My 113th AES review

Rednroll wrote on 10/8/2002, 6:47 PM

Well I have to say that Digidesign ruled the AES exibits with Protools. There was constantly a crowd around their booth with a captivated audience. Still no improvement on their CD assembly of tracks, outside of "Master List". They recommended another software solution on the MAC side that I was unfamiliar with. I said, I prefer the CD Architect/Vegas solution of being able to put track ID's on the timeline and burning straight to CD. A big question mark appeared on their face of "Vegas? Sonic Foundry who?"

Cakewalk's Sonar lead the pack on the PC side. Although, the improvements that stuck out to me the most, was that all their update features started to look a whole lot like Sonic Foundry's product line. They boasted about their "ACID" style of loop functionality. Their new editing features and user interface looked ALOT like Vegas.

After a couple of days of talking to many software vendors and hardware control surface manufacturers at the show, I had that feeling as many Vegas users do. Everytime I mentioned that I was an avid Vegas user, the big question mark always popped up. "Vegas? what is that?" So even the competition hardware developers, and software plugin developers don't even seem to recognize Vegas. The guys from Samplitude, where showing me an "event only" proceesing of effects features and boasted that they are the only software option that currently offers this option. My comment....."well it looks a lot like the same way Vegas is able to do this"......again..."really?...who's Vegas?" I got the same question mark from Digidesign, Waves, TC Works and Steinberg.

Sonic Foundry's presence at this convention was really missed. After all, anyone who is anyone is usually at this convention. Even Cool Edit Pro had a good display at this show and after attending their demo, it showed me how it pales in comparison to Vegas in many aspects. Steinberg was only demoing the new Nuendo 2.0 and showed nothing on the new Cubase SX. This was the first time I actually got to touch Nuendo, since I think they still don't have a Demo to release. It's the same editing style as Cubase, so that was enough to turn my stomach.

I believe Dave Chaimson of Sonic Foundry's marketing department attended the show. I'm hoping that was to see where Sonic Foundry needs to be for Vegas's image. If Vegas 4 implements many of the new Acid 4.0 features and get's hardware control surface support and attends these types of shows regularly then I think Vegas could be the star attraction and alot of us Vegas users wouldn't have to see that dazed stare with the question mark, when we mention we use Vegas for our audio needs.

Regards,
Red

Comments

JoeD wrote on 10/8/2002, 7:02 PM

Does anybody give a rat's prick what YOU thought of AES?
Namedropping like nobody's business.

We already know the dazed stare. It's the result of your "buddies" at SF.
Email it to them mr. 7.1 dolby.
You don't help matters much also.

Can we vote for a new REP? Cause I'd like to vote YOU off the island first.

joed

Rednroll wrote on 10/8/2002, 7:08 PM

"Does anybody give a rat's prick what YOU thought of AES?"

Obviously, YOU took the time to read the post and it was clearly titled.....so I guess the answer to your question is "YES".

PipelineAudio wrote on 10/8/2002, 7:13 PM

Why does SF let cakewalk walk away with its goodies?

SHTUNOT wrote on 10/9/2002, 12:21 AM

I agree completely with you on how sonar is "ripping off" much from sofo gui+features. When sonar first came out I thought that sofo would in kind "show them how it's done" and release Vegas Audio 3 with much of the same features. But of course we all know how it all went down.

The sad thing is that its always like Vegas is a year or so behind everyone else in the audio department. But in video they have the rest of them rethinking their developmental plans. Why dammit! I went out and even bought sonar 2.0XL because I thought that sofo would never keep up with the pack. Nice to be proven wrong but nowhere near satisfied. Sonar is cool as hell but I still prefer working in vegas/acid. Use it more for its midi stuff.

I've got the impression from the V.A.S.T. tour that the features that won't get carried over from acid are its looping features and OPT[ie:no midi]. I could be wrong though. Everything else is a done deal IMHO. Among some other audio stuff that people have been asking for. Who knows.

I just can't see why they don't just code two different apps...one audio,one video. But instead of "shutting off/hiding" the video stuff they could just not write it in. That way we can have ALL the features and more without stepping on the video portions toes.

This whole marketing vegas with "video" attached to it really killed any chance of ANY audio consumer taking a serious look at it and IMHO screwed up the whole damn product line. The marketing people are IDIOTS! Just call it "VEGAS" already and thats it!

