anyone have an idea of when the 4.0a is gonna be released !!! -ACID Product Family

ACID Product Family

Subject:anyone have an idea of when the 4.0a is gonna be released !!! Posted by: slcrz Date:9/10/2002 7:54:05 AM I just wanned to know.
Subject:RE: anyone have an idea of when the 4.0a is gonna be released !!! Reply by: Djipy Date:9/10/2002 12:33:47 PM Not too soon, I hope. It takes time to implement powerful MIDI editing... ;)
Subject:RE: anyone have an idea of when the 4.0a is gonna be released !!! Reply by: Maruuk Date:9/10/2002 3:47:09 PM You mean the time it takes to implement ReWire!!!
Subject:RE: anyone have an idea of when the 4.0a is gonna be released !!! Reply by: skysurfer Date:9/11/2002 3:16:28 PM Insisting on Rewire shows that you haven´t understood the concept of Acid and the philosphy behind it. Can you see how outrageous this first version of 4.0 already is ? Have you noticed how many great ideas have been integrated in this program ? Acid is an autonomic entity and should stay as such. AND ITS ONLY THE BEGINNING.....
Subject:RE: anyone have an idea of when the 4.0a is gonna be released !!! Reply by: David_Kuznicki Date:9/11/2002 4:01:48 PM I have to chime in here... and unfortunately, I have to say that Maruuk is correct. As much as I WANT to say 'enough is enough, we get your point,' I have to admit-- I'm going to hold off on buying another version of Acid until ReWire functionality is intigrated. Why? Because I think Reason is a good, no, great program, but I'm getting a little tired of having to constantly move across platforms. Because, at least on the surface, it appears that Acid's VSTi support is lacking. I'm just starting to move away from using simple step sequencers vs. a Midi interface (I am, by NO means, a trained musician), and I'd like the option of using Reason (and whatever else comes down the pipe) WHILE using Acid, and having the option of making changes on the fly. And mostly, I'd like ReWire added to Acid because I think that Sonar is ugly, clumsy, and not quite as functional as the combination of Vegas, Acid and Sound Forge. David.
Subject:RE: anyone have an idea of when the 4.0a is gonna be released !!! Reply by: Iacobus Date:9/11/2002 4:10:23 PM I'll have to chime in too. ;o) I don't frankly see what all the hubbub is about as far as ReWire goes, but then again, I'm a "hands-on" type of musician. I will say this, though: If you don't have ACID Pro 4.0, you're missing out on some fantastic audio fidelity. Projects are noticably clearer sounding in this version vs. ACID Pro 3.0. That, to me, is definitely worth the upgrade. Iacobus
Subject:RE: anyone have an idea of when the 4.0a is gonna be released !!! Reply by: forlornsoul Date:9/11/2002 4:48:38 PM I got word back from support the other day saying hopefully the end of this week. I had crashes like you wouldn't believe when using VST's for adding to my midi composition sound(s) and rendering to wav or mp3 format at 35% where it crapped out. Next day it worked ok and did again today after I added another loop to my current track I am working on finishing (Rise of the Nameless One - dark ambient). Hopefully this update will fix some of their more serious problems with these intermittent crashes.... Mike
Subject:RE: anyone have an idea of when the 4.0a is gonna be released !!! Reply by: SHTUNOT Date:9/11/2002 6:07:15 PM I'll have to chime in too... I was looking forward to rewire myself but couldn't see myself using acid 3 when MOST of my audio requests are in acid 4! ie:5.1 surround mixing!!!!!!!!!,dx automation,vsti's[even in their primitive state],alternate time signatures,BUS TRACKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;),asio[NO WDM :( ]ETC...It just fits my workflow perfectly!!! I just can't fathom anybody passing up this upgrade for only $99[Still shaking my head over it]. I passed up buying acid 2.0 because THAT I thought was a crappy upgrade!!! But from version 3 to 4...? Personally I would like to hear from some users who are using rewire successfully either with Sonar/cubase SX/etc...with reason. Any bugs or problems with those systems that WE should look out for? I have heard that there are some. Everybody wants rewire but NOBODY is posting any real world specs on how much can get done via a 600MHZ intel or a 1.2 amd athlon. Any 2.8 ghzs intel users yet? How many reason components in its "virtual" rack can you have running in "real time" without crashes/clicks etc...Any sync problems/rendering issues? Don't forget to give your track count+effects+automation+midi+vst/dxi's...Is anyone running a dual Xeon or Athlon MP successfully with either of these systems? For shits and giggles can anyone with BOTH Sonar 2.0 AND Cubase SX try to do this experiment for me...