Well, what if LA?

Gr, I think you were missing the point of my response. I wasn't saying I know the average rate of every sound engineer in North America. What I was saying is that it varies.

It's like saying "how much does an artist make?" What artist? There's as many income levels as there are artists, although most of them sit around the zero mark.

Now that you know you're looking in the LA area, you've got to do some research. I guess you can hope to find people in your target field in this forum but I would go beyond it for more results. Another forum, on Usenet, is rec.audio.pro. If you ask there, make sure you know what you're asking. You'll get flamed otherwise. Another option is to contact organizations in the LA area and start asking. Cheers, D

OK. Can it be $100K/yr?

Well, if you're independent and you are good and able to sell you stuff well, I suppose you could make 100K a year.

But then again you could make that much selling plastic flamingoes if you're independent and good and able to sell your stuff well.

My point is that it's up to you...if you're independent. But I doubt you'd get a salary position at that pay rate. Cheers, DE

DE,

thank you. I just was naive to think I could make 100K as a regular salary
on the top-rated radiostation (if I'm numba one in spot-making field).

Well, if you assume a top-rated radio station, and you are as you say "numba one" in your field, then you really wouldn't be asking the forum for how much you could make. You'd be setting a price and you'd have radio stations competing to get you. Unfortunately, it takes more to being number one than you just thinking it. They have to think it too. So if you are as good as you're suggesting, they already know how to reach you, and your phone is ringing right now with the big offers. Maybe not 100K but you never know. Good luck, DE

"thank you. I just was naive to think I could make 100K as a regular salary
on the top-rated radiostation (if I'm numba one in spot-making field)."

Being on a top-rated radiostation would have nothing to do with being a sound producer creating radio commercials. They are 2 totally different entities, Radio stations make some of "their own" commercials in house promoting their events and themselves, and the engineer does not make much money doing this....I've worked with some of them in the Top radio stations in Detroit. So maybe your assumptions are a little naive. How radio stations make their money is through advertisers that supply their commercial spots to the radio station to get broadcasted by the station. Production of these spots are done by an advertising agency, which hires a studio to record, edit and mix the spots. The spots then get sent to the "top rated radio station" via 1/4inch tape, or computer upload via the studio or a duplication company.

How do I know this you may ask? I worked as an audio engineer in a commercial production studio which also had a duplication company within the studio. It was one of the most expensive studios in Michigan. The staff of this studio consisted of about 20 engineers where salary ranges varied depending on client requests and years of experience, but I can safely say that none of the engineers made 100K/year. That's not to say, that you can't make 100K doing this type of work, but you probably would have to own your own studio and have a reputal name to draw in the Ad agencies. Seeing you're not from the U.S., then I am assuming you don't have a clientel of Ad agencies in the U.S. following behind you. I would therefore guess you might have a chance of entering in around more like 30K/year and that's probably even on the high side, because most people start off as interns in this field not getting paid or making minimum wage of $5-$6/hr.

Rednroll,

thanks for such an extended answer. Yes I gueesed in USA commercials are produced in separate production studios, not on the stations.

I work on the station and make promos/commercials, and there's a few production companies which make spots for agencies. That doesn't mean commercials produced on the station are for poor clients, I make spots for Adidas/Nike/Reebok/other big clients and for poor companies too, it depends on the order.

What do you mean saying "audio engineer"? What is your job? My occupation is called "sound producer" but it's also not a much-telling-about thing. I don't write the script, but everything else in spot production is after me. I say which actor must read this, which actor will say that, I record the actors telling them how to say each word. I choose the music cuts, make the voices sound nifty (it depends :),
then I open my favorite Vegas 3, and make the drive. It takes about an hour or more to make a cool mix. Simple spot can be done after 15 minutes. Just interesting how you make it in USA. I just guess there's different time limits given to a spot. Like a day or so...

PS: 30K? It's so fkn low...

Thank you for your next answer :)

Roman.

Your job in the U.S. would be referred as Producer/Engineer. The ad agency has a writer and a producer. The writer obviously writes the script as far as dialogue, suggested sound FX's and music type. The producer takes the script to the studio and works with an "audio engineer". It is the producers job to hire the actors to read the script and instruct them how they should read it. It is also their job to make the final decisions on what Sound FX's and Music get's used, Although the engineer will do this job most of the time, but the producer get's the final say since it's their ass on the line. In a lot of cases the audio engineer does most of the producers work along with the actual engineering work. Technically speaking the engineers only job should be to record, edit and mix the spot. A lot of producers are not that good and work with engineers that have more experience in producing, so at the end of the day when they have to present their spot back at the agency to their boss and the client, they look like a superstar.

