The future of OPT is so bright i gotta wear shades... -ACID Product Family

ACID Product Family

Subject:The future of OPT is so bright i gotta wear shades... Posted by: skysurfer Date:10/8/2002 11:12:09 AM Although the basic idea of OPT as an open Midi platform aint that bad i dont feel that any major softcompany will jump on that train. OPT is an alibi to fill up lacks in development; i would prefer that SoFo fills those up themselves. Anyway it scares me to death to let something "alien" plug into my Acid causing an unpredictable, uncontrollable instability... In SoFo only i trust...
Subject:RE: The future of OPT is so bright i gotta wear shades... Reply by: TeeCee Date:10/8/2002 11:15:08 AM Do you use VSTi's or DirectX FX (non SoFo)? It's Aliens all over! They're coming for us all! TeeCee
Subject:RE: The future of OPT is so bright i gotta wear shades... Reply by: pwppch Date:10/8/2002 11:27:28 AM What is the difference between OPT, VSTi, or DX FX? Nothing. You don't like ACID's stock reverb, you can choose any number of DX reverbs. You don't like ACID's stock DLS synth? You can choose any number of VST Instruments. They extend the possibilites of the host, just like OPT. OPT is not a cop out. We chose it because it lets both us and third parties work on extending the MIDI capabilities of ACID. We built the architecture to allow ACID's MIDI interfaces to grow with out requiring version updates. When we were the first to release DX FX support in a host (Sound Forge), there were few if any DX plugins available. This was in 1997. Everybody screamed. Now there are more DX FX than most know what to do with. It took a bit of time, but DX caught on and has advanced the platform. We know that our current OPT editors are young and that there are additional features that users want. Just like our DX plugin FX line has grown, so will our OPT plugins. We believe that third parties will start to develope as the demand and market grows. We were the first with DX FX, but we were not the last. Once OPT capabilities appear in other hosts, the third party market for OPT plugs will appear and new editors, MIDI FX, and control pluging will appear. We will also advance our plugins. Peter
Subject:RE: The future of OPT is so bright i gotta wear shades... Reply by: justifiedalive Date:10/8/2002 12:15:51 PM Rock on SonicPCH!
Subject:RE: The future of OPT is so bright i gotta wear shades... Reply by: PHATDRUMS Date:10/8/2002 3:32:30 PM Your marketing of acid 4.0 mentions nothing like 'acid 4.0 contains a opt midi editor but unfortunately its very young ' does it peter? young being a polite way of saying what exactly s*** oops perish the thought are steinberg and emagic preparing a wonderful midi opt for YOUR app as we speak i dont think so i may of course be wrong the analogy between dx is not really that strong an argument really when working on an ssl i didnt expect ssl effects nor did i expect lexicon to make desks you make software thats it period and as for opt allowing people to improve midi functionality without revisions is just same as saying you can take your foot off the gas and let somone else revise it for you i call that a big cop out as an audio/video company i realise midi maybe a bit throwback a thorn in your side maybe but its all weve got at the moment so if your not up to it be honest and let people move on just in case ill keep my reactolite rapids at the ready!
Subject:RE: The future of OPT is so bright i gotta wear shades... Reply by: pwppch Date:10/8/2002 3:50:33 PM Young == Version 1.0. I don't appolgize for what we delivered. It is capable of doing many things. It does what it was advertised to do: It is a Piano Roll editor. We didn't claim anything else. Some users like it, some users hate it. I know you want it to do other things. Yes, I know, other editors do more things. We will continue to update and improve our editors, just like we update and improve all of our products. Peter
Subject:RE: The future of OPT is so bright i gotta wear shades... Reply by: wcreed Date:10/8/2002 5:44:41 PM I guess this is a “young” flame. It’s still lacking in grammar, punctuation and spelling. It’s a version 1.0 flame. From a 1.0 mind.
