Subject:ASIO DOES NOT WORK IN ACID PRO 4.0 !!!

Posted by: coolout

Date:11/24/2002 9:41:40 PM

there...i said it and i wish someone would prove me wrong.

i've documented my trials and tribulations on this forum since Acid Pro 4.0 came out. i tried different settings, interfaces, and even different computers, but i can not get acceptable asio latency with acid 4.0a.

tech support has been no help in this matter.


a quick background:

setup A: old 500mhz celeron, 512mb sdram, 10gig 7200rpm boot/60gig 7200rpm audio harddrive, win98se tweaked to perfection.

worked great with acid pro 3.0 but it couldn't handle the increased cpu overhead from 4.0 so i moved to...

setup B; Pentium 4 1.8ghz, 512mb ddr sdram, 20gig 7200rpm boot/80 gig 7200rpm audio harddrive, winXP home SP1 TWEAKED TO PERFECTION.

audio interfaces: ego-sys u2a, edirol ua-1a, terratec ewx 24/96


my main usb audio interface (ego-sys u2a) asio contol panel never agreed with the audio setting panel in acid (the panel would say one latency value and the acid would say something totally different).

sonic foundry tech support says it's my settings and the author of the driver(propagamma) says they have not tested acid pro for asio use.

so i went out and got a good deal on a another audio interface (terratec).

i installed it and like magic the control panel latency values (asio and acid) match up exactly...

but now i get even more latency!!! it won't except anything under 23-30ms without pops and crackles.

hell, i can get 25ms with the microsoft sound mapper with no pops

on top of that the asio drivers work perfectly with logic audio, reason, and orion pro on the same machine. i never have to change or tweak the asio driver when using soft synths or recording in the other programs...they just work...in acid it just plain doesn't.


if any one has had success in using asio as a "set once and forget about it" with acid pro 4.0a please list your interface here.

Subject:RE: ASIO DOES NOT WORK IN ACID PRO 4.0 !!!

Reply by: Laurence

Date:11/25/2002 12:40:14 AM

I've had rock solid performance with both the Edirol SD-90 and the new Edirol UA-700. On the other hand, I can't get my Egosys U2A or Tascam 428 to work no matter what I try.

Laurence Kingston

Subject:RE: ASIO DOES NOT WORK IN ACID PRO 4.0 !!!

Reply by: xxFT13xx

Date:11/25/2002 1:44:22 AM

im using Acid 4.0a as well as a Terratec EWX 24/96 card.

im using 800 samples/buffer with the ASIO driver and i NEVER had a single problem with ANY program i use.

it must be some other hardware causing it. possibly your motherboard.

what kind of Mobo/CPU/Ram do you have?

-Sin

Subject:RE: ASIO DOES NOT WORK IN ACID PRO 4.0 !!!

Reply by: slcrz

Date:11/25/2002 5:31:54 AM

I'd like to know if
U people thinking that ASIO is "Rock solid" in Acid4.0a
are using Acid with more than 5 tracks with FX.

If u would,u'd know that U can't use Asio in acid without getting Cracks or Crashing the aPP - TRy Running 30 little tracks with 2 or 3 FX (from Waves for Ex.)and 2 or 3 SoftSynth (from N I ),and try to get the 5 MS latency I'm able to get in Cubase SX,

If u can,U have a special Timewarpanticrashsupastable version that we won't get before 8 month...

Subject:RE: ASIO DOES NOT WORK IN ACID PRO 4.0 !!!

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:11/25/2002 9:33:04 AM

Both my M-Audio Audiophile 2496 and M-Audio USB Duo work fine as well. (Using the beta Delta ASIO drivers for the Audiophile, as there was an initial issue with ACID 4.0 and the presently supported Delta drivers.)

I usually have to increase the buffer to about 34 ms or so with a busy, 29-30 track project with some FX and a couple One-shot tracks. Other than that, it's pretty solid. (My system's a PIII 800EB MHz w/384 MB PC133 SDRAM.)

Iacobus

Subject:RE: ASIO DOES NOT WORK IN ACID PRO 4.0 !!!

Reply by: Polaris20

Date:11/25/2002 10:19:53 AM

I previously had bitched and moaned at great length about how unstable A4 was while using ASIO and recording.

But last week I installed a new CPU, and now I can't fuck it up. It seems the only thing SF is guilty of is vastly underwhelming it's CPU requirements.

So far (knock on wood) it's doing fine.

Athlon 1800XP
512mb SDRAM PC133
(2) 40gig 7200rpm
Echo Mia
Win2kPro

Subject:RE: ASIO DOES NOT WORK IN ACID PRO 4.0 !!!

