Subject:To the people at Sonic Foundry

Posted by: Sroznik

Date:9/22/2002 12:57:05 PM

Acid 4.0a is not working with Windows Me or Windows Pro XP. Interesting to note--it does, however, work in our studio running Windows 98SE.

Please, Sonic Foundry, puhleeeeease, consider that this may not be a sound card driver issue. The product crashes if you try to make any kind of change, such as tempo or effects, while you are playing back the song.

I updated my driver. It's not helping. I heard you offered some kind of beta driver, but I would be very uncomfortable accepting a driver from a company other than M-audio who engineered the card, especially since it works with Acid 3.0, CubaseVST, Cubase SX (the demo we are considering at the present time), Cubasis, Logic Audio, Magix Music & Video Maker and Cakewalk Music Creator (to name a few of the products we use).

I love the concept behind your product(s). The user interface and looping are great. It would be great to add ASIO and midi editing. But this product barely functions at all. It appears that this product has been prematurely released.

Puleease do something soon.

Subject:RE: To the people at Sonic Foundry

Reply by: PHATDRUMS

Date:9/22/2002 1:52:19 PM

i too cannot get 4a to run on me xp and 98se if you call two to three mins with out crashing running!
im giving up for awhile
really what i want to know is why is the midi is so shit this the second shot at introducing it to acid!
it really is very poor even if 4 worked
i understand sf is primarly a n audio (or really by the size of the forums a video) company but if your programmers are not
au fait with midi and its code surely the company can afford a programmer who specialises in midi after
all if i get a leaky pipe i call a plumber to fix it because thats what he does !
for original compositions it is essential love it or hate it so this means quantizes with swing and feeling proper control with graphics editing of control info, ive said it before but you you put PRO on the box not me
but after all is said and done the audio side does not work either

fix it
and for gods sake make it pro app quickly

Subject:RE: To the people at Sonic Foundry

Reply by: pwppch

Date:9/22/2002 4:23:31 PM

We did not write the MAudio driver. MAudio did.

When we had problems with a specific ASIO bug, I contacted MAudio directly. They told me that the bug was in the driver and that they would be fixing this. When I asked them if there was a workaround to the crash, they offered me no solution. The crash was clearly in the driver code when we were debugging it.

They contacted me when the beta was ready. We tested it and the crash was no longer present.

I have contacted MAudio again to see what they believe the problems are, though I have not had anyone on this forum tell me what _exactly_ the problem is.

Note: This is a problem ONLY when using the ASIO drivers for the Delta cards in ACID. It did not - couldn't - occur when using the WDM drivers with MME Wave emulation.

If you have a specific case that you are having problems with when using the released version of the Delta drivers and ACID 4.0a, please, post the specifics here.

Peter

Subject:RE: To the people at Sonic Foundry

Reply by: Neil_Palfreyman

Date:9/22/2002 5:06:50 PM

Working fine on XP Pro here....

Subject:RE: To the people at Sonic Foundry

Reply by: fuzzy

Date:9/22/2002 5:31:17 PM

Neil, how's the playback sync with Fruity working for you?

I'm getting a noticable offset between ACID and Fruity

See my comment in the "ACID 4.0 still not in sync?" thread for details.

Subject:RE: To the people at Sonic Foundry

Reply by: victors

Date:9/22/2002 5:39:37 PM

[though I have not had anyone on this forum tell me what _exactly_ the problem is.]

Uh, well, excuse us. I did my part, I gave you $150. But it's you guys charging $150 for what is essentially a beta quality product. We are doing your testing that clearly you are (should be) responsible for and this "Works on my machine, I don't know what wrong with you" bs is totally innappropriate.

The problems happen to be intermittant crashing and freezing and I would think enough people on this forum and elsewhere complaining loud enough would indicate that whatever issue you and m-audio have solved there are clearly others -- perhaps looking at reducing your working set and overall performance BACK DOWN to 3.0g levels would be a first step to solving a lot of the erratic behavoir including interacting with other hw/sw.

