Well, if they were incompatible, then I would expect someone to have enough look ahead knowledge to maybe come up with a different file extension for CDA 5 instead of a standard .CDP which was used for 4.0. How am I suppose to tell the difference between a CDA 5.0 and a CDA 4.0 file which are both stored on my hard drive? I can't they're both .CDP. Just like a .BMP and a .WAV are standards formats and are able to be opened by applications that say they support them. I would hope, if anyone, a programmer would be able to recognize this obvious flaw.

If a client calls me and says they have a CD architect .CDP file and Vegas 3.0 is suppose to open .CDP files I shouldn't have to ask them if it's a .CDP file v4.0 or v5.0. I should feel comfortable enough to say "Yes" I can open that file with the version of Vegas I'm running because it has the ability to open .CDP files. If that is not possible, then CDA 5.0 better have an export to .VEG that is compatible with Vegas 3.0. If you are failing to see the point of this, then you guys better be prepared to answer a bunch of lashing out of Vegas 3.0 users that decide not to upgrade to Vegas 4.0.

Vegas 3 opens the CDP files that were standard and DEFINED at the time it was created.

What happens if you try to load a veg file from Vegas 3 in Vegas 1 or 2?
Wrong version error.

What if your client is using Vegas 4 and you are using Vegas 3? I bet you would ask then what version of Vegas they are using?

Yes, you should be expected to ask them what version, since that is what your tools' requires you to know. If you claim CDA support, then to be fully compatible, you must be CDA5 capable.

How would having a different file extension clear this up for you and your client?

They would say CDA, and you would then ask:

"Does the file have a CDP or CDP5 extension. You client says "what's an extension?"

Of course, you could just ask:

"what version of CDA are you using?"

WAVE and BMP are industry standards that are meant to have a level of static capabilties. There is no promise that a wave editor can load a newly define Wave Format file header though. An app that renders a wave file using WaveFormatExtensible would generate a Wave file that would not be supported under an earlier version of the same app that didn't support Wave Format Extensible. Both files have WAV as an extension. If there is a means to render to a simple WAV format, the app could, but to maintain the data contained in the new format, the new format must be rendered.

Veg and CDP files are product formats. We always maintain backward compatability, as it is reasonable to do so. To expect regressive compatabilty is not reasonable as data would be lost in the translation.

The point is that CDA5 is a new product, with capabilities beyond Vegas 3. To expect an regressive path is not reasonable if data is lost in the translation.

It could be reasonable for Vegas 4 to support of CDA5 files. To force CDA5 to render a backward compatable file where data would be lost is not reasonable.

Peter

You make some good points and was pretty much what I expected.

"The point is that CDA5 is a new product, with capabilities beyond Vegas 3. To expect an regressive path is not reasonable if data is lost in the translation."

You fail to make your point here. To state this is to say OMF files are also a regressive path and not reasonable, but somehow a lot of users like this idea of being able to transfer the majority of the data between different similar apps, be it version or program. I guess I would be naive then to assume that maybe Sonic Foundry would have some insight like Digidesign to know that everyone doesn't use the same app to do their CD authoring and would allow users to share projects and be able to go to different studios to get their work done. What's worse yet, is that you have total control of both of these apps and the file saving formats available in each and can't take advantage of it. Isn't this what Protools did with SDII file format? Sound Designer existed before Protools, but Digidesign had the insight to make a "regressive path" back to Sound Designer from Protools. So isn't some data lost in the transfer when saving to an OMF file? Yes!! Do users expect this? Yes!! Do users still like this ability because it gives them the freedom to work at different locations, yet still retaining MOST of the information??? Well according to you it is "not reasonable". So we can expect an ongoing incompatibility between Vegas and CDA, so that when CDA 6 comes out it won't work again with Vegas 4.

Things that make you go HMMMMM?
Red

Im surprised, all those years of working on tape, and you didnt know Vegas 3 cant open cd arch 5 files?

I'm not the one with SMPTE problems....I know how to use my system. This thread is much too high of an intelligence conversation for you to understand, go back to monitoring with a Y chord and stay out of this thread. and I didn't say "I didn't know." but I know you would hard time understanding the print that's on this page to realize that.

Your OMF example is a partly on point. The loss of information between a native format and a portable format is debateable as far as usefulness goes. The more important aspect is to move the media and basic edits vs recreating all the edits from one host to another.

Still, I think that the expectation of regressive rendering where data will be lost between a new version to an old version will cause more problems than it is worth.

I will make sure it is discussed, but I would not expect this feature in CDA5. I would guess that your prediction of doom and gloom is extreme, and that the majority of users would not find this a requirment.

I can't predict the future. If the demand is great that there is a regressive compatability between versions, then we would have to look at the resources to develope such a feature vs the demand. CDA5 is our new CD Mastering tool. Whether or not Vegas X continues to stay on pace with CDA X as far as features go, remains to be seen.

Peter

Thanks Peter,
I guess there's been a change of philosophy somewhere down the Sonic Foundry development process. The copy of Sound Forge 4.5 on my system still has the "Open and Save with Sound Forge 3.0 compatible regions" check box in the Preferences>File window.