Reply by: coolout

Date:11/25/2002 5:13:41 PM

thanks guys for your input, keep it coming...

sin, i don't think it's my motherboard or chipset at all. i'm not having asio problems "across the board"...only with AP 4.0a. logic nor orion turn into rice crispies (snap, crackle, pop) like acid pro does.


but here's some more specs:

dell 4500 minitower

pentium 4 1.8ghz 400fsb

chipset: 845E

512mb ddr sdram

video card: 32mb ATI rage 128 ultra

audio interfaces: terratec ewx 24/96, ego-sys (esi) u2a, edirol ua-1a


hopefully sonic foundry is secretly trying to improve the asio implementation in acid pro and we'll see it in 4.0b, because right now it's not usable for many paying customers.

if your system is tweaked and you know the limitations of your cpu overhead, ram, and hard drive, asio should be a "set once and forget about it" thing. users shouldn't have to keep switching between drivers for different phases of the creative process.

all i ask is for it to work at least as good as reason, logic, or orion on my system.

Subject:RE: ASIO DOES NOT WORK IN ACID PRO 4.0 !!!

Reply by: PHATDRUMS

Date:11/25/2002 6:27:26 PM

it wont happen coolout logic is a pro app acid 4 is only called a pro app there is a big difference they just dont like it being pointed out

Subject:RE: ASIO DOES NOT WORK IN ACID PRO 4.0 !!!

Reply by: coolout

Date:11/25/2002 7:49:48 PM

PHATDRUMS- thanks for the support but i have to say i disagree. acid is as much a pro app as any other. it totally changed my style of production and made me much more effective. things that would take a day to do in logic take less than an hour in acid pro.

we just have to hold sonic foundry accountable and keep expectations high. i expect acid pro 4.0 to deliver on asio and soft synths, and i'm now certain that it's not my setup.

where's 4.0b...i want it now!!!

Subject:RE: ASIO DOES NOT WORK IN ACID PRO 4.0 !!!

Reply by: PHATDRUMS

Date:11/26/2002 6:05:02 PM

isee your view but where is the stable asio that exists in other apps soft synth implementation is comic and you really must see beyond the fact that it is a good looper (it is ) but a pro package mmmm serious music retailers dont think so and this latest incarnation and long delays on a decent update that could change this view have been a long time coming bargin bin is its status at the mo and thats if they stock it
it should be great but it is badly designed and implemented i and others expected more, working would have been nice but for poor implementation
and bad design there is no excuse.
buy a new pc it breaks down and best buy takes three months with no acknowledgements and still no news how do you feel ?
why make excuses sf read these forums have you seen anyone being contrite for the delay could you go to work and not perform to your managements standards for three months and still be in work? there is no apology for a bad unfinished un beta tested release no apology for being unable to fix what was obviously a prog too flawed to release and no apology for any delay or a projected release soon soon for three months is no answer
very professional very indeed

Subject:RE: ASIO DOES NOT WORK IN ACID PRO 4.0 !!!

Reply by: coolout

Date:11/26/2002 10:27:34 PM

phatdrums-i think it's that type of attitude that keeps SF from addressing these issues better.

i personally thought acid was a joke until i used acid pro 3.0. i equated it with mixman or some other type of "toy looper" program. once i realized the power that it holds i felt like i had the secret weapon no one really knew about. it's really the most intuitive and powerful tool for editing and arranging any kind of audio...not just loops.

i've used it for everything from just arranging samples, to making remixes and edits for clubs and radio, to recording and producing guitar/vocalists.

the vsti/asio implementation aside from multichannel recording and a possible traditional channel mixer page seemed to be the missing link in acid becoming my secret all-in-one super app, but with the horrible asio performance though i'd rather have rewire and just sequence my vsti and record from logic.

whoa! i just realized something...that's why all those guys kept b*tchin and moaning about rewire.

if acid had rewire then that negates the need for all the other new features: surround, asio, vsti, midi/opt...hell i wouldn't even need this damn vst wrapper.

i wonder why they didn't do that?

i guess from a marketing and design standpoint they want acid pro to be a their flagship standalone app, instead of an accessory to a traditional midi/audio sequencer. that makes sense, but they should at least gave us the option: what if we love acid pro for audio but not for midi, vsti, or surround.

i don't want to keep streaming wav files back and forth between apps.

it's kind of like protools hardware being used with other software, if you don't like protools for other things besides recording and mixing you can still use the audio interface. another example: fruityloops or reaktor being used as vsti.

the point is you have options.

if someone from sonic foundry would just post a down-to-earth response saying: hey we're tightening up the asio implementation and vsti support as we speak, there’s loads of new opt plugins in development and we're gonna give them to you for free, and we're still thinking about rewire. we know 4.0 came out a little too early and we also grossly understated the system requirements...thats all our bad...but stick with us and we'll fix it all soon.

that would make a great early christmas present...

but i'll settle for 4.0b

Subject:RE: ASIO DOES NOT WORK IN ACID PRO 4.0 !!!