[I don't have Cubase SX]... 1. Set up Sonar to mimick Acid 4.0 as closely as possible: ie:turn off all track meters and use only features that acid 4 has[dx automation,loops,recorded tracks,etc] 2. Take turns between cubase being master/slave to sonar then vice versa.[ie: start up sonar THEN hook up SX to it...etc.] 3. Try to start off ONLY using loops in sonar and the rest of the work in cubase. 4. Try throwing in reason as well if possible.[not sure...Is the link for only 2 apps or more? ie:Sonar to cubase+reason,Cubase to sonar+reason,or Cubase+sonar+reason? 5. Any other suggestions? ;) Does this work? Any crashes/clicks etc...Any sync problems/rendering issues? I'm really curious about the outcome of this test. I know that this is far from what running acid "rewired" to either would be like but I would really like to know. And I would greatly appreciate anyones efforts by doing this. Later.
Subject:RE: anyone have an idea of when the 4.0a is gonna be released !!! Reply by: Om_Audio Date:9/11/2002 8:07:20 PM I don't get it- set Acid to send midi clock- set Reason to slave- hardwire it or use MidiYoke or SF midi router- and have fun. Export what you like from Reason and bring it into Acid. I've tried it- works fine. Om
Subject:no REWIRE FOR 4.0a Reply by: Jacose Date:9/11/2002 10:31:00 PM maybe for 4.1, but SOFO really has to optomize the features that are there NOW, as well as exterminate the multitude of bugs that are everpresent in the system. Better midi editing and bug fixes should be concentrated on in this version,. as well as vsti tempo sync. rewire is a new feature and should be added in for a .1 release. or .5
Subject:RE: no REWIRE FOR 4.0a Reply by: midihead Date:9/12/2002 12:25:40 AM Here, here. I'm grateful for the simple midi additions. I was actually able to record a bass line from my Virus and then quantize it/play it back and record. As nutty as it sounds, I've been using Acid pretty much exclusively for my music since version 2. I record all of my outboard gear and vocals live and track it in Acid. I've been pushing the envelope on this proggie since v.2 and have definitely been bugging SOFO about implementing more MIDI functionality for years now. I use Reason too, but only to lay down a melody with the synths or create drum loops. I export what I need and import it into Acid, where I can then pull up Sound Forge and make necessary edits on the fly. I personally don't see the need for ReWire. If I wanted ReWire I'd be using Cubase (which is a counter-intuitive program). It just seems to me that if you're going to be exporting the audio anyway, why bother with ReWire? I think the new features are a God send. I would like to see the effect automation work with more effects, and definately better VSTI support but other than that I don't have any complaints.
Subject:RE: NO REWIRE NEEDED in 4.0a Reply by: skysurfer Date:9/12/2002 2:03:03 AM Acid gives us so much innovation in its version 4.0, just see it as a beginning. There are so many ways to turn around Rewire(midi clock-hardwire- SOFO VMR midi router...), i really dont feel the need for it and i would´nt dare bother the developers of SOFO with it. (Why expensively licence something from Propellerheads when SOFO has its own original ingenousity that blows everything away ?) The workflow in Acid, Vegas and Soundforge incl. the new great audio fidelity is simply amazing. Put in there vsti tempo sync and some debugging and the package for 4.0a is complete.
Subject:RE: anyone have an idea of when the 4.0a is gonna be released !!! Reply by: antistar Date:9/12/2002 4:40:05 AM I'd be really happy, if ACID 4.0a were a bugfixed version without additional functionality. I still dream of an ACID 4.0, which gets beyond the splash window.... I do not even dare to think about using VST-s... If anyone from SOFO is reading this, could he please give an answer? so when, please when will be ACID 4.0a out?