As a side note, I would hope that the CD architect features within Vegas continue to get developed. This was an option that I was always hoping for, to have CD architect abilities within a Multi-track environment. Seeing CD architect coming back is nice, but I've moved onto Vegas for my mastering/assembly needs due to not being limited to a 2 track environment. If CD architect means no futher developement in the Vegas Redbook CD editing features, I hope CDA 5.0 dies a short lived life.

> I would hope that the CD architect features within Vegas continue to get developed.

I'll second that. I don't think it's putting it too strongly to say that Vegas Video 3.0 was marketed as the successor to CD Architect 4.0 (the upgrade path is still on offer) and I wouldn't be pleased if most of the improvements made in CDA 5.0 don't make their way into a future version of Vegas.

I have to say there are only so many variants of the fundamental (wholly admirable) Sonic Foundry user interface and audio engine one can tolerate before one starts to feel one is possibly being ripped off. The situation has been compounded lately by the order of releases: should one take advantage of introductory offers and buy ACID 4.0 for the MIDI facilities or forego the discounts in the hope that they'll make it into Vegas? Should one forego the upgrade to CDA 5.0 in the expectation that Sonic Foundry surely wouldn't be provocative enough to omit the new developments from Vegas 4.0?

<<Should one forego the upgrade to CDA 5.0 in the expectation that Sonic Foundry surely wouldn't be provocative enough to omit the new developments from Vegas 4.0?>>

Actually some features won't be included in Vegas as evidently they are impractical. For an explaination, see today's comment on this by Dennis (SoFo tech) in the CDA forum. (sorry I can't provide the link). So I am planning on purchasing CDA 5.

drbam

I can't see that most of the things in Dennis' list couldn't be brought into Vegas.

I accept that they 'were able to do a much more work-flow optimized user interface in CD Architect 5' but I don't want them to get petty and exclude enhancements to Vegas simply for the sake of differentiating CDA as much as possible.

<<can't see that most of the things in Dennis' list couldn't be brought into Vegas. I accept that they 'were able to do a much more work-flow optimized user interface in CD Architect 5' but I don't want them to get petty and exclude enhancements to Vegas simply for the sake of differentiating CDA as much as possible. >>

Perhaps that's true. But many users of CDA don't use Vegas and so a stand alone app is what they are wanting. I can't imagine SoFo not continuing in that direction. Personally I prefer separate apps that interface well (like SoFo's) because it seems pretty clear that the "all in one" app approach would take away from SoFo's wonderfully intuitive UI and most likely degrade stability as well. Of course this issue has made the rounds many times here so I'll let it go at that. ;-)


drbam

I actually agree with the seperate but equal apps mentality, but that's just my preference of working and many will disagree and desire the UBER program. To each his own. What I don't want to see is that the CD architect features that where originally in CDA 4.0 not get implemented into Vegas. A simple print PQ list option is what I'm referring too, CD emulation transport and a button to "burn Disk-at-once CD". These are very minor annoyances because there are work arounds. Here is a past discussion from other users and the features they where missing from CDA 4.0.

http://www.sonicfoundry.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=19&MessageID=106828.

I will keep working in Vegas for CD assembly as I mentioned, because it is a multitrack environment and having that option is very valuable to me. Alot of the CD's I do, are not just a simple assemble of a finished track, many artist will ask me to create seens between the tracks with Sound FX's and other talking to give the entire CD a type of theme feel. Try a simple task of overlapping 3 events on top of each other in CDA 5.0 and look how confusing it gets. You can't tell what you're looking at, yet alone try and do edits on each event and adjust the volumes of each, because everything is on top of each other. To actually overlap events I had to enable the automatic crossfade, slide the events over each other, then adjust the crossfade type of each event to the "[" crossfade so no volume changes occured. No option of selecting what the "default" crossfade is. It assumes I want to do an edit of the two seperate events, although what I really want to do is drag them on top of each other. CDA 4.0 was better than this although it did limit me to only having 2 events playing at one time. Once a third event came on top, one of the three would mute, but then came Vegas and made my day.

Maybe there is a way to overlap 3 events easier in 5.0, but it isn't clear as day to me yet. It's pretty simple to do in Vegas, by just putting events on seperate tracks and adjusting the fader level of each.

Is there any hope to see an update for Vegas 3.0 ?
I would really like to be able to open my CD Architect 5 projects for generating MP3s. I have no plans to move to Vegas 4 because I only need an app for mastering.
As there are no kind of additionnal data (markers or regions) in the CDA wav file, I have no simple way to export one song from CDA to mp3 actually.

SonicErik: i'm curious to know what modification you're doing to that song in CD-Architect. Is there any reason it would be so difficult to open that song in Vegas to render to MP3? Or is there so much you are doing to it in CD-Architect that it would be difficult to redo all that work in Vegas?

So my workflow for mastering is now the following: I export my songs from Sonar in Wav 24 bits and import them into CDA. In CDA I apply my mastering effects (PSP Audioware and Ozone 2) and so I would like to make mp3s of the songs with PSP and Ozone 2 applied in addition to the burned CD.
With Vegas 3 that was easily feasible and the process was really nice.
If I could import my CDA 5 projects into Vegas, that process would be simple to do: select the song region, file/render as and that's it !

"To expect a regressive path is not reasonable if data is lost in the translation."

You're being unreasonable :-)

Im sorry but after reading this I wonder does acid 4.0b open the new .cda 5 files? Just wondering.