Rec Levels in SF - where should they hit? -Sound Forge - PC

Subject:Rec Levels in SF - where should they hit? Posted by: Yojimbo Date:9/12/2002 6:33:51 PM I know this sounds like a newbie question, and there's a lot of "story" to tell, but I've run into a problem I cannot seem to solve: low record levels. I'd appreciate your input/feedback if you can help me figure this out. When you record spoken voice, where should your peaks be (for narration with some degree of excitement, but nothing yelled)? I used to think you were supposed to hit -2 to -3 dB at the highest. However, it seems I barely reach -12 dB. I'm doing a narration-only piece (later edited with SFX and music added) recording from an EV RE20 mic, a Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro mixer, to a DigtalAudioLabs CardDeluxe sound card. (Optionally, I can route the signal through an RNC compressor and a Speck parametric EQ, but for the moment I have those out of the signal chain as I'd prefer to get the levels right first and not employ their gain stages as a crutch.) The Mackie, the Re20, and the CardDeluxe have been back to the MFRs for re-evaluation, but I just can't seem to get enough gain out of the Mackie somehow. I've set up the Mackie per their instructions: "soloing" the mic input and bringing up the TRIM so that strongly spoken speech hits about +7 dB on the Mackie meters. That means I have to adjust the TRIM pot for that channel to almost 4:00-4:30 (they max at 5:00), but doing so increases the noise floor measurably so I get a lot of background noise and hiss in my recordings. And, of course, if I set it lower, then use a Normalize process afterward, I still end up bringing that unwanted noise up with the spoken material. The CardDeluxe has no gain control. It expects a +4 signal on 1/4 TRS lines (I have a pair of balanced XLR to 1/4 cables from the Mackie to the card, and the Mackie's switchable XLR output is set to +4). I've also verified they're wired right. Mackie looked at the mixer and their techs said everything is perfectly fine. EV checked out the mic and told me it bench checked great (in fact, while it was there they fixed a hum-sensitivity issue it had due to a fault humbucker coil). I've tried both a Gina24 and the CardDeluxe in this system, with their latest drivers, and they both record the same signal (yes, I've reformatted and reinstalled XP as well, to eliminate possible software issues). When I record with the Mackie peaking at its meter's +7db, SForge's recorded signal shows digital peaks at -12. Is this about right in terms of what I should be getting under normal conditions, or is it low? If anyone else is using an RE20 (or even another mic) I'd be curious what trim and gain settings you use... I could use some sample data points from others to get my bearings, and any further Q&A I'll certainly answer. Thank you, James
Subject:RE: Rec Levels in SF - where should they hit? Reply by: 55trucker Date:9/13/2002 6:25:08 PM Hi there Jimbo......in response to your question........that choice is yours......most of the time tho, i choose to max the db level of a wav file at no less then -.5db..this keeps the file from clipping on you....and gets the most RMS power out of the file as possible..the choise is totally yours...the quieter the file......the lower the RMS value will be....the higher the RMS level, the louder the file will be....but do not exceed O...this will invoke clipping.....and possible distortion......
Subject:RE: Rec Levels in SF - where should they hit? Reply by: rraud Date:9/13/2002 7:37:33 PM The set-up you have should work and sound good. Something is obiously not set right in the computer. For record levels, to put it simply: digitize as hot as possible while still giving yourself enough headroom for the unexpected peaks so they do not clip.

I *know* this sounds like a newbie question, and there's a lot of "story" to tell, but I've run into a problem I cannot seem to solve: low record levels. I'd appreciate your input/feedback if you can help me figure this out.

When you record spoken voice, where should your peaks be (for narration with some degree of excitement, but nothing yelled)? I used to think you were supposed to hit -2 to -3 dB at the highest. However, it seems I barely reach -12 dB.

I'm doing a narration-only piece (later edited with SFX and music added) recording from an EV RE20 mic, a Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro mixer, to a DigtalAudioLabs CardDeluxe sound card. (Optionally, I can route the signal through an RNC compressor and a Speck parametric EQ, but for the moment I have those out of the signal chain as I'd prefer to get the levels right first and not employ their gain stages as a crutch.) The Mackie, the Re20, and the CardDeluxe have been back to the MFRs for re-evaluation, but I just can't seem to get enough gain out of the Mackie somehow.

I've set up the Mackie per their instructions: "soloing" the mic input and bringing up the TRIM so that strongly spoken speech hits about +7 dB on the Mackie meters. That means I have to adjust the TRIM pot for that channel to almost 4:00-4:30 (they max at 5:00), but doing so increases the noise floor measurably so I get a lot of background noise and hiss in my recordings. And, of course, if I set it lower, then use a Normalize process afterward, I still end up bringing that unwanted noise up with the spoken material.

The CardDeluxe has no gain control. It expects a +4 signal on 1/4 TRS lines (I have a pair of balanced XLR to 1/4 cables from the Mackie to the card, and the Mackie's switchable XLR output is set to +4). I've also verified they're wired right.

Mackie looked at the mixer and their techs said everything is perfectly fine. EV checked out the mic and told me it bench checked great (in fact, while it was there they fixed a hum-sensitivity issue it had due to a fault humbucker coil). I've tried both a Gina24 and the CardDeluxe in this system, with their latest drivers, and they both record the same signal (yes, I've reformatted and reinstalled XP as well, to eliminate possible software issues).

When I record with the Mackie peaking at its meter's +7db, SForge's recorded signal shows digital peaks at -12. Is this about right in terms of what I should be getting under normal conditions, or is it low?

If anyone else is using an RE20 (or even another mic) I'd be curious what trim and gain settings you use... I could use some sample data points from others to get my bearings, and any further Q&A I'll certainly answer.

Thank you,

James