Acid levels? -ACID Product Family - MAGIX Community Forums Archive

Subject:Acid levels? Posted by: geetarboy Date:9/17/2002 8:19:50 AM I have always tried to keep to the rule that all level should be set below 0db. In other words, when working with Acid 3.0, all the tracks will be set no higher than 0. Now that I am at the mix down-mastering stage, I have noticed that what sounds great by itself and sounds way to quiet compared to professional tracks. I have tried importing a similar song (ex. I will load a song from coldplay into my Acid project) into my mix-keeping it muted-and using it to compare levels. I can get the levels to match but I am clipping. My mix will still sound good..but if I am clipping; am I shooting myself in the foot? Should I fix this problem in mastering? I wish there was an industry standard db level. Thanks
Subject:RE: Acid levels? Reply by: spesimen Date:9/17/2002 11:14:56 AM those professional tracks you're comparing with certainly have at least a bit of limiting on them from the mastering stage, so to match those levels you'll need to do the same. there isn't exactly a 'standard' dB range for releases but almost all modern releases for dance/rock/etc are in the -14 to -8 dB range (rms values)..some go even higher although those are usually audibly damaged from the limiting.. classical usually is a bit lower since they still actually use dynamic range and stuff :) bob katz was attempting to set a standard of -14dB in his paper at the AES from a few years back called "an integrated approach to metering and leveling in the 21st century" (or something close to that) ..definitely a good read on this topic, it's availble to download at www.digido.com ...essentially he's referring to the fact that they do have an established volume standard in the film industry, and there's no reason why music peeps couldn't follow the same (or similar) standard..instead of making tracks louder and louder while killing any dynamic range.. the "keep everything under 0" rule isn't really necessary since the headroom before you hit the final stage is much higher then the resolution you get when it's done at 16-bit at the end. but i'd definitely recommend keeping the final master level at 0. to preserve the best accuracy, do the limiting from within acid by adding a limiter right to the master slider - then it's at 0, and your peaks will never clip, and you can ajdust the overall gain of the mix by altering the gain on all of your tracks at the same time (one very handy feature in acid that a lot of apps don't have), and also by controlling how hard the limiter bites into it.. there are plugins like "sc stat" out there which show the rms value of your mix so you can control the level to match your desired volume right from the get go. or you can do a mixdown and analyze the rms in an editor and then re-adjust it, etc.. either way it's definitely important to not have that clipping, so keeping it lower and then mastering the level up will give you much better results in the end, especially if you're using 24-bit..
Subject:RE: Acid levels? Reply by: geetarboy Date:9/17/2002 10:03:23 PM Thanks for all the info. I am going to check out the article now. Thanks again!

those professional tracks you're comparing with certainly have at least a bit of limiting on them from the mastering stage, so to match those levels you'll need to do the same.

there isn't exactly a 'standard' dB range for releases but almost all modern releases for dance/rock/etc are in the -14 to -8 dB range (rms values)..some go even higher although those are usually audibly damaged from the limiting.. classical usually is a bit lower since they still actually use dynamic range and stuff :)

bob katz was attempting to set a standard of -14dB in his paper at the AES from a few years back called "an integrated approach to metering and leveling in the 21st century" (or something close to that) ..definitely a good read on this topic, it's availble to download at www.digido.com ...essentially he's referring to the fact that they do have an established volume standard in the film industry, and there's no reason why music peeps couldn't follow the same (or similar) standard..instead of making tracks louder and louder while killing any dynamic range..

the "keep everything under 0" rule isn't really necessary since the headroom before you hit the final stage is much higher then the resolution you get when it's done at 16-bit at the end. but i'd definitely recommend keeping the final master level at 0. to preserve the best accuracy, do the limiting from within acid by adding a limiter right to the master slider - then it's at 0, and your peaks will never clip, and you can ajdust the overall gain of the mix by altering the gain on all of your tracks at the same time (one very handy feature in acid that a lot of apps don't have), and also by controlling how hard the limiter bites into it.. there are plugins like "sc stat" out there which show the rms value of your mix so you can control the level to match your desired volume right from the get go. or you can do a mixdown and analyze the rms in an editor and then re-adjust it, etc..

either way it's definitely important to not have that clipping, so keeping it lower and then mastering the level up will give you much better results in the end, especially if you're using 24-bit..