Announcing DVFilm Maker for DVX100 24P and VV3

mvb wrote on 11/5/2002, 12:03 PM
SF asked me to make an announcement here, that DVFilm is offering a solution for editing Panansonic AG-DVX100 24P material on Vegas Video 3.

More information can be found here: DVFilm Maker for DVX100

Maker is not a plug-in for VV3 but a stand-alone application that works well with many video editors but was also recently tested for compatibility with VV3.

The process is as follows: you shoot with the DVX100 in Advanced 24P mode with the "thin" horizontal line setting for best resolution. The footage is captured with VV3 and rendered as a DV-AVI movie. Then it is opened with DVFilm Maker which detects and strips out the extra frames added by the camera. A true 24P Quicktime is generated, without recompression or loss of quality. It can then be imported into VV3 for editing in a 24.000 or 23.976 fps timeline.

For recording back to tape, DVFilm Maker is used again to convert back to NTSC from your edited Quicktime. VV3 will also convert 24P to NTSC, but with DVFilm Maker there are some built-in filters to de-flicker the image (for best vewing results on an interlaced monitor) and add optional grain and red layer enhancement for simulated film appearance.

There are more details on the processing steps here:www.dvfilm.com/maker/24P.htm


Comments

db wrote on 11/7/2002, 10:59 AM
"The footage is captured with VV3 and rendered as a DV-AVI movie"

1) i find the "and rendered as a DV -AVI movie ?? confusing .. when it is captured isn't it already a DV avi file ? when i see Render i think "RENDER AS" and then i choose ...


"A true 24P Quicktime is generated, without recompression or loss of quality.

2) so at this point ( on capture) is the only difference between a QT and DV avi the headers on the clip ? basicaaly does it just remove the 1 frame and put a different header on the clip ?
SonyEPM wrote on 11/7/2002, 11:18 AM
Clarification:

The footage is captured with VV3 as a DV .avi. Then it is opened with DVFilm Maker which detects and strips out the extra frames added by the camera. An uncompressed 24P Quicktime file is generated during this process. It can then be imported into VV3 for editing in a 24.000 or 23.976 fps timeline.
Cheesehole wrote on 11/21/2002, 5:28 PM
>>>An uncompressed 24P Quicktime file is generated during this process.

I'm confused about that point. it was my understanding from reading their page that a 24P DV Quicktime file is generated. is that correct? uncompressed would be hard to work with so I'm really interested...

I'm also confused about another point. What do you render to from Vegas? I'm guessing that no matter what you render to, the frames will be recompressed, or can Vegas render back to a Quicktime DV at 24p without recompression, assuming no effects were applied?

I'm looking for the DV to DV advantage here but in 24P.
astral_supreme wrote on 11/22/2002, 5:48 AM
"The footage is captured with VV3 and rendered as a DV-AVI movie. Then it is opened with DVFilm Maker which detects and strips out the extra frames added by the camera. A true 24P Quicktime is generated, without recompression or loss of quality"

Two important questions to be answered from the quote above.

The footage being captured in vegas video will have "extra" black frames mentioned in another post. So when you capture the 24p60i into vegas I think these extra frames would "ruin" the 24p60i cadence from the original footage. Does this sound right?(just dont forget to remove them manually :)?

And finally after you have the 24p60i with the unwanted "extra black frames" that vegas "may" be adding....Dvfilmaker only "strips out the extra frames added by the camera"...not the extra black frames added by vegas video 3.0c. Does this sound right?

Can somebody with a Panasonic dvx100 and dvfilmaker and vegas test this? I know from the other forum there was alot of unwanted extra black frames and I think if this process was to really work properly...you would half to strip the extra black frames from vegas timeline before exporting to dvfilmaker for this to work.

At this moment I have been researching the Panasonic Dvx100 24p capability with Dvfilmaker and vegas video 3.0c and Have not yet purchased this camera for "minor" reasons still being researched.
Cheesehole wrote on 11/22/2002, 1:25 PM
>>>The footage being captured in vegas video will have "extra" black frames mentioned in another post.

