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Subject:Oh God, pleez don't let it be Microsoft!!!
Posted by: waynegee
Date:12/19/2002 3:50:45 PM
I guess Maruuk was right all along: http://www.abcdv.com/article/articleview/47/1/71 ...Microsoft Acid...it don't even sound right, does it? |
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Subject:More...
Reply by: waynegee
Date:12/19/2002 3:59:52 PM
http://www.madison.com/wisconsinstatejournal/special/38918.php |
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Subject:RE: More...
Reply by: vanblah
Date:12/19/2002 6:28:26 PM
Is it presumptious of me to blame this on piracy? It seems that everybody I know uses Acid, but who among them has paid for it? |
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Subject:RE: More...
Reply by: Maruuk
Date:12/19/2002 6:47:25 PM
Thanks for the heads up, Wayne! Yep, piracy is a big factor--Kazaa probably dishes out more copies of Acid than SF. The imploding numbers made a sale inevitable--heck, this should be a huge boon for the product if the buyer has both the capital to fund proper development and QA, plus has the vision to deliver a professional, effective, competitive app with Rewire. Let's face it, 4.0 has severely damaged Acid's credibility. It was shipped unfinished and un-beta'd by a desperate management who was working a skeleton staff to death on a shoestring. It is a confused conceptual mess--gone forever is the simple tool that worked, replaced by a gaggle of half-baked features nobody was asking for. I've never seen an uglier mass of dysfunctional audio code from a major player. But 4.0 should be just a distant nightmare by this time next year. With proper funding, and more importantly, a clean slate review of the product's mission, the impossible dream may not be far off. At any rate, it HAS to be better than what we got! |
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Subject:RE: More...
Reply by: waynegee
Date:12/19/2002 9:06:38 PM
Yep, I hate to say it but I think maybe the music and video divisions might be better suited in some other company's hands. I just hope the main programmers go with. Acid 4.0 didn't help, that's for sure. The reviews have been pretty negative for the most part(except for Thad Brown but who listens to him anyway?). Makes me sad...SoFo enabled me to compete with the big boys but they dropped the ball wayyyyyyy back. They brought innovation, elegance and feature set to the table that no other company has been able to match still! But the company's focus has definitely shifted and so, here's to hoping a player who wants a large piece of the audio market pie picks 'em up. Even tho' Microsoft does make cool developer tools, I don't think they can handle the music space in the manner it needs but who knows. After Apple's grab of Emagic, they gotta do something. We'll see. |
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Subject:RE: More...
Reply by: clarksil
Date:12/19/2002 9:21:10 PM
Maruuk, I couldn't agree with more!!!! |
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Subject:RE: Verdict so far... not great, but...
Reply by: SHTUNOT
Date:12/19/2002 10:43:58 PM
It is a confused conceptual mess--gone forever is the simple tool that worked, replaced by a gaggle of half-baked features nobody was asking for---Coming from the person who started a "acid 4" wishlist with soooooooooooo many ideas that included much of what was implemented in this version how can you just stand there a say that when YOU were part of the problem. Again[for the last time]...NOBODY ever stated the idea of just adding rewire and thats it...NOBODY. Please post a link to the thread that proves me wrong. I can do a search of your name and find you harping sofo to add MORE to acid to make it "less of a toy" compared to its competitors than anything else. Bringing back any memories for anybody? As the old saying goes..."Be carefull of what you wish for...". <rant over> Glad to see your doing ok and I hope that you have a happy holiday. We have t-minus 50+ days till we find out what the fate of the A/V line of sofo products will be...I just hope its a company like M-Audio that I feel will push this line to where I feel it should be in the market. Opcode/gibson anybody? Gives me the shakes. BTW...Pinnacle just acquired "steinberg"...Looks like "rewire" isn't the solution to anyones problem huh. I just can't see why sofo would sell the most solid "cash cow" that they have. In the conference call ALL other lines besides the a/v line made only in the tens of thousands of dollars. Thats taking a very big chance on a "HUNCH" that mediasitelive/unified.../etc...will take off after there debt is paid off after the sale. The sales of the a/v line+upgrades is what these jerks are playing with and we get to sit here and complain about not having rewire? Or half baked vst? Bunch of pricks. BTW...4.0b is working great over here. The issue that I had with the piano roll editor was fixed and everything else has taken a good beating and hasn't crashed/crapped out on me at all. Thanks very much to the coders who got it out by XMAS. I appreciate the effort and I hope that you and your families have a happy holiday and a safe and prosperous new year. ED. |
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Subject:RE:You might want to check this...
