is usually the quietest in the room...

Hi Shon,

Hopefully I can offer some insight and perspective to your question about getting corporate clients.

There are many levels in the corporate world, and most if not all of them can be helped by video. Some examples include seminars, training, orientation, facility tours, safety, product demonstrations, trade shows and sales. Working at this level can be very profitable and sustain a business full time. Many smaller corporations and industries even try to make their own videos for these purposes. Some are successful, most are not. Try speaking with Human Resources managers to see if their safety video has been updated recently for example.

At the other end of the spectrum are larger corporations with in-house video production facilities, live multi-cam uploads for web-streaming world wide meetings, corporate identity and sales. If you are just starting out, don't even think about working at this level for a while.

In time, after you get some examples under your belt and learning experiences in the vault you'll be able to move toward higher end productions. For now, start small, work smart, listen and learn from some great people here and on other web communities, get to know your equipment by videotaping as many things as you can in a variety of situations, and don't buy every gadget that comes along.

There are other sources of income you might offer to corporations including tape duplications, international format conversions, and DVD transfer and authoring. Sometimes these services will get your foot further in the door than you think.

While I admit the type of work I've described may not be glamorous, if this is what you want to do for a living you have to start somewhere and it's usually not at the top (or even in the middle ;)

Good luck in your endeavors and post your experiences good and bad. We all have something to learn here.

Mike

what is stand-up stuff

Thanks everyone, you all have given some real good pointers on where to start out.

To clarify.....

I am relatively new to this art. I have a tremendous amount to learn. And I hope I never gave the impression that I think I can just grab a camera and make a living. Like I said in my original post, if I do get something going, it will be a side business. I'm not lookin to contact Nike's ad department, I don't think I can just wave a camera and sign a 3M production contract. I am not expecting any calls from U2.

I have already started on building up a demo reel. This is priority number one. I am doing the freebie jobs. 2-3 music videos, 2 seminar videos for a small hospital and a local grocery store spot. I expect to have a demo reel (good enough to start with) completed by mid Spring.

I started this thread because I wanted to see a conversation on how you guys advertise. Cheap advertising, creative advertising and most importantly, effective advertising. Why would I be concerned with this right now? Well, I am one of those people that plan ahead. Sometimes I think I plan too much. I sometimes plan on how to plan my next plan.

Anyways, I was just lookin down the road and thought that I'd throw out this topic so that I can pick the always great minds of this forum.


Thanks again, -Shon

just have to quickly respond about John Beech's reply and Muttley's comments regarding that post...

I do agree with Muttley that John's quick jump to assume that the original poster had zero experience was a tad off-base. I was a bit insulting to read in fact.

The original poster went on to explain in a later post that he/she in fact has little experience. Does that mean John was right? I don't necessarily think so. After all, the original post simply asked what's the best way to get a little business. This question has been posted on many forums... some of them by people of considerable skills. Perhaps they worked in a staff job and were thinking of going off on their own, or perhaps laid off and simply don't know where to start on the BUSINESS end of things. Where to get clients, etc. The skills alone won't make paying clients fall in your lap - and many of responses say this, including John Beech's - except without the condescending tone.

Let's not be too quick to judge people, and lets not talk down to people. It's a sharing thing right?

Actually, in defense of John Beech (having read many of his posts), I saw his post as the well-meaning advice of a true professional. He's very opinionated, but then he has a right to be. Personally, if that post had been written to me, I wouldn't have considered it condescending, just worldly-wise -- kind of a kick-in-the-butt, don't be naive, here's the real scoop.