Reply by: SHTUNOT

Date:11/27/2002 12:17:38 AM

Coolout...

The biggest reason for not including rewire from what I can tell is the old CPU/bandwidth issue. Follow me on this one.

In one of your acid projects how much "cpu" are you up to? Now take into the account how much more would be used to sync up acid to sonar/cubase/etc... How much do you have left for anything else? IE:audio effects,system stability,etc...Not much huh. If any at all. We are then back to "printing the audio"...ie: bouncing the midi to audio+exporting your final loops to whichever app you enjoy mixing in. [Mine is vegas but sonar is growing on me].

I guess they looked at adding rewire as almost forcing all of us to shell out $3000 for a new dual processing system w/scsi HD just to run a project like that smoothly plus with enough headroom to have some audio effects running at the same "real time" ;)

Reason has a option in its preference page to put a limit on the amount of cpu allocated to it. IOW if you set it at 80% it will cut you off so that there is enough for other tasks plus to help make sure it doesn't crash on you. I've been able to hit that mark quite easily.

People complain about how the minimum cpu requirements are a bit too low and how much more resources it takes to run acid pro 4...well can you imagine the crying that would commence when these same people find out how much more it would have been with rewire?

OPT is brand new with all the room to grow. I'm sure that there are a few companies that see the major profitability in making a great OPT midi plugin. If sofo spent alot of resources on improving their piano roll editor,etc... then it would be less of an incentive for other to jump in I guess.

Though I do agree that the vsti implementation isn't what I expected. And the asio protocol needs tweaking...Just don't forget how long it took cubase to get it right...and THEY developed it!!!

Just hang in there and we'll all get what we want in do time.

Subject:RE: ASIO DOES NOT WORK IN ACID PRO 4.0 !!!

Reply by: coolout

Date:11/30/2002 4:07:48 AM

actually right now my average project is running about 20-30 tracks and with eq, compressors and about 4 waves plugins.

my cpu usage is about 60%.

thats more than than enough room to run a midi sequencer and a soft synth.

this is all on a 1.8ghz P4 that cost me about $500 bucks on ebay.

cpu bandwith is not a good excuse.

if they had just took 3.0g and added rewire everyone would have been happy.

i still can't tell how the new audio engine is so much better. it just doesn't sound any better to me. can someone qualify that statment?

it just seems to me that not utilizing rewire was as much a marketing issue as a design issue.

Subject:RE: ASIO DOES NOT WORK IN ACID PRO 4.0 !!!

Reply by: skip_tracer

Date:12/1/2002 1:25:44 PM

I am having the same exact problem.
Computer Specs:

1.4 gig AMD athlon XP
256mb DDR ram
20 gig hd
ECS K7S5A motherboard with 266 bus
SoundBlaster AUdigy Platinum
Win XP

The ASIO does not work and when applied says "ASIO does not support the current sample rate". Does that mean that ACID only supports 44.1 and ASIO is 48?

Subject:RE: ASIO DOES NOT WORK IN ACID PRO 4.0 !!!

Reply by: skip_tracer

Date:12/1/2002 1:28:46 PM

AND the reason i'm trying to use ASIO is hopefully so that it clears up all the skip and pop problems during playback. When i view the task manager when playing back, the CPU goes up to 90-100%. Do i need more ram or a better cpu?! 1.4 isn't that low. Is my crappy SoundBlaster not a good enough card?

Subject:RE: ASIO DOES NOT WORK IN ACID PRO 4.0 !!!

Reply by: skip_tracer

Date:12/1/2002 1:33:46 PM

AND once again: my computer is known to overheat untill the CPU cooler is replaced (www.smksuperstore.com) so i think that my CPU over load may be linked to that.

Subject:RE: ASIO DOES NOT WORK IN ACID PRO 4.0 !!!

Reply by: SonyNateM

Date:12/2/2002 11:57:59 AM

The error that you get suggests that the project bit depth and sampling rate selected in your project's properties (File>Properties>Audio) is not compatible with the supported bit depths and sampling rates for your ASIO driver. Simply change the project to use a bit depth and sampling rate that is compatible with your card's driver.

Nate

Subject:RE: ASIO DOES NOT WORK IN ACID PRO 4.0 !!!

Reply by: Laurence

Date:12/2/2002 8:35:29 PM

Audigys only work at 48k. Acid works fine at 48k with an audigy, even with 44k samples. You can still render at 44k to burn to CD.

Laurence Kingston