Reply by: RasKeita
Date:12/19/2002 11:26:57 PM
http://www.prorec.com/prorec/pressrel.nsf/articles/9E60D76B8D135826862568BE005D8F22 |
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Subject:RE: RE:You might want to check this...
Reply by: RasKeita
Date:12/19/2002 11:38:16 PM
This also... http://www.screenblast.com/screenblast2/index.idml?identifier=sw_main_root&idmltype=ui What it means well who knows but.... |
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Subject:cheinworks, you better get over here.
Reply by: Jacose
Date:12/20/2002 3:02:14 AM
watch out you may get flamed for posting that link ;) |
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Subject:RE: RE:You might want to check this...
Reply by: Chienworks
Date:12/20/2002 6:45:43 AM
RasKeita, Just in case you didn't notice, that Prorec article is over 2 and a half years old. The SonicFoundry/Sony partnership has been going on for a long time already. |
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Subject:RE: RE:You might want to check this...
Reply by: waynegee
Date:12/20/2002 9:18:42 AM
>>http://www.screenblast.com/screenblast2/index.idml?identifier=sw_main_root&idmltype=ui Ruh-Roh!...this don't look good at all! I hope this ain't the future...talk about a TOY image...ooof. It'll be O-V-E-R. I'm very disturbed by this. |
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Subject:RE: RE:You might want to check this...
Reply by: Chienworks
Date:12/20/2002 10:27:33 AM
Waynegee: *sigh* Sony has been reselling SonicFoundry's low-end apps under their Screenblast name for years now. This very old news, and it has nothing at all to do with the current situation. |
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Subject:RE: RE:You might want to check this...
Reply by: skot
Date:12/20/2002 11:33:36 AM
You want to think yourself's Lucky!! It could be E~jay in line to the throne!! |
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Subject:RE: Verdict so far... not great, but...
Reply by: Maruuk
Date:12/20/2002 1:32:29 PM
Boy, you sure are a sore loser, Shut! Sorry I was right all along, makes all your personal attacks look pretty silly now, doesn't it? BTW, NOBODY asked for OPT, a jury-rigged, unfinished midi editor, a rat's nest of incompatible drivers, a more confused interface killing the simple tool forever, plus near complete dysfunctionality. Or was that you? The future is bright, in far greener pastures! |
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Subject:RE: RE:You might want to check this...
Reply by: Maruuk
Date:12/20/2002 1:42:24 PM
Yeah, Screenblast was a huge failure--they thought everybody wanted to be a content developer rather than a user, so they created an elaborate suite of tools and content to provide online access for self-development--of course Acid was a natural in that environment. Fortunately or unfortunately (and obviously) most people are not creative artists. That's why the passive movie and TV biz are hot, and Screenblast is not. |
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Subject:RE: Verdict so far... not great, but...
Reply by: SHTUNOT
Date:12/20/2002 4:18:00 PM
Hey Maruuk... I love the way you seem to ignore key points in my posts to only find a weak loophole to fire back at me with and divert everyones attention from said facts. Enjoy. :) Btw...How's 4.0b running on your system? Have you tried the genevoice midi editor? You know what? We could really use your forward thinking genius in this area so could you pop down to this thread... http://www.sonicfoundry.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=143485&Replies=8&Page=1 and make yourself usefull to others for once with some really great ideas that we all know you have. Common dude...You bitched and complained about a "OPT jury-rigged, unfinished midi editor". So come on down and make a positive difference for all the "I love whatever maruuk has to say" fan club. Oh, BTW...I don't think that rewire would be a usefull idea here ;) Sorry. Ed. [Not SHUT...S..H..T..U..N..O..T..you figure it out] Happy Holidays. |
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Subject:this cant be good.
