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Subject:Everything's Good, Except...
Posted by: SonicSounds
Date:11/12/2002 12:01:38 AM

I recently upgraded to XP Professional and love the OS. Everything runs smoother and faster. Acid Pro 4.0a runs pretty stable considering it crashed every time I pressed play back in Win 98. I've gotten the ASIO driver's latency down to 8ms. The only major problem I'm having now is crackles and stutters using the ASIO driver for playback. The song will play fine for a while and once more tracks and fx begin to process it starts to bog down. Would increasing the buffer size within the audio card software help?

I'm finally getting close to being able to start making music after a 2 month hiatus because Acid and my PC weren't cooperating. If anybody has any suggestions let me know.

PIII 733mhz
384 MB
XP Pro
Acid 4.0a
Intel board
Audiophile 2496 w/ latest drivers

Subject:RE: Everything's Good, Except...
Reply by: IanF
Date:11/12/2002 6:21:24 AM

Try optimising system performance for background services, your soundcard is a background service. Do it thru control panel > System > Advanced > Performance Options.

If you still having problems you could configure as a standard pc as opposed to ACPI this will give you slightly more control of what IRQ your sound card is using.

Havent got the link to hand but theres a link on the steinberg site that tells you how to optimise XP for audio in more detail.

Ian F

Subject:RE: Everything's Good, Except...
Reply by: salad
Date:11/12/2002 9:00:09 AM

This is just in AcidPro 4 right?
I get "some" of those symptoms w/ASIO / AP4 using this Quattro, but I felt relieved when after using a demo of performed like a champ! Even with ASIO 24 bit/48KHz.

This will all be fixed in "the B" update.....I'm sure.

Subject:RE: Everything's Good, Except...
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:11/12/2002 1:06:57 PM

Well, I think users have to remember ACID does things differently than Cubase SX does. In addition to that, I believe ACID accesses ASIO differently than other apps do. (Witness the whole Delta ASIO driver thing that M-Audio acknowledged was their fault.)

ACID 4.0's audio engine is definitely better than previous versions, including 3.0. I'd therefore guess that it would need a little more horsepower to run it. (I know that the requirements are the same as 3.0's, but that's not, as with any other app, a real world assessment. You're going to need a lot more than what they say if you want to playback a lot of tracks with FX.)

I have a very similar system and do notice the same thing with busier projects. Usually, I can get by it by increasing the buffer. If I can't, I usually bounce down a track or two that have FX so that ACID doesn't have to apply the FX on the fly.

Try checking out if you haven't done so yet. Lots of great tips there.


Subject:RE: Everything's Good, Except...
Reply by: SonicSounds
Date:11/12/2002 2:12:38 PM

The confusing thing is that when I use the Classic Windows Drivers the songs play a lot more smoothly. They aren't perfect (they weren't perfect when I made them in 3.0 either) but there's not so much stuttering and lag.

Subject:RE: Everything's Good, Except...
Reply by: noFony
Date:11/12/2002 8:57:29 PM

"The confusing thing is that when I use the Classic Windows Drivers the songs play a lot more smoothly."

Hi. Just increase your audiocard buffer a little and you'll be fine. PIII733 isn't that fast and 8ms with many tracks and effects is pushing it a bit. When you switch back and forth between ASIO and classic wave look just below and notice the buffer slider that appears and disappears...I'll bet that's set higher than 8ms for your wave driver(probably way higher)...that's why it plays more smoothly. The ASIO buffering is dependant on the setting in your souncard control panel so adjust accordingly depending on how big your project gets(track wise and effects wise).

Thats been my experience with this setup;
Dell PIII866 384ram

Subject:RE: Everything's Good, Except...
Reply by: SonicSounds
Date:11/13/2002 9:39:36 AM

The only problem I see this posing is:

If I have to set the latency too high then everytime I want to play a VSTi or record audio I'll have to shut down Acid Pro, set the latency within the audio card's software, restart Acid and then load the song again. What a pain. Is there an easier way to do this?

Is it realistic to say that I'm going to use the ASIO drivers for recording and the classic drivers for playback? That would be easier since I can do this within Acid and not have to shut it down.

P.S. Is a PIII 733 really that slow? Using Acid Pro 3.0 I was able to have tons of tracks and FX going at the same time and not really have much slow down. These same songs in Acid 4.0 are playing sluggish.

Subject:RE: Everything's Good, Except...
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:11/14/2002 2:59:35 PM

It could be that we're hitting a performance ceiling with our CPU's (I have a PIII 800EB MHz) and ACID Pro 4.0 could be exploiting that fact with its audio engine. (I actually didn't expect ACID to get better sounding but SoFo's managed to do it.)