VS

Subject:RE: To the people at Sonic Foundry

Reply by: pwppch

Date:9/22/2002 6:02:06 PM

You took this the wrong way. You call it a beta quality, others are having no problems. What can I say other than we are doing everything we possibly can to correct the problems users are having.

Still, how can I help if I don't know what the problem is? Tell me it crashes intermittently with the MAudio drivers just doesn't help much. If this is all the help that can be offered, then it will just take that much longer to determine what the problem is. A user does not have to take the time to help us if they choose not to. We hope that they will.

We are aware of a single specific problem with the MAudio ASIO drivers. MAudio provided us with a fix and they posted this fix. We verfied that the fix they made solved the specific problem.

We are doing the best we can, but any and all help is appreciated.

Peter

Subject:RE: To the people at Sonic Foundry

Reply by: victors

Date:9/22/2002 7:57:15 PM

[others are having no problems]

Again, this is more of the "works on my machine" mentality that belies the quality that used to prevade SF products. You know I bought m-audio cards last year exactly because I called you guys to find out what you were testing and demo'ing on to make sure this kind of thing wouldn't happen (!) -- so telling me we aren't working hard enough seems pretty arrogant. We (the forum participnts) are not helpful enough to you (SF staff) in finding your compat bugs? Are you kidding?

When I call m-audio they recommend their ASIO drivers and they work just fine with every other ASIO software I've ever had, from the super popular to the lowest, grungiest freebie VST. ASIO is pretty well worn technology, it's only a problem with your application, but hey, I'm sorry the bug reporting data is only anectodal: my fault. I'm sure I'm doing something wrong.

VS

Subject:RE: To the people at Sonic Foundry

Reply by: pwppch

Date:9/22/2002 9:29:39 PM

The "works on my machine" is a valid scenario, because it is true. You just used it yourself when you said "it works just fine with every other ASIO software I've ever had..."

Yes, we have a problem. I don't care if it is an general ASIO problem, a specific driver problem, or a particular system configuration problem. All I want to do is fix it.

I don't see how me asking for details is a bad thing. I never said any user wasn't working hard enough. You made that implication, where none was intended.

I am just trying to fix the problems. Any user can choose to help or not help. I can only ask. I never demand or expect it.

Peter

Subject:RE: To the people at Sonic Foundry

Reply by: victors

Date:9/22/2002 10:41:45 PM

[The "works on my machine" is a valid scenario, because it is true. You just used it yourself when you said "it works just fine with every other ASIO software I've ever had..." ]

I'm a user. I paid for that software so yea, I can use it as a scenario. You're a software vendor, you take my money so no it is not a valid scenario for you to use. Get it?

It is not a valid rationale for you to ship buggy, untested software because it "works on my machine". That's a terrible, customer-hostile, big-corporatized arrogant way to do business. Here's my suggestion: Write better code, test more platforms more thoroughly (or at the very least, learn to lie better) and then take my money. That's how it used to work with SF, I guess times have changed.

(If it sounds like I'm hurt and taking it personal it's because I never, ever though I would have this conversion with SF staff and I'm coming to grips with my own romantic naivite that things at SF would never change. ACID has meant a lot to me and it stings to see it in the hands of people who care so little about it. Maybe the folks at ableton can up the idealism longer... )

VS

Subject:RE: To the people at Sonic Foundry

Reply by: Jacose

Date:9/22/2002 11:20:19 PM

....works on my machine.... pretty much... enough to get stuff done.

Subject:RE: To the people at Sonic Foundry

Reply by: Mozzer

Date:9/22/2002 11:24:15 PM

I'm sorry but your not the only person who has paid for this software! Your probably not the only person who is having problems with it either. But VERY often problems ARE down to things that are wrong on YOUR machine that cannot be verified without you posting some specifics to do with what exactly you are doing when the problem occurs, your machine's driver versions/revisions etc etc. If you can't be bothered to do this and you want to sit in the corner and not let anyone "play with your ball" then thats your perogative. But your coming across as very childish and rude indeed.