First I've heard of it, can you point to the post? it doesn't make sense to me that there would be black frames in the captured video. Vegas captures DV video via firewire. the camera doesn't add any black frames so there shouldn't be any.

I'm also doing research on this issue and would love to know where they are discussing this black frame issue... thx :)
SonyDennis wrote on 11/23/2002, 6:25 PM
I agree, there are no black frames anywhere to talk about.
///d@
astral_supreme wrote on 11/24/2002, 3:18 AM
How avoid black/blank frames?
Posted by: FrankM (Ignore This User)
Date: 11/16/2002 1:32:37 PM



There is a huge thread in this forum mentioned above with over 30 replies that talks about the extra black frames. I am wondering if they are only added if you cut and edit, But possibly they could be added at time of capture..I am unsure but read this thread "how avoid black/blank frames" then please try to answer my original question if it would effect the conversion.

Cheeshole...I am researching 3 hours a night on the panasonic ag dvx 100 abilities and If you have questions I can probally point you to some good websites/ forums that discuss this camera.

There is one forum in particular that mentions the use of this camera with dv filmaker and suprisingly the Dvfilm's company in this forum mention not to shoot progressive....but interlaced. In the end all depends on the results of the anamorphic adapter that hasn't come out yet. It will be the biggest factor of this cameras ability to make quality film for theaters.

EW wrote on 11/24/2002, 7:57 AM
That thread about black frames has nothing to do with captured DVX100 24P footage, it is an issue with Vegas in general. I too have arbitrarily run across the black frames problem, though not nearly as frequently as some in that thread. For me, maybe once or twice in a 2 hour project, and ONLY between edits, NEVER in native captured clips.
astral_supreme wrote on 11/25/2002, 1:49 AM
I am just worried about these frames in the long run.

I will capture to vegas...and if the capture dont have these frames thats awesome. However after I capture to vegas i will export to dvfilmaker and change to true 24p. Then from dvfilm back to vegas to add special effects, titles, etc all in true 24p.

From cutting the video and editing and adding effects I am sure these black frames may appear as mentioned in the forum. I am worried that even one of these extra frames will easily ruin the true 24p sequence and throw everything out of order.

I am only theorizing tho...cause I havent bought the camera yet..not untill I am sure the process can be done.
EW wrote on 11/25/2002, 7:20 AM
I see your point. But, the black frames will ruin any video, not just 24p material. Fortunately, for me, I have always been able to spot the frames on the timeline and remove them, usually by zooming in, then dragging the clip a few frames to the left, then back to the edit point. Sometimes I have to do this with the clip on both sides of the edit, and occasionally, I have to lose a frame at the end of clip A and add a frame to the front of clip B to remove the "black frame." It is a pain, and hopefully SoFo will be able to repro this and fix it. But for me, it only occurs once or twice in a project. I think it might have to do with interlaced fields, which I believe do NOT show on the timeline per se, only "whole" frames.
Cheesehole wrote on 11/25/2002, 9:34 AM
>>>Cheeshole...I am researching 3 hours a night on the panasonic ag dvx 100 abilities and If you have questions I can probally point you to some good websites/ forums that discuss this camera.

Thanks. I friend of mine has one. I am trying to help get him up and running with 24p editing in Vegas. My only question has to do with this Quicktime 24p DV format.

Is the QT 24p file in fact DV? Can DV FilmMaker convert the camera's 24p footage to Quicktime 24p footage in DV without recompression?

and Can Vegas then render back to Quicktime 24p DV? Can it do that without recompressing the non-effected parts of the video? I'm looking to get through the whole process with no recompression, and stay in the DV format.

Thanks!
mvb wrote on 11/27/2002, 11:21 PM
"Is the QT 24p file in fact DV?"

It's a 24P (or 23.976P) QuickTime using the DV-NTSC codec, yes.

"Can DV FilmMaker convert the camera's 24p footage to Quicktime 24p footage in DV without recompression?"

Yes

"and Can Vegas then render back to Quicktime 24p DV?"

Yes

"Can it do that without recompressing the non-effected parts of the video?"

Yes

Recompression of frames only takes place if you apply dissolves, color correction or other effects on those frames, or if you use DVFilm Maker or Vegas to convert back to NTSC.