Could you imagine the look on everyones face if sofo showed off Vegas 4 at aes with ALL of acids new audio features included? With a kickass third party opt midi editor of course.

How kickass would it be if they made a opt midi editor like studio vision...hmmm. Later.

CDM wrote on 10/9/2002, 8:53 AM

JoeD -
you obviously have a big problem with RednRoll. Reading the post, there is NOTHING in it that's namedropping (other than naming products and companies which, um, I don't really think qualifies). This was a very straight-forward post.

why all the hostility, man?

edna6284 wrote on 10/9/2002, 3:57 PM

I think Rednroll's point, whatever his credibility in your eyes JoeD, was that nobody knows what a Sonic Foundry is, and that their presence at these shows would go a long way to giving them some cred in the audio field.

How can that be something to flame over?

bgc wrote on 10/9/2002, 7:21 PM

Hi Red,
I was at AES for for 3 days as well and agree with your reporting. Cakewalk, Cool Edit and Nuendo had big booths. Digidesign's set up was huge (but then a lot of the "booths" were for their plug-in partnerships. I too missed Sonic Foundry's attendence.
To be honest, I've been interacting with quite a few pros and semi-pros lately who haven't heard of Acid or Vegas. The "good" part is that I feel like I have a "secret" advantage - Acid is amazing. The bad part is that these great apps aren't getting the credit they deserve (AND we risk losing them or them not getting enough sales for proper support and development).
Just my 2 cents. Sorry if I dropped too many names... actually I think I dropped so many none of them made it to the post. ;)
bgc

JoeD wrote on 10/10/2002, 1:43 AM

basically,

- I'm sick of these yearly do-gooder 1/2 a$$ "reporters" commenting on whatever new gadjet that gets crammed out to make a release date of the extremely nauseating trade shows.
Burping the latest trade sheeeow factoids (simulated tugging of the johnson).

If a third of these people concentrated on the FOLLOW-UP (aka: the trackrecord of the application of day to day studio use), they might be usefull.

- SF compete with PT?...don't think so kids. Steinberg, digidesign, cakewalk are walkign all over sf - they are companies that dive in full bore.
SF doesn't know what that means (see: split of Vegas and Acid. Can you say...bullsh**?)

Plus, SF's marketing is UTTERLY AND COMPLETELY cheesy and amatuerish (vegas???...get some experience behind that helm. It's time you faced the facts.

- SF shows it's true colors with the deletion of posts (hint: term of endearment for a young cat)

Joed

bgc wrote on 10/10/2002, 2:40 PM

Who peed in your cheerios?
Damn.

JoeD wrote on 10/10/2002, 4:30 PM

More of the same....
<snip>

CDM wrote on 10/10/2002, 5:08 PM

JoedD -
I thought you were seeking a refund and dropping Vegas a long time ago?

what's it gonna be?

PipelineAudio wrote on 10/10/2002, 10:13 PM

"The guys from Samplitude, where showing me an "event only" proceesing of effects features and boasted that they are the only software option that currently offers this option. My comment....."well it looks a lot like the same way Vegas is able to do this"."

the guy from xvision told me to use samplitude 7 instead of vegas and this was one of the reasons. I asked " hasnt vegas already done that for quite some time ? " and " is it shipping now " ? not even shipping

so, in order to solve my hardware problem, switch to samplitude 7 but dont book any sessions till it comes out whenever it does

Rednroll wrote on 10/11/2002, 9:24 AM

Lol,
See pipe, I wasn't B.S.ing ya!!! Samplitude looked pretty good, but as I mentioned I was able to pick out 3 disadvantages on the editing side in spending 5 minutes with the program. Don't forget, it only costs 900 bucks also. Like we all have 900 bucks to throw around buying software, to finally find the one that we like best AND works with our hardware. I should have told them...oh yeah BTW I use Echo cards and they work great with Vegas.

edna6284 wrote on 10/11/2002, 10:11 AM

Is there a point-by-point comparison (in chart form or whatever) of various sound apps? I'd like to see how VV stacks up to the mighty Samp.