For your information v4.0a works pretty damn great here for me on windows XP Pro. I am lucky I have two sound cards, one is a Yamaha SW1000XG and the other is a M-Audio Delta 1010. I use the Yamaha in Acid, this is due to the annoying habit that the Delta has of clicking and popping on playback, it records though faultessly so go figure! This habit is exhibited in Cubase VST/SX/Wavlab too - all ASIO capable applications. But you cannot blame Sonic Foundry if the vast majority of people are having no problems with ASIO on other manufacturers cards and only M-Audio's do cause problems. For them to post a fix in a beta driver kind of makes it obvious that the M-Audio drivers are to blame.

I registered to post this. I've been a long time lurker. I've been using Acid since v2 came out. I have to say how the Sonic Foundry guy kept his cool during your thread I'll never know. I think you need to take a good hard look at your attitude and think that maybe if you clamed down and thought before you post you might get your problem sorted out quicker with some tact and diplomacy. The customer isn't always right when they are being stupid - they are just being stupid!

Moz

Subject:RE: To the people at Sonic Foundry

Reply by: Mozzer

Date:9/22/2002 11:33:01 PM

From what i can gather there is an offset setting in Fruityloops itself that has to be adjusted. It is the same when using it with Cubase too. Though I don't use it myself I read about it on www.kvr-vst.com. Of course you could always head over to the Fruityloops forums too I'm sure someone on there would know the wayto tweak the setting too.

Hope this helps,

Moz

Subject:RE: To the people at Sonic Foundry

Reply by: victors

Date:9/23/2002 12:43:51 AM

Render is completely busted in ACID->FruityLoops; been on the forums there, they don't know anything. Either way, its my attitude that's at fault.

VS

Subject:RE: To the people at Sonic Foundry

Reply by: PHATDRUMS

Date:9/23/2002 1:47:02 AM

victors im there for you my son some your points were fair and yet still other folks posted the " it works fine for me " blah blah
yet later they asking about rendering and sync issues so is it working or not ?
and the midi is still rubbish

Subject:RE: To the people at Sonic Foundry

Reply by: Neil_Palfreyman

Date:9/23/2002 2:55:04 AM

Fuzzy - I'm not seeing any offset between Acid and Fruity on playback. I'm using kX ASIO drivers on an SB Live Platinum with 10mS latency (rock solid - no audio glitches at all), and have done extensive testing to make sure it stays in sync, and have found no issues. Im using a playback offset of -8 in the Fruity VSTi, so I have two empty bars at the start of my Acid project, but Fruity syncs up, stays in sync and follows Acids loop regeons perfectly.

The only issue I have had is that rendering from Acid is horribly out of sync - the Fruity track gets rendered about seven and a half beats later than the rest of the Acid project. I've sent details to SoFo and posted on the Fruity tech support forum, but nothing from either yet :(

...Once it all works properly its going to be the Dog's!

Subject:RE: To the people at Sonic Foundry

Reply by: pwppch

Date:9/23/2002 8:41:44 AM

No matter what I say, you will be offended. So I will leave it at this. Nothing I can say or do will make any difference.

Peter

Subject:RE: To the people at Sonic Foundry

Reply by: pwppch

Date:9/23/2002 8:47:46 AM

>>The only issue I have had is that rendering from Acid is horribly out of sync - the Fruity track gets rendered about seven and a half beats later than the rest of the Acid project. I've sent details to SoFo and posted on the Fruity tech support forum, but nothing from either yet :(
<<
I have discovered the cause of this. Currently there is no workaround. We are working on a fix.

(If you want the technical reasons for the problem, I will be more than happy to provide them.)

Peter

Subject:RE: To the people at Sonic Foundry

Reply by: fuzzy

Date:9/23/2002 9:14:43 AM

Neil, I'm using the windows classic driver (I don't have an ASIO compatible card yet) but I can still get good performance with ACID at 10 ms believe it or not. So perhaps the driver is causing the offset.