Subject:RE: Everything's Good, Except...
Date:11/14/2002 6:23:27 PM

there you go again glorifing the great god sofo md telling all about the great sounding audio engine in a4 thats only because a3 sounded so thin and reedy compared to other apps
do you A. own other real pro apps?
B. release any successful records ?
if you do perhaps say for instance own logic 5 run a loop in logic flat no plugs eq
etc then run the same loop in a3 or 4 idare you to tell me that acid doesnt sound inferior weve done this test with many people and get the same result everytime
but then hey its just a looping app and maybe sounding good is outside its paradigm!

oh and if you dont have many or any successful records refer to above
set your standards higher you obviously dont get out much
get out there and listen

Subject:RE: Everything's Good, Except...
Reply by: SHTUNOT
Date:11/14/2002 6:57:29 PM

oh and if you dont have many or any successful records refer to above---Please list ALL your achievements before you go knocking down anyone else toughguy.

Acid is using ASIO do you think CUBASE SX SUCKS? Nuendo maybe? Its the same audio thru put. Any opinions now?

Subject:RE: Everything's Good, Except...
Date:11/15/2002 3:33:48 AM

asio in cubase works has done years
the midi also works has done for years
audio sounds ok has done for years

thanks for that big guy
i never asked him for a list just i just wondered how with so many rose tinted posts posts on sofos behalf that any work ever gets done
the man is sofo to the core he could do agreat job for them in marketing
they should give him id buy from him (imagine my dissapointment though on getting it out of box only to find out it wouldnt work)
live a little

Subject:RE: Everything's Good, Except...
Reply by: SonicSounds
Date:11/15/2002 9:53:35 AM

Actually since upgrading to Pro 4.0 I've noticed that the sound quality is better but that's most likely due to the fact that I upgraded to an M-Audio Audiophile 2496 from...get this...a Soundblaster Live. Don't get me wrong, the SB Live was good for the money but it can't compete with the Audiophile. Also, Creative customer support and driver updates are a joke.

Subject:RE: Everything's Good, Except...
Date:11/15/2002 4:01:03 PM

sonic till you do a real a /b test with a real pro app you wouldnt notice how much better one sounds than the other although a4 is better than a3 it still not the best
which questions why have they been peddelling rubbish before in a named pro app?

Subject:RE: Everything's Good, Except...
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:11/15/2002 4:11:41 PM

Tuh. Who pissed in your Wheaties, Victoria?

I have this musical deals with making what I envision real, the way I wanted it to sound in the first place. SoFo's products have empowered me in that respect. No other product has. For that, I've become appreciative and am just reciprocating back what they've given to me. But that's just me, I guess. Is that plain enough for you?

Doing it all has absolutely nothing to do with "successful records", my friend. Success is in the eye of the beholder anyway. If I can make what I envision real, that's an accomplishment no f--king gold or platinum record can touch.

BTW, I come here periodically to help out other users of ACID and Sound Forge (in that respective forum) in any small way that I can. What's wrong with that?

Last time I checked, whatever I've recorded in ACID sounds exactly the way I recorded it when played back, even when I ACIDize. *shrug*

If Logic is so Goddamned superior, then why don't you go use it and let others use what works best for them? (My apologies to Logic users. I just had to vent.)

Wow. This "argument" is so pointless I don't even know why I bother...


Subject:RE: Everything's Good, Except...
Date:11/15/2002 5:43:53 PM

vent if you must md
as for you periodically you live on here ,get real on a no of posts youve stated how good the a4 audio eng is i dont use logic all that i was saying was that a simple
a/b test would show that what youre saying is a little misleading a4 may sound better
than a3 but other apps sound better many of your posts are not objective and therefore may mislead particulary people new to acid its almost as if you are a member of some cult an unobjective apologist is no good to anyone take a step back go out more meet people who use apps that arent considered mattel like ,
it will do you good without resorting to expletives very poor show

i take it from the rest of you rant that your output musically is not that great
nevermind keep chipping away at it dont get disheartened i sure it will come good
i like acid i just want it to work and implementation of features to be as good as
the rest of it ner ner

ps you dont know me well enough to be on first name terms with me and until you do
take your critism with a pinch of salt and stop being a know all b-----rd
believe me you dont
v xxxx

Subject:RE: Everything's Good, Except...
Reply by: noFony
Date:11/16/2002 12:36:26 AM

"If I have to set the latency too high then everytime I want to play a VSTi or record audio I'll have to shut down Acid Pro, set the latency within the audio card's software, restart Acid and then load the song again. What a pain. Is there an easier way to do this?"