Subject:RE: anyone have an idea of when the 4.0a is gonna be released !!! Reply by: slcrz Date:9/12/2002 8:03:51 AM I'm now looking everyday waiting for that 4.0a release to be out, Can't take it anymore....i'm going to....AAAaaaaahhhhhhh.... I want it ... Plz SOFO ease my pain by giving us a clue on the date. Tx :)
Subject:REWIRE IS COOL, but not now, not for 4.0a Reply by: Jacose Date:9/12/2002 8:27:33 AM There are so many ways to turn around Rewire(midi clock-hardwire- SOFO VMR midi router...), i really dont feel the need for it and i would´nt dare bother the developers of SOFO with it. first off, MIDI routers may start programs at the same time (when they work) but they do no send the audio from one program to another. this is called co-rendering and is nessecary for the uttmostly effecient recording and mixing process. SO MIDI routing does not EVEN come CLOSE. and rewire is SO EASY that it sounds really good, but only if ACID AND VEGAS have it. (Why expensively licence something from Propellerheads when SOFO has its own original ingenousity that blows everything away ?) I dont believe there is a charge for using this technilogy, sort of like VSti, just put propellerheads name on it. All in all, rewire is a great and easy to apply solution, I think (?) but OTHER PROBLEMS NEED TO BE TAKEN CARE OF FIRST. sonic foudnry opened up a whole new can of beans with this release, and needs to get on top of them for 4.0a (Bugs, MIDI editing, bpm Sync and so on) THEN they can make releases with new features in them. this program has so many new ablilties I would love to see 4.1 or 4.4 or 4.6 ...... dont wait till 5!!!!
Subject:the date Reply by: Jacose Date:9/12/2002 8:30:21 AM Plz SOFO ease my pain by giving us a clue on the date. its hard for them to know Im sure because they are RIGHT NOW trying to work out the bugs.. if new bugs pop up, then they have more work to do. So its probably gonnna be that you will be on the website one day and youll see it... youre probably not gonna know in advance. thats ok tho.. I hope they dont rush it.
Subject:RE: the date Reply by: Ted_H Date:9/12/2002 1:37:07 PM I don't have a specific date for you just yet, but it shouldn't be much longer. Ted
Subject:RE: the date Reply by: spesimen Date:9/13/2002 6:50:51 PM >>I don't get it- set Acid to send midi clock- set Reason to slave- >>hardwire it or use MidiYoke or SF midi router- and have fun. Export >>what you like from Reason and bring it into Acid. I've tried it- works fine. hmm.. well, like i always say to people who say they can do this, please post hardware specs, OS config, and sound card info.! I'd love to use this method but it clearly doesn't work on my system, sync is terrible and gets worse if you attempt to do any sort of manipulation of knobs in acid. not to mention looping is totally screwy. i'd love to investigate why but not a single person on this board who uses this method has ever responded in any detail..sigh.. i don't mean to rekindle the rewire debate and if you don't think you need it that's fine....but for those of use who do, don't try to rationalize away why sample-accurate sync and co-render are good things..! anyway. i still like acid 4 alot and eagerly anticipate the 4.0a ..
Subject:RE: the date Reply by: Maruuk Date:9/13/2002 7:31:54 PM Jacose--Excellent response on ReWire! I can just see the 4.0a fix list now..."4.0a addresses the following problems: (data exceeds server capacity, see Sonic Foundry AP 4.0 Bug Library, Vol. 1-999)."
Subject:RE: the date Reply by: nlamartina Date:9/13/2002 8:25:45 PM Oooo... Someone said ReWire... I cast "Maruuk" spell, +5...
Subject:....right! Reply by: Jacose Date:9/14/2002 10:52:36 AM ...could you picture 4.0a having rewire amongst all these other problems???? ha! that would be such a MESS! I really would love it if they could use rewire or a similar solution to sync Vegas and Acid tho.... ;(
Subject:RE: the date Reply by: Maruuk Date:9/14/2002 1:34:41 PM Thanks for mentioning ReWire again, nla...+6! I don't think we are ever going to hear "We don't find evidence that users are particularly interested in ReWire" from SOFO again. Oops, I said it again...