Have you examined the sync carefully (it's easy to overlook 23 ticks if you're listening to a full mix). I set up a simple closed hi hat loop in Fruity and rendered it as an Acid loop, then added the loop to an ACID project. I then added the original Fruity version of the hi hats as a VSTi. When I played them both together there is an offset. I moved the wave loop upstream until it was in sync and measured an offset of 23 ticks.

Could I ask a favour of you Neil and get you to switch to the classic drivers to see if you get an offset? I'm just curious to know if it is a specific sound-card problem - although I doubt it because n-Track keeps perfect sync with Fruity here.

I'd appreciate your help, thanks.

fuzzy

Subject:RE: To the people at Sonic Foundry

Reply by: Neil_Palfreyman

Date:9/23/2002 10:45:21 AM

Sonic - dont worry about the explanation - I probably wouldn't understand it anyway :) ...just happy to know you've reproduced it and are working on a fix. If there's anything I can do to help (more diagnostics etc) just let me know.

Subject:RE: To the people at Sonic Foundry

Reply by: Neil_Palfreyman

Date:9/23/2002 10:50:55 AM

fuzzy,

I tested the timing using a very similar method - a simple Kick pattern rendered to wav in Fruity then imported as a track in Acid playing alongside the same pattern in Fruity VSTi.

I'll try the classic driver tonight when I get home (about 2h time) and let you know what I find.

Subject:RE: To the people at Sonic Foundry

Reply by: Sroznik2

Date:9/23/2002 11:31:23 AM

Wow--Didn't realize I was starting something. I surely wasn't trying to "stir the pot" as they say.

I'm just a Milwaukee, WI local musician, a college student and a fulltime mommy to a toddler. We don't have a lot of cash. My husband and I make a little extra $$$ recording other people and I teach piano and record my students.

I've got a little recording engineering training and some programming experience, but not as much as some of the people in this forum. I surely do not claim to fully understand the intricate, technical nature of this problem.

I'd be happy if I could record my students and maybe create some new music. That's why I initially liked Sonic Foundry--the user-friendly, non-complicated interface. I could concentrate on creating, not engineering. I don't have a lot of time either to spend troubleshooting.

The bottom line for me is that if I can't make it work, then it is useless to me. I am out the money that I paid and we don't have a lot of that either.

My husband read through this thread before going to work and he was livid. He is a performing musician and also works as a telecom/computer networking technician and knows what its like to troubleshoot things for customers. He wanted to add that Acid 4.0a does not work on our US-428 either. In this case, it just freezes up So I guess that eliminate the M-Audio only thing.

Anyhow... I sure could use some help. I will provide as much information as I possibly can if it will solve anything. Guess I'll call M-Audio and Sonic Foundry Tech support but it was good to see that other people (not just me) are having similar problems.

And Victors, I have to agree with you. Customer service just aint what it used to be. <sigh>

Subject:RE: To the people at Sonic Foundry

Reply by: TeeCee

Date:9/23/2002 12:19:41 PM

Another reason to not use the "every other software company can work with my sound card" approach to Sonic Foundry is that from what I've seen, Peter Haller does not use the approach everyone else uses to programming. He likes to understand what he's programming and use it to its fullest extent, not just use the sample code provided with the SDK. This isn't the first time him and his fellow programmers have exposed someone else's bugs. He also used to write sound card drivers for Windows NT back when everyone blamed NT for bad MIDI timing and he proved that it wasn't NT because his drivers (which he sold independently) rocked.

He won't tell you this because he's working for us users and trying to be nice and get Acid 4.0 straight, but he's one of the biggest reasons I buy Sonic Foundry software. The other reasons are functionality and usability. As a reference, I've had no crashes in WinXP using Acid 4.0 with the Delta beta drivers. I could crash Acid 3.0 or Vegas Video 3.0 with a specific right click and then a left click on Windows 98SE. But that was apparently a problem with my system as it doesn't happen since I installed XP.

If you and called the latest version of my software baby buggy and untested, I wouldn't be able to take Peter's level headed, customer oriented response. I know all of the Acid 4.0 users with issues are extremely upset, but I would bet Peter has lost more sleep over these issues than all of you combined.

