Subject:I am Done. I am out.

Posted by: Vocalpoint

Date:9/21/2002 7:46:41 PM

Well...I thought 4.0a was going to be the one but I was wrong. Back to 3.0g I go. Can anyone get anything done with this crash happy app? Is anyone really pushing it (softsynths etc...)or are you just dropping in loops here and there.

Also - this M-Audio driver issue has me worried. I am not about to jeopardize a perfectly good production environment because of Acid 4.0a. Is anyone using the Delta 66 out there who has gone to the Acid 4.0 beta driver? Any reports...does it effect anything else?

Update when you can.

Cheers,

Cuzin B

Subject:RE: I am Done. I am out.

Reply by: AgentS

Date:9/21/2002 9:12:38 PM

since installing ap 4.0a with the beta m-audio delta series drivers I have been getting a severe system lock-up whereby I get a terribly loud oscillating noise and my system completely freezes up, the only thing that I can do is press the rest button.

It`s brain damage and annoying since it is a totally intermittent problem, I could go a whole day without it happening then suddenly bang - it will do it three or 4 times throughout a production session.

This is definately not related to my system configuration or hardware/cooling/temp. etc.. since I have spent alot of time perfecting my system and making it as stable as possible.

I have only started to see this problem since the installation of Acid 3.0 and now 4.0.

I have an Abit KG7 Mboard with a VIA chipset - this has had seriuos conflicts with my soundcard in the past but I thought they were resolved.

IT`S STRANGE THAT I ONLY BEGIN QUERYING MY SYSTEMS' STABILITY WHEN I RUN ACID. OUT OF ALL THE EXPERIMENTAL AND PROTOTYPE SOFTWARE I HAVE RUN IN MY 15+ YEARS EXPERIENCE WITH COMPUTERS ACID TAKES THE BISCUIT IN TERMS OF FRUSTRATION LEVELS FROM BUGS -
HOWEVER..........
IT ALSO IS THE MOST EXCITING AND REVOLUTIONARY SOFTWARE I HAVE EVER RUN, THIS SOMEHOW STOPS ME FROM SMASHING UP MY COMPUTER AND TEARING MY FINGERNAILS OUT.
hardware sequencing prevents the need for therapy

Subject:RE: I am Done. I am out.

Reply by: Dewaine

Date:9/21/2002 9:41:19 PM

I too am tired of it. All I can really say is that I am glad I have Sonar 2. I had Acid Music 3, never used it because it did not really do anything but play loops. I got the offer ($99) for Acid 4.0 and thought I would give it a try. It would not work with FruityLoops, vsti's messed up, very weak midi features....etc. Now with 4.0a it does work with Fruity, but so what. I cannot do music in an environment where I have to fear every-time I do anything that it will crash. I have Fxpansion vst/dx in Sonar 2 and everything works fine. I REALLY wanted to like acid....

Many here say that Acid is revolutionary and I just don't see it. Even if 4.0 worked perfect (and that is a HUGE if) what can Acid do that Sonar 2 can't? To me if you are doing any serious midi Acid just does not cut it..... I hope I do not make anyone mad hear, I really do want to like Acid but at this time I just don't see the point and will not spend anymore money on it.

Subject:RE: I am Done. I am out.

Reply by: mmzz

Date:9/21/2002 11:04:33 PM

shit i just installed the demo and this has to be the most crash happy software i have ever seen. cant seem to get it to run for more than a minute or two. something as simple as adjusting the volume crashes the thing.

less time building battlebots!!! more time programming!!!

i knew the whole laid back hip company thing would start acting up one day.

~e

Subject:RE: I am Done. I am out.

Reply by: Studio_de_Lara

Date:9/21/2002 11:09:33 PM

So far 4.0a has been good to me. I have the M-Audio Rbus card, with the new drivers. Once I dialed in my buffer size (512) all is well (so far).
No crashes, no problems. I continually save while I produce/play and I have no problems.
I am using a VIA chipset as well.
Rich

Subject:RE: I am Done. I am out.

Reply by: DataCowboy

Date:9/21/2002 11:17:42 PM

It sucks that you guys are having so many problems, but I don't think anyone will blame you for doing the math and seeing that in your situation the time payoff may not be there.
The unfortunate reality of audio software is that it is always a gamble as to whether it will work well on your system, and for 3-5% of the population any given audio app will simply fail for them because of some nearly impossible to diagnose conflict or driver problem.