Subject:RE: The future of OPT is so bright i gotta wear shades... Reply by: pwppch Date:10/8/2002 7:34:23 PM I disagree with you completely. OPT is just like both DX FX and VSTi technologies. They permit third parties to enhance a host. Even if we are the only ones to provide OPT editors, it permits Sonic Foundry to advance the editing capabilities of our apps. It is the direction we have chosen. It is the right thing to do. The analogy of DX/VSTi/OPT is a very strong argument for comparison. DX and VSTi are COMPLETELY about host extensibility and allowing the user to choose the solution that best fits their needs. You hardware analog makes no sense when talking about the virutal nature of a software centric environment like ACID. Yes, we are a software company, and we rely on software technologies to advance the platform and our products. If we followed your analogies, then adding any new technology support would be the same cop out as using OPT. Did we cop out when we added ASIO? We are relying on third parties to develope low latency drivers to drive our engine. Did we cop out when we adopted 5.1 and AC3 as our encoding schemes? Again, there is that reliance on a third party - Dolby - to provide us with technology in order to solve a problem. No in both cases. There is nothing bad about OPT or any technology that permits a host to extend and open its architecture to other software, as risky as that is. We don't expect any sequencing vendor - Steinberg, Emagic(unlikely), or Cakewalk - to develope an editor. That is their choice. We do have expectations that an OPT third party market will arise. If the a Vision type PR or the SONAR PR appear as OPT plugins, this would be outstanding. We don't expect it, but yes, we would do everything we could to help in promoting it. Bottom line is we chose an architecture to permit Sonic Foundry to develope MIDI capabilities. We are very pleased with how OPT permited us to accomplish this. We are very "up to" the task and I am always honest about what we do and how we do it. I have never said that we wouldn't do any of the things you desire. I agree with you that there are things that need to be done. You can choose to accept that we will advance our editors or not. That is completely up to you. I assure you that we will. Peter
Subject:RE: The future of OPT is so bright i gotta wear shades... Reply by: Spirit Date:10/8/2002 9:36:04 PM If a good MIDI plugin becomes available - and maybe more than one - then SoFo will be hailed as brilliant marketeers with keen judgment. AcidPro will be ahead of its time again and other will be running to implement the same thing. But maybe this won't happen. So just relax. No one can predict the future. Sonic, I was interested in the potential update to the DX effects. Hopefully this might include a BPM rate on the delays. Gotta say that without a BPM rate those effects (for me) are of almost no use . . .
Subject:RE: The future of OPT is so bright i gotta wear shades... Reply by: PHATDRUMS Date:10/9/2002 3:16:32 AM ASIO! peter speak as if youve just had an epiphany or something you had to had to add asio years after the competition did just to keep sf in the ball park dont try tell me that you did it for philanthropic reasons it was vital. dx vsti opt still dont agree maybe people did ask for piano roll but nowhere in any post does anyone say please give me a really primitve piano roll i believe that they wanted piano roll and the functionality that could reasonably be expected to come with it you should have spent more time on piano roll than you did on the list editor though thats not that good either until i see otherwise opt has allowed you to cop out if like you ill applaud you for adding something that adds ahother string to a programs bow but it does not give you the right to bring out aprogram with midi functions so poor that you really have to buy a third party editor to run in a professional manner and that my friend is what you have done
Subject:RE: The future of OPT is so bright i gotta wear shades... Reply by: pwppch Date:10/9/2002 7:54:17 AM We added ASIO because it was required for realtime playback of softsynths. We had no need for low latency audio i/o in the past, so there was no point to supporting ASIO in previous versions of ACID. To add a technology because other apps use it is a poor use of resources and bad design. A technology in and of itself is useless unless it provides a benifit or solves a problem for the application. We don't support a technology just for technology sake. You call the MIDI editing in ACID primative. We call if functional. Some find it useful. Others hate it. A subjective argument and there is no point in continuing this debate. You have made your point clear : You don't like the MIDI editing or implementation in ACID 4. Your comments have been heard and will be addressed in the future. Peter
Subject:RE: The future of OPT is so bright i gotta wear shades... Reply by: TeeCee Date:10/9/2002 12:15:02 PM <sarcasm> If only there were a hand held device that could do math to help figure out he delay times. Or maybe the equivalent of that in software. Or maybe a program where by one could enter a series of data and forlumals, have the program calculate the answers and then print the results! Hey, wait a minute, those do exist! </sarcasm> 1/4 notes: 60/BPM 1/8 notes: 30/BPM 1/16 notes: 15/BPM 1/32 notes: 7.5/BPM Results will be time in ms. Plug that into Excel. Copy down for all tempos you think you need to know about. Save it. Print it. Reference it. Just be glad that the delay time is not just some arbitrary number like it is in my K5000S with no reference to time anywhere. TeeCee
Subject:RE: The future of OPT is so bright i gotta wear shades... Reply by: PHATDRUMS Date:10/9/2002 12:39:28 PM peter you shouted the point about adding asio not me and asyour own posts confirms once you started adding vstis they became vital so whats your point? re midi functional <designed or developed chiefly from the point of view of use/ease of use: practical > cambridge dictionary in acid 4 that is moot point just functional peter its suppossed to be a pro app !