TeeCee

Subject:RE: To the people at Sonic Foundry

Reply by: Neil_Palfreyman

Date:9/23/2002 12:56:52 PM

Fuzzy,

I owe you an apology - I re-did the same test with a very short transient sound and I can indeed hear an offset (in both WDM and ASIO.) But this increases or decreases as I adjust the buffer size, so I think its purely as a result of latency.

I've never used Fruity VSTi in any other host, so I dont know if its "normal."

How did you "move the wave upstream" and measure the offset, btw?

If I do an event slide using the mouse I have to move it about 700 samples (at 48k) to get back in sync.

Subject:RE: To the people at Sonic Foundry

Reply by: pwppch

Date:9/23/2002 3:52:18 PM

Fuzzy,

Do you think you could send me (peterh@sonicfoundry.com) the test project you created including the FL setup if any? I'd like to make sure we nail this one.

Thanks
Peter

Subject:RE: To the people at Sonic Foundry

Reply by: fuzzy

Date:9/24/2002 3:23:59 AM

Peter,

It's pretty easy to set up the test as I described in an earlier post, but I've emailed my example to you. Good luck.

Neil,

Thanks for taking a closer look - now I know it's not just me.

I've never used Fruity VSTi in any other host, so I don't know if its "normal."

It's definitely not normal. n-Track keeps prefect sync with FL VSTi, no matter what the buffer settings are.

How did you "move the wave upstream" and measure the offset, btw?

Disable grid snap and move the wave loop upstream (toward the start of the track) until there is no audible offset. Then zoom in as far as possible, and note the tick value (on the ruler) where the loop starts (it should be somewhere in the late 600's - early 700's). Subtract that value from 768 and that's how much ACID is lagging behind Fruity.

fuzzy

Subject:Getting back to the issue...

Reply by: mtb

Date:9/24/2002 4:06:26 AM

to...eh hem, get back onto practicalities and reply to a much earlier question/post from SonicPCH about anyone still experiencing 4.0/Delta issues...

I full uninstalled 3.0 and loaded 4.0 on the weekend. Everything sounded awful (distorted, playing half speed). Have an M-Audio Delta 2496 so I updated the drivers to the Beta on the M-audio site but still seem to be having the same problem. When I switch to the basic Windows soundcard it's fine (if a little delayed) but switch to the M-audio and it barely plays.
Weirdly, the Delta card is fine with a project I started making in 4.0 but goes pear shaped for any old 3.0 projects I open in 4.0.

Got an important project I need to finish so I'm getting desperate...anyone got any insights?

Other Specs:
PIII 1Ghz
384MB RAM
XP Home

Subject:RE: To the people at Sonic Foundry

Reply by: Jayson

Date:9/27/2002 8:52:30 PM

I have a home recording with 5 PC's. All have different processors but the same OS Windows ME. I first tried version 4.0 demo. Everytime I would press play the program crashed. It gave me this messages before closing.

(error message)