PipelineAudio wrote on 10/11/2002, 10:41 AM

samplitude 7 is supposed to have some serious plugin delay compensation and some midi something, but....so what

to me its the " feel " of an app that matters most. Vegas or more correctly, drumagog + vegas, got me off of tape, mixwise at least. WHY should I need to change mouse tools for every single function? Why cant I just drag an event or another event and have it crossfade without entering a dialog box? How am I supposed to move events accurately if it doesnt even DRAW them while they move ( cubendo )?

I chose Vegas. WHY should a hardware company even THINK they are going to tell you to change software???

JoeD wrote on 10/12/2002, 7:19 AM

who is editing my posts? SF?

tsk...tsk...making my points FOR me.
You're a joke.

It's past comical how you delete all posts dealing with your business practices, my returns of vegass 1 and 2.

Do you think I didn't save ALL those posts from all "Sonic_" on my returns?

WT wrote on 10/14/2002, 5:37 AM

"How kickass would it be if they made a opt midi editor like studio vision...hmmm. Later. "

OMG, a kindred soul. I only wish I knew where I could suggest this to make it reality.

Warren

Rednroll wrote on 10/14/2002, 9:32 AM

I've suggested it in the past...I'm still using Studio Vision for my midi needs. I just don't think I've been suggesting it to the right people, although when I suggested it to a couple reps from Samplitude, they seemed to get pretty excited by the idea. Now maybe if we can get another 100 users on this forum suggesting the same thing, maybe someone at SF will start to take notice. Until then Studio Vision will remain on it's own seperate PC running under windows 98 for me. Luckily Vegas has Smpte/MTC features to allow me to make this happen. I've checked out the midi features in Acid 4 and they aren't anywhere as close to the power Studio Vision had, and that program died about 3 years ago.

Hello???...Hello???...Is this mic on!!??? :-)

RikTheRik wrote on 10/14/2002, 10:10 AM

I think the GUI improvements rotate through each vendor !
When I saw Logic 5 improvements and their curves, I thought that I had that a while in Sonar... and I think this feature has been introduced in Cakewalk 9.
Each vendor is ripping GUI features from the other ones.
Then about all the different products, I think that Vegas could get its place in the market as it is a pure audio app instead of Sonar which is more aimed for writing music IMO (I do 90% of my work on Sonar 2... big fan of Cakewalk since CW7).
Vegas is very cool for handling lots of audio media and for mastering too.
But if I had a project that involves no midi and no virtual synths, I would go Vegas. I believe that the midi and virtual synth stuff are bloating the apps for pure audio work.

RikTheRik wrote on 10/14/2002, 11:55 AM

That delay compensation is really a stupid subject because it is basically a flaw in the VST/VSTi design ! All Directx applications have natively delay compensation by design.

WT wrote on 10/14/2002, 10:34 PM

Maybe a petition is in order! A petition to whom though?

If only there was a way to make aware how many pros still think that Vision is the cat's ass - that it's still king of the sequencers.

Which version of Vision are you using right now? It's hard to come by the PC versions at all these days...

OPT developers, take note - I will pay more for a good OPT Vision plugin than I already have for Vegas!

Warren

Geoff_Wood wrote on 10/15/2002, 2:07 AM

> Posted by: JoeD (Ignore This User)
> basically,

> - I'm sick of these yearly do-gooder 1/2 a$$ "reporters"
> commenting on whatever new gadjet that gets crammed out
> to make a release date of the extremely nauseating trade shows.
> Burping the latest trade sheeeow factoids (simulated tugging of the johnson).

So why read them ? And then reply to them, spraying your vitriol at everybody who thinks SF isn't totally evil. Do you actually want Vegas to succeed, or are you just totally negative ? If not, you've got a strange way of expressing it.

OK take a free hit or 2 at me. I won't bother responding.

geoff

JoeD wrote on 10/15/2002, 3:31 AM

JoeD wrote on 10/15/2002, 3:36 AM

<<<OK take a free hit or 2 at me.>>>

This is EXACTLY what I mean about "sticking to the topic"...because NO!! I don't want to quivel with you...I would like to see more noise raised so I can see this app stay.
The more people turn this forum into a "he said this..she said that...he sweared at me" whinefest instead of the meat of the matter - where vegas is headed (let's hope that name changes as well...yikes), the easier it is to blow off the ideas being said now.

The points being made obviously need to be drummed in at all angles with the possibility of SOMEBODY with the authority over deciding to get SF back in the race (where you'll see your app stay and grow. It's quite simple really - no users over time...no app over time).

JoeD