Reply by: aress
Date:12/20/2002 7:19:32 PM
i hope digidesign buys the acid technology... i wish i could do some of the things i do in Acid on my ProTools rig....that would be the bomb.... read this....RIP SF>>>>>>> Digital media firm works to erase debt By Lynn Welch December 18, 2002 Email this story to a friend Printer-friendly format Citing a continuing "market funk" and economic downturn, Sonic Foundry Inc. said today it plans to sell part of its business. The move will enable the cash-strapped Madison software and digital media firm to acquire funds to eliminate debt and strengthen its balance sheet. Company chairman and CEO Rimas Buinevicius said wide-ranging negotiations are under way to sell off certain parts of the business. But he wouldn't discuss details of pending transactions or which divisions are on the table. Any deals are expected to close within 60 days, Buinevicius said. "We're not in a position to comment on anything because there is a very broad set of opportunities out there presented to us," Buinevicius said in a conference call with investors. "It's not appropriate to speculate on something that may not occur." Discussion of the planned sell-off comes as the firm announced its fourth quarter and year-end results. Based on the offers they've received, Buinevicius believes the company is undervalued. "We fully intend to generate cash for the business through the sale of various assets while using a portion of the proceeds to meet key strategic and financial objectives, among which is the elimination of most or all company debt," he said. Early last year, Sonic bought MediaSite Inc. Shortly thereafter, it launched MediaSite Live, a rich media online presentation solution. Buinevicius said the company plans to continue expanding this channel of business and expects to "expedite our growth and presence in these markets in the near future through various cash generation strategies we are exploring." The company began 11 years ago developing and selling music editing software. Its software offerings have grown over the years grown to include video and audio editing tools. The company also offers media services through its MediaWorks products to clients, mostly in the entertainment industry. This includes Media Taxi, acquired last year from Digital Savant Inc. Financial results for the fourth quarter showed that revenue increased almost 20 percent and gross margins continued to improve. Year-to-year revenues were largely unchanged as the company reported it continued to make strides in paring expenses to achieve profitability. Still, the company continues to lose money. It decreased net fourth-quarter loss to $4 million, or 14 cents per share, compared to a loss of $11.4 million, or 51 cents per share for the fourth quarter a year ago. For fiscal 2002, Sonic Foundry's loss was $56.7 million or $2.12 per share compared to $49.9 million, or $2.25 a share one year earlier. The firm points out that much of the loss - $44.7 million, was due to non-cash accounting changes that impacted first quarter and fiscal year results. In a Security and Exchange Commission filing this fall Sonic Foundry said it expected to need additional working capital, a situation made more urgent by a continued low stock price. The company raised $7.2 million in financing early last year in a deal that issued convertible subordinated debt. Under this arrangement, investors can convert debt into Sonic Foundry stock. But the company does not expect investors to do this unless the shares reach about $2.45 each. The stock has been trading in the 40- to 60-cent range for the last two months. In addition, the company received notification by the Nasdaq Stock Market in October that it faced delisting in three months because it was not in compliance with listing rules that require the stock trade above $1 for 30 consecutive days. Fourth-quarter revenues were $6.4 million, up from $5.4 million a year ago and annual revenues were $26.2 million, compared with $26.3 million last year. The company pointed out that it has continued to improve its cash flow. For the fourth quarter, it generated $0.5 million while it used $0.7 million for the same period last year. During 2002, it used $4.9 million operating cash versus $10.2 million used in fiscal 2001. In 2000, it used $19 million. Published: 9:10 AM 12/18/02 |
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Subject:chienworks saves the day again....
Reply by: Jacose
Date:12/20/2002 8:07:55 PM
lol |
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Subject:RE: More...
Reply by: groovewerx
Date:12/20/2002 8:27:10 PM
hmmm... wouldnt it be nice if pinnacle bought sf as well as stienberg? just think: a hybrid of cubase and acid would be wicked. |
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Subject:RE: Verdict so far... not great, but...
Reply by: Maruuk
Date:12/20/2002 9:51:45 PM
SHT--I make myself useful by accurately predicting the future so potential investors in ongoing revs of this product have some sense of what to expect in terms of support, and quality of the application. Can you do that? Ooops, I forgot, you make yourself useful with ad hominem attacks on posters who, it turns out, were right all along. Have a Merry Christmas, I know I will! |
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Subject:RE: More...