Sonic Foundry ACID Pro 4.0 DEMO
Version 4.0 (Build 215)
Exception 0xC0000005 (access violation) READ:0xAFE4104 IP:0xC
In Module 'ACID40.EXE' at Address 0x0 + 0xC
Thread: GUI ID=0xFFC7F039 Stack=0xC2E000-0xC30000
Registers:
EAX=03aa170c CS=0187 EIP=0000000c EFLGS=00010286
EBX=00000000 SS=018f ESP=00c2ed50 EBP=00000000
ECX=00000000 DS=018f ESI=03aa14fc FS=4137
EDX=0062e368 ES=018f EDI=03aa1754 GS=0000
Bytes at CS:EIP:
0000000C: .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ........
00000014: .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ........
Stack Dump:
00C2ED50: 01186DAB 01000000 + 186DAB (ACID40K.DLL)
00C2ED54: 03AA170C 03A80000 + 2170C
00C2ED58: 00000007
00C2ED5C: 0062E368 00400000 + 22E368 (ACID40.EXE)
00C2ED60: 00000000
00C2ED64: 00000000
00C2ED68: 00000000
00C2ED6C: 00000000
00C2ED70: 00000000
00C2ED74: 00A9ACA4 00A00000 + 9ACA4
00C2ED78: 00A9AC9C 00A00000 + 9AC9C
00C2ED7C: 00A9AC9C 00A00000 + 9AC9C
00C2ED80: FFFFFFFF
00C2ED84: 0118E0AC 01000000 + 18E0AC (ACID40K.DLL)
00C2ED88: 00000003
00C2ED8C: FFFFFFFF
> 00C2EDA4: 011834E9 01000000 + 1834E9 (ACID40K.DLL)
00C2EDA8: 00A9AC9C 00A00000 + 9AC9C
00C2EDAC: 00C2EDC4 00B20000 + 10EDC4
00C2EDB0: 00000000
00C2EDB4: 00000000
> 00C2EDD0: 018F018F 018E0000 + 1018F (SFMARKET2.DLL)
00C2EDD4: FFFFFFFF
00C2EDD8: FFFFFFFF
00C2EDDC: 05107DF4 050E0000 + 27DF4
00C2EDE0: 0000090F
> 00C2EDFC: 005CA69F 00400000 + 1CA69F (ACID40.EXE)
- - -
00C2FFF0: 459F4176 35690000 + 10364176
00C2FFF4: 84CC7FEC 84CC6000 + 1FEC
00C2FFF8: BFF7A24F BFF60000 + 1A24F (KERNEL32.DLL)
00C2FFFC: 00000000
(End of Error)

What does it all mean, huh?
I always find it funny when companies think you don't know your system, or in my case systems. I build and repair PC's. So I know this stuff. When I wrote SonicFoundry's tech support to report the problem here's what they wrote.

(Start of E-mail)
Thank you for the email. On the system you are running, do you have
the latest 4 in 1 driver from VIA installed? Also, when was the last time
you had updated your Turtle Beach sound card. If you have the capability,
we would suggest running the latest updated ASIO drivers from this
manufacturer's website.
Press Ctrl+Alt+Del at the same time and you will see a list of the
programs currently running on your system. You would only need two of these
items to keep your computer up and running. These would be Explorer and
Systray. You could End Task on everything else in this list. Some things
may be stubborn, and you may have to close out of them two or three times
before you are able to get rid of it. ***Be careful when you are closing
out of these tasks that you DO NOT press Ctrl+Alt+Del two times in a row as
it would cause your system to Restart and start this process over.

***Please include any previous strings with regards to this email when
replying for further assistance***

If you have any further questions please feel free reply to this email or to
contact any of our Customer Service Representatives at 1900.407.6642
weekdays from 9 AM till 5 PM CST.

Matt Berger
Customer Service
Sonic Foundry

(end of email message)

Here's my system:
SpaceWalker Shuttle Hot-591P Motherboard (w/ the lastest Via 4 and 1 Drivers and BIOS upgrade)

2-AMD K6-III 550MHZ CPU (Fast CPU that out performs Intel's crap)

256MB PC100 SDRAM (Micronic name brand)

Maxtor ATA-100 Hard drive controller w/ all Maxtor 7200 RPM Drives

Windows ME with all updated drivers and fixes

Nvidia GeForce2 MX400 32MB Video Card

Turtle Beach Montego II Quadzilla Sound Card (lastest drives from turtle beach)

...now I have no software loading up when my system starts up but systray and explorer. My system resources are at 98% free on start up. I have tweaked my registry to it's optimal performance. I've gotten ritten all the junk I don't use and need on my system. My machine cooks and has never had a problem with any software in the past other than minor bugs in the developers code. And even then, I have help solve many problems with software. I am a Beta test for AOL DSL high speed service. I've beta tested for Microsoft's Windows in the past. I feel that SF may have attempt to rewrite there code to gain performance, improve speed and add newer features for the 4.0 version. But everyone here in this forum knows there is a real problem with 4.0. I'd like to offer my services for free to beta test on all 5 of my machines the next revision. Only when the software works I would buy it. I'm not going to buy a piece of software I can't use. Looking for answers from someone, I saw resently 4.0a was ready to try. Even worst then the first one. This version won't even start. It crashes on start up. Acid is a defective product that should be recalled.