Subject:RE: The future of OPT is so bright i gotta wear shades... Reply by: pwppch Date:10/9/2002 2:51:15 PM Shouted? (LOL)...whatever... If you don't know my point by now, I give up. Peter
Subject:RE: The future of OPT is so bright i gotta wear shades... Reply by: Iacobus Date:10/9/2002 3:02:46 PM Users have to remember that the ability to record and actually playback MIDI is a relatively new thing to ACID Pro. There was simply no such thing prior to ACID Pro 3.0. Does that mean ACID Pro 2.0 (and 1.0) was no less a pro app, just because it didn't have the ability to record or playback MIDI? Of course not... Personally, I look at ACID Pro 4.0's MIDI capabilities as a creative perk——as just another creative tool in a sea of tools. That's probably because I don't rely on MIDI so much. (That's exactly why I chose ACID Pro over other apps in the first place; I actually had no real use for MIDI prior to VSTi's.) That would definitely make my argument subjective. But there you have it. Iacobus
Subject:RE: The future of OPT is so bright i gotta wear shades... Reply by: ibliss Date:10/9/2002 3:16:30 PM "functional <designed or developed chiefly from the point of view of use/ease of use: practical > cambridge dictionary in acid 4 that is moot point just functional peter its suppossed to be a pro app!" --------------- PHATDRUMS, you're contradicting yourself. SoFo guys have always stressed that they take great pains to make their apps easy and intuitive to use. So quoting a definition which equates functional with ease of use....what are you trying to prove? Does ease of use not matter to you? I suggest you spend less time with the dictionary and more making music.
Subject:RE: The future of OPT is so bright i gotta wear shades... Reply by: PHATDRUMS Date:10/9/2002 6:25:23 PM i bliss i despair .the point you soreley missed is that the midi is poor very few really usefull functions and it is really not that practical or functional as other folks have called it is remedial i did not contadict myself either read it again or better still get some else to read it to you you might just get it many thanks
Subject:RE: The future of OPT is so bright i gotta wear shades... Reply by: ibliss Date:10/9/2002 6:42:59 PM you didn't answer my question.
Subject:RE: The future of OPT is so bright i gotta wear shades... Reply by: Jacose Date:10/9/2002 10:03:46 PM Personally, I look at ACID Pro 4.0's MIDI capabilities as a creative perk——as just another creative tool in a sea of tools. That's probably because I don't rely on MIDI so much. (That's exactly why I chose ACID Pro over other apps in the first place; I actually had no real use for MIDI prior to VSTi's.) That would definitely make my argument subjective. But there you have it. and this indeed is the proper viewpoint. I like Acids midi editor, but I hardly use it. I like Fruityloops' better. But, all of my projects are don e in Acid, and wouldnt exist without this great program!
Subject:RE: The future of OPT is so bright i gotta wear shades... Reply by: bitbopper Date:10/9/2002 10:44:08 PM Good bye phatdrums!!!
Subject:RE: The future of OPT is so bright i gotta wear shades... Reply by: PHATDRUMS Date:10/10/2002 2:56:47 AM ibliss did you read the other threads but in answer to question im the imnot trying to proove anything other than the fact that the midi in acid unlike unlike other sofo products is not very functional and and not intuitive and to try and use it for somethings it can be down right counter intuitive which is very unusal for products from this company ergo my dissapointment at the midi side of things that of course and the constant crashing hope that clears it for you peter from sf said the midi in his was view was functional i dont happen to think it is and as he says its a subjective issue and as such we are all allowed our view so to paradiddle what sexactly your point because your comment is one made by a true idiot
Subject:RE: The future of OPT is so bright i gotta wear shades... Reply by: Spirit Date:10/10/2002 7:25:42 AM Hi Phatdrums. Probably "goodbye" means that he as switched on "ignore this user" which he means he'll never get to read your post calling him an idiot.
Subject:RE: The future of OPT is so bright i gotta wear shades... Reply by: ibliss Date:10/10/2002 9:00:03 AM "..but in answer to question im the imnot trying to proove anything other than the fact that the midi in acid unlike unlike other sofo products is not very functional and and not intuitive.." Ok, we disagree. I find the MIDI editor very easy to use. Your quoted definition of Funtional states ease of use as being behind the design concept. I have never once had to look at the manual to use the OPT editor. "..my dissapointment at the midi side of things that of course and the constant crashing.." I guess it depends on what you're used to using. I've always been more of and audio than MIDI person, but as it stands ACID 4 lets me use VSTi to write music without a single head scratch. I think it has room for improvement, but SoFo certainly don't throw in junk which they have to clear out later. It is unfortunate that your system crashes frequently. Mine doesn't. SoFo have a tech support for you to report bugs to. This forum is also useful for peer-to-peer support - that is, when it isn't being clogged down with petty arguments, bitching and 'one-upmanship'. "peter from sf said the midi in his was view was functional i dont happen to think it is and as he says its a subjective issue and as such we are all allowed our view" Yes, we can have are own views (thankfully). Again your definition equates funtional with ease of use. I am under the impression that you are confusing ease of use with the number features/tools implemented. Mike K
Subject:RE: The future of OPT is so bright i gotta wear shades... Reply by: PHATDRUMS Date:10/10/2002 1:53:13 PM i think its nice program too i fear its getting a little behind thats all and i just wish it wasnt i dont use fruity loops but ive just looked at their web page and every paremeter you can think of can drawn manipulated or even twisted from a hardware controller both midi and audio and all for 99 dollars whatsit like to use?

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