Reply by: Maruuk
Date:12/20/2002 9:57:37 PM
groove--Yeah, that's some fun looking at the combos possible--Twelve Tone Systems, MOTU, hey, what if Apple bought in and made it Mac-only? I doubt Microsoft--after 4.0 their take on the product would only be redundant. |
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Subject:RE: Verdict so far... not great, but...
Reply by: SHTUNOT
Date:12/21/2002 12:47:28 AM
I make myself useful by accurately predicting the future--Maruuk Pointing out the obvious in a situation is pretty much your strong point thats for sure. Again only the ones who've followed your "predictions" early on know better like myself. Any more predictions you have or will you wait till they happen and say "I told you so"? That way others who didn't follow this thread will think your in the know...see a pattern here people? --Can you do that? Ooops, I forgot, you make yourself useful with ad hominem attacks on posters who, it turns out, were right all along--I guess my idea for the whole rewire thing that you liked sooo much till this day wasn't enough...The proof is all there just by clicking my name and reading my earlier posts to see my commitment to the development ideas of sofo products and the people who use them. Go ahead, I dare you. Ed. |
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Subject:RE: Verdict so far... not great, but...
Reply by: Maruuk
Date:12/21/2002 6:29:42 PM
sht--I've taken so much abuse from guys like you and Peter who screamed and moaned when I calmly pointed out MANY MONTHS AGO the real reason why 4.0 was such as disaster and why, with the company was in such dire straights, a sale was likely. Personal insults, denial, Peter whining "you knopw nothing about this company"--etc etc etc. Now that it's all been fully documented and come to pass, exactly as I laid out, you STILL can't handle the Truth. Get a life, dude, I just tell you what's going on, you'll have to deal with it on your own. At least Peter has the manliness to just slink away without being a poor sport. Me, it's gonna be very Merry Christmas! Life is good, Acid will find a good non-dysfunctional home and the healing can begin. |
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Subject:RE: this cant be good.
Reply by: Jessariah
Date:12/21/2002 10:02:55 PM
The sad part about all of this is that Sonic Foundry's pro suite of apps is the best around. I own half a dozen Adobe titles and Sonar -- I still can't imagine my rig without Forge, Vegas & Acid. |
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Subject:RE: this cant be good.
Reply by: Spirit
Date:12/22/2002 1:32:43 AM
- SoundForge is the industry standard app in its class - Vegas is way better than Premiere - Acid is my favourite audio arranger and its ergonomics is what other apps have aspired to for years I just hope that this is just as obvious to whichever company picks these titles up. It would be tragic to see them gutted into some downmarket kiddie-consumer range. |
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Subject:AND let's hope it's not APPLE!
Reply by: DaSoundGuy
Date:12/22/2002 7:32:29 AM
Do you also realize that if Apple gets a hold of SF, it's bye bye for for SF PC software? And one more Ace in Apple's cap... |
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Subject:RE: AND let's hope it's not APPLE!
Reply by: timoheil
Date:12/22/2002 11:51:54 AM
Why should Apple have any interest in a company that offers Windows-only software? Doesn't make much sense. |
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Subject:RE: AND let's hope it's not APPLE!
Reply by: Maruuk
Date:12/22/2002 2:25:18 PM
It's not that crazy. Apple is cash-rich, and the SOFO Audio Suite mirrors their corporate philosophy perfectly: simple, user-friendly, extremely effective and fun. Plus it would further enhance the impression that you need a Mac to be a creative audio/music pro. Macs already have a lock on graphics. Pro Tools is mostly Mac. This would do for looping groove music what FCP did for video. But sure, it's a long shot. Whoever bites, it's good news for us for one simple reason: SOFO is asking a bundle for this suite. Any buyer will be highly motivated to leverage their investment via a thorough modernization (helloooo Rewire) and bit-by-byte optimization and relaunch with a credible story about taking these tools to a whole new level. How can that not be big fun for the user community? |
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Subject:RE: AND let's hope it's not APPLE!
Reply by: waynegee
Date:12/22/2002 5:03:32 PM
wellp, it WON'T be Apple for the simple fact that they would have to do a TOTAL rewrite of the existing code as there is NO Mac-compatible code that exists within SoFo products. They'd be starting from scratch...so why spend millions...just go ahead and start from scratch for free. The code is totally based and optimized around Windows OS'. It'll be Microsoft or some company out of left-field that NO-ONE but SoFo knows about(and they ain't talkin'). |
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Subject:RE: AND let's hope it's not APPLE!