Subject:RE: To the people at Sonic Foundry

Reply by: SHTUNOT

Date:9/27/2002 11:11:02 PM

Thanks for taking the time with the bug list...

1. I've given up a long time ago on trying to make win me work for a audio/video daw...I would say get yourself a copy of XP home. Difference to me is night and day.
2. If I had a dime for every time I've read on forums on the web about staying clear away from VIA chipsets I could have built a AVID system by now.
3. What registry tweaks are being performed prior to installation. In XP Pro all I do is just turn off all the extra GUI crap to the bare minimum.

Again 4.0a is BETTER on my system. 4.0 was terrible.

What other audio software do you own that works great on your system?

Thanks again...Later.

Subject:RE: To the people at Sonic Foundry

Reply by: Jayson

Date:9/28/2002 9:46:03 AM

I have Calkwalk Audio Pro. Works rock soild. I also have Magix studio maker G6. Works great. Digital Orch Audio Pro, works fine. I have never had a problem out of my 3 Via chipset motherboards. I only get what works. Here's how my studio works. I have 5 PC's the lower two which is a AMD K6-III 550 mhz on a shuttle motherboard. This is a sweet machine dude. I use it to control midi data only. I record all my keyboards to this and my keyboard patches too. I use a AMD Duron 1.0 Ghz machine for recording audio tracks, vocals and things like that. When I load a song I load differnt parts on different machines. Sync then all thru my network using a midi program that lets you route your midi data thru your network. Works great and is fast too. My top machine AMD XP 1600 handles the mix. When I'm done recording all my tracks, I play the synced tracks thru my yamaha mixer into 2 digital audio tracks. I also control my yamaha digital mixer from this machine. No machine is handling to much. Each machine doing it's own thing. The sound is great.

The reason I use the same OS on all my machines is to avoid incompatiblity problems. I use the same tools on all my machine thru the network. Works great. I wanted a chage from the software I've been using to piece it all together when I saw Acid 4.0. I read the features and thought it was great. But it's all hype. I'll stick to what works. I've been looking at Magix products. They now support DX plug-ins and VST instruments too. And pack all kind's of tools and a wav samplers too.

Subject:RE: To the people at Sonic Foundry

Reply by: Jayson

Date:9/28/2002 10:09:56 AM

Plus I don't know how much of a real performace gain would I get from my AMD K6II 550 Mhz machine and my two K6III 550 Mhz machines using XP. It may slow them down. Now on my newer Duron or AMD XP machine it may be fine. If I needed XP SonicFoundry should have said I need XP and not list ME as a requirement that's all. I wouldn't have messed with it and would have looked somewhere else. I have no problems with ME. I run all kinds of programs. Do all kinds of stuff with my machine. Except run Acid 4.0 and Acid 4.0a. I'm going to stop wasting my time here and stop posting. All my machines rock too. This is my first real problem with any software.

Subject:RE: To the people at Sonic Foundry

Reply by: Maruuk

Date:9/28/2002 2:00:57 PM

Jayson--You are not a voice crying in the wilderness. 4.0 has been the first experience with major failure for very many users who continue to successfully run the whole gamut of sophisticated music apps from other publishers on 98 and ME with "average" hardware and setups. This divide-to-conquer crap where poor users are singled out and attacked because their new AP 4.0 crashes and burns on non-perfect DAW's has got to stop.

4.0 sucks. It is incredibly unstable and buggy. Let it be known, hear ye hear ye. Ok, now let's deal with it without all this spin and posturing.

You dudes and dudettes with less-than-perfect rigs probably ought to wait it out in 3.0-land or try other, non-beta apps until SOFO gets it together.

There, was that so painful to face?