As a longtime user of both Acid and Cakewalk products (including Sonar), I'd say that *for making loop-based audio* Acid is equal or better in all aspects. The UI is simple and elegant and extremely efficient, the stretching algoritms have always sounded much better, and the focus of the design on loop-based audio prevents menu, feature, and hotkey clutter. Sonar has, by design, far better MIDI handling though.

I think Acid's revolutionary aspect has faded since its first release, to be more evolutionary now, but that's because everyone's been copying them for three+ years.

Hex
www.freesidemusic.com

Subject:RE: I am Done. I am out.

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:9/22/2002 8:25:56 AM

You know - I thought to myself (much to my chagrin) "I have been running an extremely stable ship for over a year, so maybe all these Acid 4.0 problems folks are having are being caused by their systems" So I dived in - I have been a devoted SF customer for years but this app is simply not ready for prime time. SF must think that no one is going to push the product in any way or cares about stability in a real production environment.

Also - back to the driver issues with the Delta cards - it was nice of SF to identify a possible conflict with the Delta driver and notify M-Audio to do a fix but in the real world where real work is being done - Here's the news - "If it ain't broke - don't start *uckin around with it." All my apps (including Acid 3.0g) work fantastic with the current Delta driverset...no one that I work with will even think about changing to a "beta" audio driver to use in front of real customers.

I have tried 4.0a for at most 2 hours and I have had at least 10 different weird messages...the 11th and last one was "Uninstalling Acid 4.0a" That was the most satisfying of all....Back on 3.0g and life is good.

Cheers,

Cuzin B

Subject:RE: I am Done. I am out.

Reply by: Sroznik

Date:9/22/2002 12:47:01 PM

This is an interesting note. We have three studio workstations here. One runs XP professional (the "good" studio), one runs Windows 98 - our midi-focused studio, and one runs Windows Me--a writing project studio for rough drafts.

Acid 4.0 pro only runs crash free on WINDOWS 98 SE here. That might be a clue for the SF people.

I have updated my Delta 1010 driver, but I surely will not accept any kind of a driver from another company other than M-Audio, since they did not create the hardware and my sound card is working fine with all the other software.

Sonic Foundry needs to consider that it may be an operating system related problem and how the software interacts with the operating system -- not necessarily a sound card driver issue. Gheeze-- I wish they would AT LEAST CONSIDER IT instead of passing the buck! But the same goes for M-Audio. They need to take responsibility too. UGH! I give up.

I had such high hopes for this product. I think the looping capabilities and user interface on Acid is unmatched. The concept behind the product is great--especially with the new midi editor and ASIO. But the product has to at least function, guys. This was a sorely premature release. Beta testing is one thing, but c'mon guys.

Subject:RE: I am Done. I am out.

Reply by: TeeCee

Date:9/23/2002 1:20:06 PM

I've spent pushing 10 solid hours of Acid 4.0 use with the beta drivers in a project with a soft synth and FX automation. I looped the project for a solid two hours to test the thermal capabilities of two heat sinks (9°F difference between the two). No problems. I switched to the beta driver halfway through a SONAR project using external synths, software synths, and looping, no problems. I never tried Acid 4.0 without the beta driver or Acid 4.0a at all. I run Windows XP on a VIA chipset.

TeeCee

Subject:RE: I am Done. I am out. (Wait - I am back in!)

Reply by: Vocalpoint

Date:9/23/2002 1:25:23 PM

All,

Since I wrote this first post, I gave in and grabbed the beta Delta driver and installed 4.0a in a non-production environment. Seems like the M-Audio changes to the beta driver are real small since it hasn't effected any of my other apps.

So far Acid 4.0a seems to be holding up. I haven't had a ton of test time but I will pound on it tonight for a while...I will update after some more testing...

Cheers,

Cuzin B

Subject:RE: I am Done. I am out.

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:9/23/2002 2:11:56 PM

There are those who have apparent problems on Win 98SE when using ACID 4.0. It's really not OS-specific based upon my observations thus far.

My viewpoint? These are PC's we're dealing with here. With the huge amount of different makes, models, and configurations, they're not perfect and they never will be, despite just about everyone's effort to make them an appliance. (I guess that's the closet nihilist in me.) Even the mighty Apple, with its strigent standards and control, has its share of problems. I once heard (I think it was someone from The Sisters of Mercy) that the Mac crashes just as much as PC's do, only it does it with more style and in prettier colors.

As George Ware (MacMoney) stated in another post, I am more than willing to help anyone in any way that I can. Like him, I am also having a ball with 4.0a.

Iacobus