Reply by: Maruuk
Date:12/22/2002 5:25:11 PM
The code, especially 4.0 code, is less valuable than the brand/franchise and interface with its loyal community behind it. Plus Apple has been flirting with going to Intel chips allowing a dual OS. Still, be pretty goofy. Might even be some big Euro or Japanese outfit which would drop the suite into a subsidiary. But whoever gets it, watch for an infusion of their corporate culture into the product, whatever it may be. |
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Subject:RE: AND let's hope it's not APPLE!
Reply by: jam
Date:12/22/2002 5:46:56 PM
Apple ? what stange Idea! Microsoft? what a terrible idea! pleae, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, products are buggy enough... sorry to say that, but M$ is only good to make more $, not better products. With them, The better you have in GUI, the worst nightmares you get to make them work like *you* want! The very last important thing: trust into SoFo Team which offer the best for their customers. Regards, jam |
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Subject:RE: AND let's hope it's not APPLE!
Reply by: groovewerx
Date:12/23/2002 12:47:55 AM
with all that said, do you think we'll get an update for acid music? |
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Subject:RE: AND let's hope it's not APPLE!
Reply by: Maruuk
Date:12/23/2002 1:07:04 AM
I think we're safe from the Gates of Hell if only because the very nature of Acid, at least in the 3.0 revs, runs counter to everything the Dorks of Redmond stand for: bizarre, unintuitive interface, shipping product unfinished, endless patching to fix what should have been working in the first place, high prices, paid support. To them, Acid is some kind of Commie plot. The biggest danger to Acid is to fall into the Broderbund trap. There was a company of quality and integrity which got sold down the river by their indifferent president to the Learning Company, which acted as a kind of sleazy liquidator of Broder's product line, eviscerating years of respected products by dumping them into Costcos at cut rates to turn a quick buck. Think about it--Buinevicius needs cash fast and he's not going to be that particular where it comes from. What does he care what the new owner does with Acid? In fact, I'm renewing my Costco membership tomorrow in anticipation of the Ronco Audio Fun Acid, Forge Vegas bundle for $29 with a $20 mail-in rebate to the Ken Lay Fulfillment Corp. |
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Subject:RE: Oh God, pleez don't let it be Microsoft!!!
Reply by: analoguekid
Date:12/23/2002 3:41:47 AM
You're always such a ray of sunshine in a bleak, bleak, world... |
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Subject:RE: AND let's hope it's not APPLE!
Reply by: dkistner
Date:12/23/2002 10:20:29 AM
Jam, I agree with you on M$! Some of their products that I do not use (like Access, I've heard it said) are great, very stable, forward-thinking, well developed. But the ones I do use...urg. And it seems some really good programs get washed out. In fact, I think sometimes very good programs are acquired specifically so they can get washed out and rendered completely uncompetitive. Let's hope that doesn't happen with SoFo's stuff. |
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Subject:RE: Oh God, pleez don't let it be Microsoft!!!
Reply by: aress
Date:12/23/2002 10:40:57 AM
you guys might not remember a company called OPCODE... wrote some of the most original music software in the 80's....in fact many of their ideas are still being used, including the SF stuff... the company had a cash problem, and GIBSON came in and bought it. within 1 year the company was dead. no support, no updates, everyone fired... i fear this is the end also of this company. rivas is more interested in goverment contracts....much better to deal the the goverment than 14 year olds cracking and giving out the software... |
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Subject:RE: Verdict so far... not great, but...