You don't need to shut anything down to change your audio card buffer---Options/ Preferences/Audio tab/Advanced/Configure... change buffer size.../Done/Refresh/OK/OK

Also, if your recording any live audio(not a VSTi) like guitar or vocal then latency doesn't come into play as long as you don't uncheck the box next to "automatically detect and offset for hardware recording latency" under options/prefs/audio.

ACID4 is doing abit more than ACID3 did, so it probably requires a little more processors speed.

Subject:RE: Everything's Good, Except...
Reply by: Spirit
Date:11/16/2002 7:37:31 AM

Don't worry MD, there's a lot of forum users who do appreciate all the help you given.

Subject:RE: Everything's Good, Except...
Date:11/16/2002 11:36:58 AM

thats so cute spirit have you named the wedding day yet?
i hardley think its a point to worry about its just another point of view
no tears are required or called for
i shout worse things at my pc when sf products wont run right !

Subject:RE: Everything's Good, Except...
Reply by: SonicSounds
Date:11/16/2002 10:11:16 PM

Just out of curiousity, why are you on this forum if you despise Acid? I've use many "pro" apps and must say that SoFo has done an amazing job at pure functional design. Put aside your technical gripes and look at how the program is set up. No other audio app out there is this intuitive. I've tried Logic...forget about it. Have you seen the manual for that thing? Sonar is OK but it's interface is still clumsy. Cubase tries to be user-friendly but it's got a ways to go. Nothing competes with Acid in that respect.

Where Acid falls short is in it's "pro" qualities. I think a lot of this is due to the fact that they want to keep it intuitive but introducing a lot of "pro" features complicates things.

Bag on it all you want but like mD said, "making what I envision real, the way I wanted it to sound in the first place. SoFo's products have empowered me in that respect." I feel exactly the same. I don't have to think about how to use the program.

I've talked to a lot of musicians and they all have their opinions about Acid and that's fine. When it comes down to it, Acid is more flexible to me. This one guy I know views SoFo stuff as toys. He's got all the pro gear, uses Sonar, and has all of the pricey Waves plugins and all of this junk. I've heard his stuff and it ain't that great. I know it's a matter of opinion but I'm just saying that it's not the gear you have, it's what's upstairs in the cranium that matters.

PHATDRUMS, you seem to have a definite opinion and viewpoint. I just don't see the point in you being on this forum. It seems that people like to complain because it's easy.

Subject:RE: Everything's Good, Except...
Date:11/17/2002 4:07:02 AM

at the end of the day it aint what you got its the way that you use it i guess
but as for anywhere that ive said that i dont like acid tell me where
ive said that ?i think acid could be a geat prog my problem with a4 is not
nothing to do with its features its the poor non pro (your words from above)
implementation of them. acid 4 intuitive? the looping side yes it has been for some time but the midi and half featured use of vstis is not intuitive far from it
new features dont make an app complicated poor design does
i use other so fo products and dont have any prob with that but beause i have complaints about one of their products youd rather i didnt say anything about it
your 'only nice comments in here about acid' is a very democratic way of thinking
i must say.does a different pespective over complicate things for you i should be careful when talking about craniums
you dont have to agree with what i say but you should value my right to say it
i so want /wanted a4 to be good nay great but it isnt they may or may not fix tne bugs in a4b but the basic implementation /design of the vstis midi features will probably not change till at least v5 which is sad because other apps aside from a little looping are a least two years ahead of this product
and theres still hardware controllers to add too! oh and some stability multiple vst outs sampler etc
sonicsounds ill bet

Subject:RE: Everything's Good, Except...
Reply by: SonicSounds
Date:11/17/2002 2:45:35 PM

Trust me, I've said some pretty negative things about Acid Pro. Just do a search under my username. I know I might've sounded like a sales rep for SoFo in the above message but I'm far from happy with the program.

You've never said you hated Acid but your implied comments all over this thread lead me (and I bet others) to believe you aren't exactly an avid user. We should go back to the beginning of this thread and review who started what. mD was trying to lend some advice (which is what most people hear try to do). You have every right to voice your opinion but your opinion in this thread had no purpose. I wasn't asking for feedback on SoFo's products. I was trying to find some help. Look at your post after his. Let's not throw stones here.

True, the VST implementation is a bit archaic right now. Aside from that, it's not a horrible app. You can't honestly tell me that Cubase or Logic is this easy to use. Get real. It's too bad Acid isn't viewed as professional quality among some audio snoots. In my opinion a lot of those types aren't musicians. They're gearheads. Acid has helped my creative productivity (although, at times, I've spent a lot of time trying to tweak my system so it would work properly). I feel if I had stayed using Logic, I would've still been lost at sea.