I agree 30K as a starting salary sucks for this type of work. The problem is that their is no college degree required for this work and many people are interested in this type of work, so they are willing to start working for free to get their foot in the door and aquire a clientel. Everyone that does this type of work doesn't get into it for the money. They're mostly people that love music or working with audio (ie musicians). Most musicians don't make a lot of money unless they're famous or have acquired a clientel of ad agencies to write music for. Well the same can be said, for a Producer/Engineer in the recording field. So it is very possible making 100K if you are bringing your clients like Reebok and Nike with you to a studio. I'm sure theirs a lot of studios or radio stations that would hire you and pay you 100k a year if you're bring them an additional $1mil a year of clientel. If you're not then you better expect to enter in around 30K and maybe even 25K.

Some of the clients I did spots for at the studio I worked at was Ford,Chevy,Chrysler,Mazda,Kohls,Goodyear,BFGoodrich,Buick,Lowes,and Microsoft. So these where some pretty high paying clients and basically the only ones getting rich where the owner of the studio and his accountant. Most of the engineers had mediocre houses and a half way decent automobile. So I can tell you, just by looking at their houses that they weren't making 100K/yr unless they where married to someone that made 50K along side their 50K.

Well, you'll get paid what other people think you are worth, not what you think you're worth.

You've gotta start at the bottom. And, honestly, if you're in this for the money you're in the wrong business....cheers, D

Sh*t... In my country it is a well-paid occupation if you're
in the right place. I just can't imagine it's not so in US.
Another silly question: if the person loves making the sound,
what would be his best business but not being independent, as
an employee? Maybe movies... Please don't be angry, it's all very
interesting and important for me.

Heh....here there's jobs where there's a guaranteed income, but usually it's government work. :) Really, anywhere else you're paid on merit. That's just the way it works! Why employ someone at x dollars when you can get someone better for more?

About your second question, it's hard to say. I'm not sure where you're from but it's such a general question that I can't answer it. It's like asking "How much does a fish weigh?" It's a matter of opinion.

Hope this helps! Cheers, D

Q:"how much does an artist make?"
A: Depends on what your day job is.

> Really, anywhere else you're paid on merit.
> That's just the way it works!
> Why employ someone at x dollars when you can get someone better for more?

This is good! In another words, if you're good enough and even almost the best,
you will definately make 100K as an employee but not forthright, after a few years,
right? Don't say I'm stupid if I don't stop mentioning this 100K. In fact, I want
it to be 10K/month after I pay the taxes :)

My acquaintances tell me about their friends moved to US making these huge
dollar amounts being a programmer.

So, being a programmer is more prestigious than being perfect in sound producing?
No way :)

"So, being a programmer is more prestigious than being perfect in sound producing?
No way :)"

Sorry, yes way.

MJ

Oh yes, being a programmer probably pays twice as much starting off somewhere. Getting the 100K mark you're looking for would probably take you at least 10 years of experience working in the right places and getting some national exposure.

Personally, I went from a sound producing job and decided to use my degree that I already had in eletrical engineering and I almost tripled my salary, although I had more experience in the sound producing field.

I now do the sound producing in my own home studio part-time, but I would not be able to do that if I hadn't made the contacts and gained the trust of the clients that I met when working for someone else.

You've got some wierd image of America as the place where the streets are paved in gold. It ain't.

Don't kid yourself. And don't believe what other people say. It sounds like you've been talking to people who want you to believe that they're doing better than they are.

And yes, lose the 100K thing. Why don't you find something to do that you enjoy and let the rest take it's course? And as Mjhig replied: Programmers, good ones, will take home 100K. Not sound people.

As I've said already, you don't get into the arts to get rich. You've been watching too many J-Lo videos, man.

HA HA HA HA HA! More right than GR could ever know.....

“The radio business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free. All while many good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.”

- Hunter S. Thompson

The salary range is tremendous and it is based on experience, talent, personality, creativity and who you know.

Right out of school with no experience? You'll start around $20-22k. Show some talent, work hard, be good with people (clients and voice talent), bring some creativity and excellence to the job and you can work your way up as high as $50 or $60k.

I would guess the number of people in America doing what you do and making $100k is very low. (Unless they own the business or studio they work in.) If you move over to writing the scripts and directing the entire process for a major ad agency and you're good at what you do and clients are asking for you by name then, sure, you'll be into the 6 figure range easily.

I am paying my top guy $33k right now and that's a little high for this market. He does just what you do...everything but the script. He is also a composer and he makes money above and beyond his salary for his musical compositions.

Hope that helps!

Rob