plug ins -Sound Forge - PC - MAGIX Community Forums Archive

Subject:plug ins Posted by: Engineer Date:10/22/2002 10:20:22 PM Sometime ago someone gave the address, where to find a plugin. This was one that would strip away the centre track (vocal). Anyone know where to find such a plugin.
Subject:RE: plug ins Reply by: sk Date:10/22/2002 10:58:04 PM I'm not sure exactly which plug-in you were referring to, but if you do a search here for 'remove vocals', you'll find a whole bunch (Over 150). Here are a couple of samples just to get ya started: http://www.sonicfoundry.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=3&MessageID=127599 http://www.sonicfoundry.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=3&MessageID=90404 Finally, you might be thinking about a program from DART, which has a 'devocalizer'. The URL is: http://www.dartpro.com. However, before dashing off there, you might just want to consider/read the following, written by one of Dart Pro's OWN SUPPORT STAFF. (One day I plan to figure out why they even advertise that damn 'devocalizer' when they obviously know it really doesn't work.) --------------------------------------------------------------- The DeVocalizer: (I've posted this [edited] from another thread) "I'm sorry to hear that you haven't had any luck with the DeVocalizer and the music you're trying to use. I suspect that the DeVocalizer IS working for you, but that's it's just not producing quite the results that you were expecting. Let me "lay it down" for you (and all others that are concerned about why 'devocalizing' does what it does to audio): First off, there is NO SUCH THING as 100% vocal elimination from existing stereo recordings (when using our software or ANY other similar tool from anyone, anywhere in the universe). Period. End of story. No matter WHAT we do, there WILL be some of the original vocal 'reverberation' in the background. The methods that are used to produce this "effect" (by us and ALL other such similar tools) are fairly set, and there's only a finite number of possible algorithms to make this 'devocal' process function (and we already do ALL of them). The nature of audio (and how it's recorded/engineered/mixed) simply doesn't allow for devocalization (center-channel-cancellation) to be successful on all stereo recordings. The reverb that's placed on a lead vocalist's track, when it's recorded in the studio, permeates across the entire recording (generally, in both frequency (Hz) and time). This reverb signal is the 'left over' stuff that you're hearing. Many songs that you might like to DeVocalize simply will NOT lend themselves to this process (I worked on "Yellow Submarine" forever before giving up). You're likely to find that the following types of tracks may give you more trouble: - tracks that don't place the lead singer in the middle of the stereo field (i.e. a 'hard pan' to either the left or right channel). - tracks by 'group vocalists'. Often, the vocalists are 'spread wide' over the stereo image during mixdown. This wider area of vocals is harder to suppress, since it takes up a greater area in the soundfield. - Live recordings that have 'odd mixes' and don't represent a well balanced stereo image. If you use MP3s, or WAVs created from MP3s, you likely will see FAR worse results, due to the fact that conversion to the MP3 format throws out too much of the usable audio to make this process work correctly. It's one of the main reason that we DO NOT RECOMMEND using MP3s with the DeVocalizer. Even if you use WAVE files that came straight from audio CD, you may STILL see this issue. I've often found that settings of about <0.70> - <0.90> on the "Attenuation" slider tends to work well, and that (in most cases), you'll want the "Bass Retrieval" slider set all the way to the right (at 800Hz)." ----------------- Andy Smith DARTECH Sales & Support Specialist (800) 799-1692 andy@dartpro.com http://www.dartpro.com ------------------------------------ Well, hope that clears it up for you. sk
Subject:RE: plug ins Reply by: nlamartina Date:10/23/2002 12:22:50 AM You can also try AnalogX's Vocal Remover. Real simple program, just uses the ol' phase inversion trick. - Nick

I'm not sure exactly which plug-in you were referring to, but if you do a search here for 'remove vocals', you'll find a whole bunch (Over 150).
Here are a couple of samples just to get ya started:
http://www.sonicfoundry.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=3&MessageID=127599

http://www.sonicfoundry.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=3&MessageID=90404

Finally, you might be thinking about a program from DART, which has a 'devocalizer'. The URL is:
http://www.dartpro.com.

However, before dashing off there, you might just want to consider/read the following, written by one of Dart Pro's OWN SUPPORT STAFF. (One day I plan to figure out why they even advertise that damn 'devocalizer' when they obviously know it really doesn't work.)
---------------------------------------------------------------

The DeVocalizer:

(I've posted this [edited] from another thread)

"I'm sorry to hear that you haven't had any luck with the DeVocalizer
and the music you're trying to use. I suspect that the DeVocalizer IS
working for you, but that's it's just not producing quite the results
that you were expecting.

Let me "lay it down" for you (and all others that are concerned about
why 'devocalizing' does what it does to audio):

First off, there is NO SUCH THING as 100% vocal elimination from
existing stereo recordings (when using our software or ANY other
similar tool from anyone, anywhere in the universe).

Period. End of story.

No matter WHAT we do, there WILL be some of the original vocal
'reverberation' in the background. The methods that are used to produce
this "effect" (by us and ALL other such similar tools) are fairly set,
and there's only a finite number of possible algorithms to make this
'devocal' process function (and we *already* do ALL of them).

The nature of audio (and how it's recorded/engineered/mixed) simply
doesn't allow for devocalization (center-channel-cancellation) to be
successful on all stereo recordings.

The reverb that's placed on a lead vocalist's track, when it's recorded
in the studio, permeates across the entire recording (generally, in both
frequency (Hz) and time). This reverb signal is the 'left over' stuff
that you're hearing.

Many songs that you might like to DeVocalize simply will NOT lend
themselves to this process (I worked on "Yellow Submarine" forever
before giving up).

You're likely to find that the following types of tracks may give
you more trouble:

- tracks that don't place the lead singer in the middle of the
stereo field (i.e. a 'hard pan' to either the left or right channel).

- tracks by 'group vocalists'. Often, the vocalists are 'spread wide'
over the stereo image during mixdown. This wider area of vocals is
harder to suppress, since it takes up a greater area in the
soundfield.

- Live recordings that have 'odd mixes' and don't represent a well
balanced stereo image.

If you use MP3s, or WAVs created from MP3s, you likely will see FAR
worse results, due to the fact that conversion to the MP3 format throws
out too much of the usable audio to make this process work correctly.

It's one of the main reason that we DO NOT RECOMMEND using
MP3s with the DeVocalizer.

Even if you use WAVE files that came *straight* from audio CD, you
may STILL see this issue.

I've often found that settings of about <0.70> - <0.90> on the
"Attenuation" slider tends to work well, and that (in most cases),
you'll want the "Bass Retrieval" slider set all the way to the
right (at 800Hz)."
-----------------
Andy Smith
DARTECH Sales & Support Specialist
(800) 799-1692
andy@dartpro.com
http://www.dartpro.com
------------------------------------

Well, hope that clears it up for you.

sk