Like I said in my previous message, a buddy of mine hates Acid. He thinks it's a toy. He worships Sonar and has spent thousands upon thousands of dollars on his studio. He played a remix he has been working on and I have to say that it wasn't that great. Musically it was alright. Technically I heard nothing in that track that couldn't have been done with Acid. What's the point? If a program gets done what you need it to do then that's all you need. There's such a thing as overkill.

I realize you and I have a right to say what we want but don't cut down somebody else to do it (mD in this case). I hate to sound childish but let's look at who started this debate.

Subject:RE: Everything's Good, Except...
Date:11/17/2002 5:32:15 PM

some very true words indeed sonic i personally think sonar insnt that intuitive
cubase however came very easy to me as all my first few hits were started using notator on the atari which was pattern based and involved plenty of counting
so moving graphical blocks to arrange was as much a revelation tome then as acids arrange page is now people new to it however the midi then in notator was was far superior in 90-92 than a4 is now and people who have used midi which really is still quite essential if you are interested in making your own stuff instead of prepacked loops will look at a4 and think it is a toy archaic doesnt descibe the guffaws that i get when pro s who make their living at this see it in a4 after the debacle that was midi in a3 you would have thought sofo would have pulled out all the stops
to get it right i still cant beleive the software engineers looked at the implementation of a4s midi and vstis and thought it was ok
peter from sofo said it was functional well i had functional in 1988
and it far superseeded this shit god my tr909 in 82 had a swing function
this release wasnt just undercooked it was raw as a result users suffer and loyal users at that christ at this rate ill be able to have a4b with my cranberry sauce
on thanksgiving if its ready because bugs fixed or not its a tu---y
then again christmas is coming some and mommy might be able pick it it up cheap from
the bargain bin at toys r us
sorry if i went off base with my rants sonic but your the kind of loyal user that sofo is taking the piss out of with poor releases it could and should have been so much better how many people in here found just changing a vtsi patch a chore if not a major headache? these things are supposed to be simple,dls synth im sure its powerful
uses little cpu and stands on its had and does tricks but its an absolute dog to
use rendering all but those to whom time is not money or have a degree in manual reading usless a simple sampler would have been far better
but my point is that this is different from other sofo releases because they are known for their ease of use but parts of a4 are pure and simply bad design take away ease of use and simple (if not dated) interface and what have you got
a sooper dooper looper thats what and thats a toy and you cant change that view with bad implementation of tried and tested features .
you cant tell me its easier to draw in midi control info than record using a hardware controller oops sorry you cant do either or use hardware faders rather than a mouse oops you cant do that either see where im going other apps are not sailing
off into the distance they are flying shortly some one will come up with a plugin
that does exactly what acid does just imagine an opt acid /like plugin that works likea dream in pro tools cubase logic etc thats the end of the road for this app
all apps must adapt or die some adapt better than others this one started out in a hurry now its waiting for a bus and it could be some time

Subject:RE: Everything's Good, Except...
Reply by: SonicSounds
Date:11/17/2002 7:37:48 PM

I know this debate is destined to go nowhere, but you speak of your "hits" and such constantly throughout this thread but fail to mention who you are. I'm just curious. It's not that it matters either way if you've been successful or not but typically if you've had any professional experience you've obviously done something right and I'd hold your words in high regard.

As for Acid being antiquated, in certain respects, yes it is. In other respects it's leaps ahead of Logic and Cubase. For the most part, most people don't need an outboard mixer to automate fades and aux fx. You have far more control drawing these out onscreen. It's more tedious but more exact. It would be a nice feature but 9 out of 10 people don't use it.

I found Cubase's VST implementation a lot more clumsy. I've used both Mac and PC versions and found digging through window after window just to get to my VSTs a pain in the ass.

Ultimately I feel that Acid allows more for on-the-fly creativity. If I've got an idea it's not too hard to get it down in Acid. Other programs require a lot of energy just to get a track down. I think for what Acid lacks it makes up in other areas. Trust me, I know the limitations of the program. I'm no professional. I'm no engineer, but I've had enough experiences with a lot of different software over the years to know what's good for me and not. I'd be willing to give Cubase another run. I'm probably going to put Sonar on my machine in the next week or so and give it a second chance. But I will always use Acid somewhere in my workflow.

The one thing that makes Acid appear a toy is the prepackaged loops. Everybody and their grandma can make "music" now. Whoring out prepackaged loops is something SoFo shouldn't be proud of but feels they have to since they've marketed this product as a "loop-based music production" tool. I admit I do use a few percussive loops but ultimately end up chopping them up in the chopper to make my own rhythms. If you're into Hip-Hop or some Electronica, Acid is a great tool. If you're into live instrumentation, Acid isn't the way to go at all.