Subject:i am not particularly interested in ReWire at all Reply by: skysurfer Date:9/14/2002 3:21:59 PM i am not particularly interested in ReWire and that´s an evidence ! Send Rewire there where the sun dont shine - sick of that discussion, if you love so much Rewire go play around with Reason or Rebirth. i am particularly more interested in a 4.0 with the stability of 3.0 g LET ACID BE ACID
Subject:RE: i am not particularly interested in ReWire at all Reply by: Jacose Date:9/15/2002 1:25:49 AM i am particularly more interested in a 4.0 with the stability of 3.0 g me too, I hope they can take care of this VERY soon, but I would also like to see a way to integrate Vegas and Acid... I feel rewire could be a really cool way to do this (as I hate Cubase and Sonar) .....
Subject:RE: i am not particularly interested in ReWire at all Reply by: skysurfer Date:9/15/2002 6:52:43 AM i a agree to you Jacose, you´re the man ! Imagine to have in A4 just a more powerful Midi-editor-user interface (OPT is expandable) combined with a direct link (integrated into Acid shell) to Vegas (not Rewire but something based on SOFO technology and licence !) and we are done, -would be the perfect plateform for us...we wouldnt need any Non-SOFO host product more anymore. skysurfer
Subject:RE: i am not particularly interested in ReWire at all Reply by: Jacose Date:9/16/2002 8:18:55 AM we wouldnt need any Non-SOFO host product more anymore. right on!
Subject:RE: i am not particularly interested in ReWire at all Reply by: spesimen Date:9/16/2002 11:36:58 AM >>discussion, if you love so much Rewire go play around with Reason or Rebirth. uh. if i could go play around with reason and have it stay in sync with acid i would't be posting about the issue here now would i? :)
Subject:RE: i am not particularly interested in ReWire at all Reply by: Maruuk Date:9/16/2002 1:09:46 PM There seems to be some continuing resentment/myth over the high license fee charged by Steinberg/Propheads for ReWire technology which makes it prohibitive for SOFO to implement ReWire and would force them to develop their own complex proprietary standard... a) There is no charge for the ReWire open-standard technology, repeat, it is free as dirt, available to any publisher. b) It is technologically simple, fast, and cheap to implement--probably why every other major publisher has already done it. c) It offloads the need to load up Acid with more doohickeys. It is transparent, and lets the user decide what degree of resources to add for a given project. d) It does not crush your CPU--in fact, it allows you to hook up to apps like Reason which have a super-efficient audio and synth engine (I have a hard time getting the CPU over 15%). Why didn't the other pubs just create their own hookup standard? Because that would be like inventing your own midi standard--what's the point? ReWire works, it's free, it gives you entre to the exciting universe of top apps, it's stable, cpu-friendly, and leaves the host app alone. "We didn't think anybody wanted it." That has to rank up there with "I didn't know the gun wuz loaded" and "In hindsight, perhaps I should have taken Binladin into custody when I had the chance..."
Subject:RE: i am not particularly interested in ReWire at all Reply by: Vocalpoint Date:9/16/2002 1:31:29 PM ATTN Maruuk, There are a ton of folks here who just want to have a STABLE 4.0 without all the extra trappings (and more undiscovered bugs) that freakin' Rewire would bring. Hell - I haven't even installed 4.0 yet because of all the crashing and bad reports. So please give it an official rest would ya? About 3 weeks ago, you seemed to have finally turned off your rant...now we are subjected to the same old crap. Message for SF - Please make (4.0a) a standard but STABLE maintenance release so we can at least use the bloody program for more than 3 minutes without Dr Watson helping out on the mix. Save Rewire and crap like it for some day in the distant future when this program actually works as advertised. Cuzin B
Subject:RE: i am not particularly interested in ReWire at all Reply by: skysurfer Date:9/16/2002 2:07:21 PM well said, i hope they bring debugged 4.0a SOON coz i start to loose my nerves.......even cant use 4.0 on my old 3.0 projects...grrrr
Subject:RE: i am not particularly interested in ReWire at all Reply by: Jacose Date:9/16/2002 2:12:08 PM Message for SF - Please make (4.0a) a standard but STABLE maintenance release so we can at least use the bloody program for more than 3 minutes without Dr Watson helping out on the mix. Save Rewire and crap like it for some day in the distant future when this program actually works as advertised. good point, but I dont feel like rewire has to be THAT far away for the people that want it. I see it as a viable solution to link Vegas 4 and Acid 4. tru tho ,get Acid functioning first. I believe Maruuk agreed with this one above BTW.
