What is going on with my levels??

coplinger wrote on 9/14/2002, 11:51 AM
I have found that using Vegas 3, the master levels are always higher than they logically should be. Case in point: I have 2 tracks, neither of which peak above 0 db with no busses, effects, eq, or compression assigned to them. With the master fader at 0 db, the master levels are clipping badly. I have to turn the master fader way down to mix any tracks with faders set near 0 db. This does not seem to be true for effects sends, though. The master levels for effects seem to be equal to the effects return levels when the master fader is set to zero. The result of this is that it's hard to get effects to be very prominant in the mix without cutting all track levels drastically. Am I wrong in assuming that with the master level set to zero, the master levels should be equal to the track levels?

Comments

george_menhorn wrote on 9/14/2002, 1:12 PM
I think it would be true for a single track (try that). For 2 or more tracks, your wave forms are most likely additive and causing you to exceed 0 dB.
PipelineAudio wrote on 9/14/2002, 1:50 PM
Ive seen this with single tracks. Right clicking the track and hitting normalize in properties you can see that there is still headroom yet it goes red on the master
coplinger wrote on 9/14/2002, 4:23 PM
So what do you guys do? Mix with the master fader at -8db or so, or mix with your track faders way down & master at 0?
PipelineAudio wrote on 9/15/2002, 3:15 PM
I just keep turning down the track faders but if theyre going to busses there can be problems
jues wrote on 9/16/2002, 10:19 AM
I just roll off the master fader by about 6db and let it run slightly "hot" (usually to about 3db over) because Vegas doesn't cause physical digital clipping at such levels.

It's a bit odd tho.
TeeCee wrote on 9/19/2002, 6:04 PM
As was stated, use the track levels to get your mix right. That's why each track has a volume setting. This can work for busses as well. Get the mix to the bus right and then adjust the busses to get the mix to the master right. If you really (really) like your mix but it's clipping on the master meter, adjust the master accordingly. As for letting Vegas clip, the rendered file should also clip. Look at it in Sound Forge.

TeeCee
jues wrote on 9/19/2002, 8:10 PM
The thing is that if the levels are running, say 2dB hot, the rendered file will not be clipped in SF. There are definatly no hard digital clips.

Its a mistery to me.
Geoff_Wood wrote on 9/19/2002, 11:26 PM
Not a mystery. Even with 24 bit files you have at least 8 bits of processing headroom (assuming 32 bit internals. Could be greater, ie 48 /64 bit internal processing). Results are presumably dithered down to fit the rendered bitdepth. I have *tried* to get things to clip visibly/audibly, and apart from with input level to my interfaace, having not acheived clipping.