Reply by: SHTUNOT
Date:12/23/2002 12:54:33 PM
---At least Peter has the manliness to just slink away without being a poor sport-- No actually the truth is we ALL told peter to ignore you and leave you to us. He would be wasting his time argueing with you instead of getting work done on acid...Thanks peter. --Now that it's all been fully documented and come to pass, exactly as I laid out, you STILL can't handle the Truth-- Are you seriously implying that myself and others here don't have the brainpower to put 2+2 together to figure out what was going on in the tech industry? As if none of us read a newspaper or watch the news? Didn't you talk about how solid steinberg as a company was as a example of how weak sofo is? Guess what dude steinberg just got bought out by a even worse company called "pinnacle". I really feel sorry for them. Can anybody say "lack of tech support". It was bad to begin with but now... --The code, especially 4.0 code, is less valuable than the brand/franchise and interface with its loyal community behind it--Some of the stupidest things I've ever heard you say are just coming up in this thread alone. WOW. Have you even tried 4.0b? Lets keep our fingers crossed that whomever gets this execllent line of products does so with the intent of furthering the product in the same manner sofo did early on before this whole dilema took place. My $10 says M-Audio will bite to add to its line of apps like Ableton. It seems that they've branched out in so many directions like soundcards,mics,preamps,audio software,etc...that getting sofo's A/V line would put them in line to compete with the likes of avid/protools. Its just that we won't be able to use any of this great upgrades for just $99. Start saving. Ed. |
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Subject:RE: AND let's hope it's not APPLE!
Reply by: waynegee
Date:12/23/2002 3:35:27 PM
Maruuk, that is so funny...I hope that ain't the future but you are right: they need cash and they don't care where they get it! Here's a thought: I wonder if Chris M and co.have any dibs on patents, technology contained within, etc.? You know he/they could always start something. Just an idea. |
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Subject:RE: Verdict so far... not great, but...
Reply by: SHTUNOT
Date:12/24/2002 12:28:34 AM
--they need cash and they don't care where they get it!-- I have to disagree. From reading other posts from spot and others the fate of these products will not be just sold off to someone that would just waste everyones time. Look at this post from spot that I got from the creative cow forums... <Vegas will be in good hands, and besides, we don't even know SOFO is going to sell tools or not. I just can't go along with the fearful speculations out there. No one knows what's up except for maybe 3-4 people at top managment at SOFO. Scary time, but SOFO has been there before, just like loads of companies. The tools will NOT go to someone irresponsible, that much I know. I know the CTO too well. He'd never let that happen. A more honest, hardworking person never lived. (he's kinda short on people skills, but AMAZING when it comes to moral, integrous, and technical issues)> Here is a great post from Dave Nicholson from Steinberg. If anything I think sofo will take steinbergs lead and do the same. It just makes sense to partner than to just get rid of a entire a/v line...Read it here... http://sound-on-sound2.infopop.net/2/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=215094572&f=884099644&m=2423060096 Here is a response to that article that I think makes a good point as to why it would be tragic if sofo would sell the a/v line, read JohnnyRoy's response 6 posts down... http://www.sonicfoundry.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=144002&Replies=5&Page=1 My .02cents. Happy Holidays. Ed. |
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Subject:RE: Oh God, pleez don't let it be Microsoft!!!
Reply by: PHATDRUMS
Date:12/31/2002 2:13:35 PM
if some one buys this stock i hope that it is company that that has vision big enough to bring in a whole new set of developers because those at sf have obviously reached the endstops of their knowledge, the bubble has burst on their little cocoon and theyll have to come into the light and see just how quickly things move on in the real world 4b really isnt that big an improvement on 4a a few less bugs maybe but still bad design and for that the stock market salutes you have a happy new year |
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Subject:RE: Oh God, pleez don't let it be Microsoft!!!
Reply by: WT
Date:12/31/2002 5:48:07 PM
Phat - did you actually deliberately try to cram every cliche you could think of into your post? lol Happy New Year and Cheers, WT |
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Subject:RE: Oh God, pleez don't let it be Microsoft!!!
Reply by: PHATDRUMS
Date:1/1/2003 9:13:04 AM
end of year cliche fest, sorry about that wt just the end of year rant all in all a bit of a dissapointing year really .after calling an audio prog vegas video 3 last year i didnt think sf could top that but surpass it they did in marvellous style acid turkey 4(well it is xmas) 4a and 4b everyone a winner fantastic. still i have heard mattel are interested in the sf product line, but some late news in in from nasdaq insider Maruuk confirms sf are expecting a late bid from toys r us providing sf staff promise to keep up with the other mothers and fathers in the in the parent races on school sports occasions ! may the new year bring you lots happinness some great music and most all some good code! a very happy new year to all concerned xxxxx |