Subject:RE: i am not particularly interested in ReWire at all Reply by: Maruuk Date:9/16/2002 3:43:58 PM Cuz--As usual, personally insulting ad hominem name-calling attacks on fellow posters. That's supposed to earn you banishment from the forum, but SOFO delivers on that about as well as they do on stable product revs of Acid. Now that SOFO has elected to stuff Sonar-style features into Acid, of course making that work is a major priority. Especially since it's been so horribly implemented that only a few users can make it work at all. SOFO has given us a pig so we might as well stick some lipstick on it. But before they further Sonar-ize Acid in subsequent revs, one word: don't. All the Beatles needed was love, and a billion dollars, and all we need is ReWire. If SOFO had just given us that on top of a stable 3.0, none of the current nightmare would have taken place. BTW, Cuz, I'll stop talking about ReWire when SOFO admits that users demand it. Frankly, a lot of newbies have come on here who never heard of it, and now realize they can't realize their sonic dreams without it. A number of very helpful, informative posters have clued them in to the magic of ReWire, and they've joined the growing throng demanding this free, simple, effective solution to adding soft-synths, samplers, audio, full midi spec, notation and drum machines to Acid all with perfect sync and co-rendering--a term which I coined, thank you very much. And there's one rather obsCure yet compelling feature of ReWire which distinguishes it from all the new Acid 4.0 tacked-on features: IT WORKS.
Subject:RE: i am not particularly interested in ReWire at all Reply by: Vocalpoint Date:9/16/2002 6:40:55 PM Maruuk, I have been very patiently watching you spew your Rewire dreck for at least 6 weeks now. I was impressed when you started to friendly up a bit toward the launch of 4.0. Then the child in you came out again. If you think that last little suggestion was a personal attack, you need to wake up. It was polite suggestion to let it go. There is no Rewire in your future. I'm sorry. Also - reading about how some SF personnel feel about your sorry ass, I think I am safe for awhile from banishment.
Subject:RE: i am not particularly interested in ReWire at all Reply by: SHTUNOT Date:9/16/2002 9:20:59 PM BTW, Cuz, I'll stop talking about ReWire when SOFO admits that users demand it---NOBODY demanded rewire so that "acid can be acid"...NOBODY. Yes a few people asked for it[like myself] but the crap didn't hit the fan untill Maruuk found a flaw to bitch about in acid 4 so that he could sound "witty" again. Period. I can't believe you are still harping on the fact that "rewire" wasn't added. We all get it!!!!![YES even sofo!!!] Who the hell nominated this guy as our spokesperson? I personally wouldn't have upgraded to 4.0 if it had "rewire" as its biggest update selling point. Why is it that you can find the negative in anything/EVERYTHING that sofo has done thus far? How in the hell has all the features in 4.0 been such a turnoff so that you must make your voice known over and over?[besides the bugs ofcourse] Can you really see your creativity be ruined by the lack of rewire?...common. I personally ranted like this nut after the release of vegas 3. It didn't have dx automation, Bus tracks, Vsti's...etc...I was very dissappointed but I got over it and used the product very successfully still. I made my money back and then some. Which brings me to the $99 dollar upgrade fee. IMHO you gotta be a really cheap F@ck to not upgrade your copy of acid to 4 just because its missing "rewire". Why would you still use acid without dx automation or buss tracks? Thats crazy! Are times that ruff that $99 dollars is gonna make you eat "Ramen" noodles for dinner 7 days a week? [AHHH my G.I.T. days] Consider it a investment in your music creating future and get the upgrade so that we can all have even more fun with Acid 5[with rewire]. BTW...Maruuk where in CuzinB's post did you find anything offensive to have to try and bash him with a line like:Cuz--As usual, personally insulting ad hominem name-calling attacks on fellow posters...Save that crap for me cuz I'm already tired of your negativity and "bad advice" that you spew in this forum. Checkout what I missed when Maruuk tried to make a point about a acid feature here...http://www.sonicfoundry.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?Forum=1&MessageID=120221 What version of Sonar were you using that you had to "print" a midi file to audio so that it could render out to a stereo wave file? Did you even try it in acid first? RTFM yet? Do you even own a copy of acid 4.0 Mr. "Support sofo now"? Or even Sonar? The beatles recorded their hits on just a "4 track"...NO REWIRE!!! Get over it like I did and make great music using acid[after the bug fix]. "Message for SF - Please make (4.0a) a standard but STABLE maintenance release so we can at least use the bloody program for more than 3 minutes without Dr Watson helping out on the mix. Save Rewire and crap like it for some day in the distant future when this program actually works as advertised"...Agreed. Give me what I payed for. Later.