Subject:RE: Everything's Good, Except...
Reply by: backway
Date:11/18/2002 3:43:17 AM

using acid pro 3.0 and getting a glitch or little cracking noise. i've checked all my equipment. using a delta 44 sound card, amd 1 GHz, 6 Gig free, 1 Gig ram, rode mic, tube preamp (turned my input all the way down and my output is at 1 O'clock). i've increased the buffer, and i make sure to never clip. my windows sound card has been cut off. when i lay vocals i use headphones and i've tried to move the mic away from all of my equipment. i've called m-audio and that was no good.
this noise doesn't happen all the time but when it does happen the playback level is low. i'll only have about 2 clean takes out of about 8. it can even happen on a blank page on the first track. please help... please
heres a sample of what it sounds like

Subject:RE: Everything's Good, Except...
Reply by: dkistner
Date:11/18/2002 6:16:10 AM

>I know it's a matter of opinion but I'm just saying that it's not the gear you have, it's what's upstairs in the cranium that matters.<

This bears repeating. I had this massive inferiority complex when I was hanging around with musicians who were using GigaStudio. I mean, you'd think to listen to them that it was impossible to make any music at all without it. But when I went and listened to the work of some of these Gigafreaks, I was horrified at how terrible it sounded! I thought: "I don't need THAT!" Of course, I have since heard some beautiful Giga work...but it was beautiful because somebody knew how to use the tools to manifest the beautiful work in their heads.

Buying a "pro" app is no guarantee you're going to make great-sounding music. And working with a purportedly "non-pro" app is no guarantee that you're not. Still, I'd kill for a lower lower-end tempo in Acid and may be driven to have to use something else if it's not incorporated into a new release...soon.

Subject:RE: Everything's Good, Except...
Reply by: SonicSounds
Date:11/18/2002 9:51:14 AM

Wish I could help you but I've got the same problem. I've narrowed it down to me having a slower CPU. I just switch back to classic drivers if I get crackling or slowdown. I'm not sure why you would have it in recording. I had 3.0 using Win 98 SE and it ran extremely well. The only time I had trouble is if I had a ton of FX going at the same time.

I would strongly recommend upgrading to XP. After a month or so of trying to get 4.0 to work on Win 98 I gave up. I had problem after problem. Once I upgraded to XP, Acid has been running smooth. I've had VSTs and FX going with a decent amount of tracks and it plays fine. It just gets bogged down faster than 3.0 did.

Subject:RE: Everything's Good, Except...
Reply by: SonicSounds
Date:11/18/2002 9:54:29 AM

That's exactly what I'm getting at. Sometimes too many features isn't always the best route. The only time I've been blown away by a recording is when I heard this guy's recordings done in Cool Edit Pro. They were amazing. The quality of sound, the mixing...everything sounded pro. This is a case of somebody who knows what they're doing, not how pro the app was.

Subject:RE: Everything's Good, Except...
Date:11/18/2002 12:39:49 PM

cool edit pro sounds great a lot of broadcasters use it ive just received the new version and im off to play
i agree its not what you have got but the way that you use it but surely theres
no point in handicapping yourself when theres stuff that does the job well
i cant recall seeing any advertising where it says acid 4 PRO! now available
with half implemented vsti support asolutely piss poor midi and all the stability of a 40 year old carthorse have you ? but thats closer to the truth
this app is three months or so old and people are wishing for v5 and lots still cant get it up and running properly but then again neither can sonic foundry have you seen 4b?
wheres my carthorse!

Subject:RE: Everything's Good, Except...
Reply by: SonicSounds
Date:11/18/2002 1:36:03 PM

I don't know much about Cool Edit Pro but it seems more basic than Acid. It doesn't offer as much does it? Seems like the latest release is about where Acid 3.0 left off.

Subject:RE: Everything's Good, Except...
Date:11/18/2002 5:15:23 PM

real nice editor thats all sound good does what it says on the box i dont use it to
build songs though just to edit parts add voice overs etc

Subject:RE: Everything's Good, Except...
Reply by: dkistner
Date:11/21/2002 6:43:08 AM

Cool Edit Pro is from a completely different planet from Acid. It's an audio editor, and a very sophisticated and powerful one: hardly "more basic." It's in the same general category of software tools as Sound Forge. Acid's a different beast, a different tool.

Subject:RE: Everything's Good, Except...
Date:11/21/2002 12:51:53 PM

i think the word you were looking for is professional dk

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