Subject:RE: i am not particularly interested in ReWire at all Reply by: Maruuk Date:9/16/2002 10:46:01 PM Ah, the hatemongers out in bloom again--the ol' foaming-at-the-mouth brown-shirted attack squad that must crush any voice that dissents with its imperial position of slavish unquestioning support for what most intelligent posters in here readily acknowledge as a buggy mess, however well intended. Sonic Krystalnacht. Rabid dogs, the Emperor has very few clothes, much as you would like to us all to believe otherwise. The fact is that a lot of posters have come out in support of ReWire, especially now that the Sonar-wannabee 4.0 doesn't work. That's great that you morons haven't figured out a use for it--not surprising really. I'm sure your musical product reflects this enlightened view. But the further fact is, after dozens of posters had come in here since last Winter and had sincerely shown a strong interest in adding ReWire, SOFO had the nerve to deny they had seen this obvious support--since it didn't jibe with their wayward direction. So they bring us Sonar-Jr. and it crashes like Robert Downey Jr. in a rubber room. Very slick move, I must say. And you guys suck it up like Beggin' Strips--"It's BACON!" Nope, it's actually artificially-flavored Cakewalk product. Thanks for suggesting I'm witty. Shucks, you guys are too kind, really. At this point, SOFO HAS to go ReWire. It's the only way we can make a softsynth sync, monitor, heck even work with Acid. And that pesky realtime quantize thing. But only fringe guys like, oh, professional composers need that. Keep up the smack, pusbags--it smells like...VICTORY!!!
Subject:RE: i am not particularly interested in ReWire at all Reply by: drwwi Date:9/16/2002 11:47:39 PM What's that? It's still kicking? Beat it again! No wait, it's dead. Hold on, beat again to make sure. There we go. Now it's dead. Wait no... it's not. Beat that dead horse to teach it a lesson! And when we're all done, we'll ignore the previous beatings so we can start all new beatings.
Subject:RE: i am not particularly interested in ReWire at all Reply by: Spirit Date:9/17/2002 6:58:35 AM Instead of insisting SoFo do Rewire, why not go pester the Props to make Reason a VSTi. I think that would be a much more versatile route. The VSTi standard is already far more widespread than Rewire will ever be. It's the Props who are being difficult here, not SoFo.
Subject:RE: i am not particularly interested in ReWire at all Reply by: SHTUNOT Date:9/17/2002 12:46:58 PM LOL! Now there's an idea!
Subject:RE: i am not particularly interested in ReWire at all Reply by: Maruuk Date:9/17/2002 1:19:13 PM Let Reason be Reason! See, those guys have it all together--they're not going to junk up their app with a lot of dysfunctional plug-in crapola that fusses up the GUI and affects overall app stability and robustness. ReWire let's their users simply hook up an app that has already worked out all the bugs for plug-ins so there's no user beta stage. Now THERE'S a concept!

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