Subject:Acid VS SuperDuperMusicLuper for kid

Posted by: RiRo

Date:9/5/2002 1:45:07 PM

My 11 year old wants to make music on the computer. She has been taking piano lessions and voice lessons for 6 years, is very computer literate, and quite musically talented. Will Acid be over her head, or is it the best way to go? I have no music savvy whatsoever, but can help her with computer related stuff. She has written some of her own songs, and for an 11 year old, they are pretty good. Also, she has perfect pitch, according to her voice teacher.

Thanks for your help. If this question is too stupid, just ignore it.

RiRo

Subject:RE: Acid VS SuperDuperMusicLuper for kid

Reply by: MyST

Date:9/5/2002 1:55:05 PM

Not a stupid question.

SF recommends SDML for kids 6 to 10. At 11, your daughter will quickly outgrow it.
If you can guide her along in ACID, that would give you two positive results.
1- Excellent parent/daughter time!!
2- She probably won't tire of ACID, and will be encouraged to continue. She might lose interest in SDML's limited capabilities.

¢¢

Subject:RE: Acid VS SuperDuperMusicLuper for kid

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:9/5/2002 2:11:01 PM

Second what MyST has mentioned. ACID Pro is the version to get, IMO. It's a little on the pricey side, yes, but there's lots of power and flexibility there too.

I can tell you myself that since I know a lot of music theory (chord progressions, keys, note values, etc.), you can definitely apply that to how you work with ACID. It's actually an advantage.

ACID, like many of SoFo other products like Sound Forge, is considered by many to be very user friendly in terms of musical creativity; it doesn't get in the way.

Does your daughter want to record her own material as well? Whether it be digital audio or MIDI, there's always someone here that can help out with whatever you need.

HTH,
Iacobus

Subject:RE: Acid VS SuperDuperMusicLuper for kid

Reply by: Maruuk

Date:9/5/2002 2:16:36 PM

Not so fast--SuperDuper has 87% of the key features of Pro and, ahem, it actually WORKS!!!

SuperDuper is a great, inexpensive way to start her off into loopland: it's a terrific, stable, robust, functioning product with no confusing unresolved interface issues, low cpu demand and a quick learning curve. She may never want to leave! In fact, after 4.0, I think I'm going to check it out...

Subject:RE: Acid VS SuperDuperMusicLuper for kid

Reply by: MyST

Date:9/5/2002 2:25:43 PM

Actually, RiRo already has Acid Music, so he/she doesn't have to purchase Pro until his/her daughter is ready to move up.
So, I still recommend Acid. However, if you see she's getting frustrated by the complexity, then SDML might be the answer. Even if she outgrows it quickly, it wasn't too much $$ spent.

M

Subject:RE: Acid VS SuperDuperMusicLuper for kid

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:9/5/2002 2:36:59 PM

Ah, cool. Didn't know that, MyST. Thanks for the info.

I would think that ACID Music has 87% of what ACID Pro has. Still, there's the 13% most of us want (like 24-bit). But you go right ahead, Maruuk. Don't let me stop you. SDML just may be right up your alley. >:)

Feeling vicious,
Iacobus

Subject:RE: Acid VS SuperDuperMusicLuper for kid

Reply by: Maruuk

Date:9/5/2002 4:33:32 PM

Beats beating my head against the 4.0 brick wall all day like you do, MD.

Subject:RE: Acid VS SuperDuperMusicLuper for kid

Reply by: noFony

Date:9/5/2002 11:04:10 PM

Why specifically a looping program for someone with 6 years piano and voice experience? Wouldn't something with more midi/recording capabilities be more applicable? Or maybe throwing something together with loops would be a nice change after practicing scales and such. Just wondering? Anyhow, acid shouldn't be too hard if you take it slow and read the manual. Stuff that's a bit difficult to learn tends to hold your interest longer, and if she's stuck with piano and voice this long then she must have the patience.:)

Subject:RE: Acid VS SuperDuperMusicLuper for kid

Reply by: Maruuk

Date:9/5/2002 11:36:36 PM

sonic--Of course you're right. She writes her own songs, you can bet they aren't techno rave dirges. She needs full audio multitracking and midi support. Looping would be secondary as it's almost impossible to marry loops with melodic songs outside of just rhythm elements. Sonar would be ideal with all the built-in synths, Edirol GM set and full everything--plus notation--that would be huge for her.

Subject:RE: Acid VS SuperDuperMusicLuper for kid

Reply by: RiRo

Date:9/6/2002 2:31:37 AM

Actually, I hadn't really thought about anything other than Sonic Foundry products. I have Vegas, SoundForge, NR etc, but only the freebie version of Acid, and I have never done anything with it. A music program would probably be more in line with what she wants. I don't know anything about them, though. Educate me!

RiRo

Subject:RE: Acid VS SuperDuperMusicLuper for kid

Reply by: RiRo

Date:9/6/2002 2:34:12 AM

I've heard of Sonar, but didn't know it was really a music development program. I thought it was a Vegas Audio type program. Does SF offer anything that is more in line with what we are talking about? What options are available for complete music development, rather than just loop based?

Thanks again,

RiRo

Subject:RE: Acid VS SuperDuperMusicLuper for kid

Reply by: RiRo

Date:9/6/2002 2:36:06 AM

How'd you know that? It's true, I do have Acid music, but only the downloaded version, and an earlier version that came with the "audio anywhere" package. It didn't have any loops though, so was pretty much not used.

RiRo

Subject:RE: Acid VS SuperDuperMusicLuper for kid

Reply by: RiRo

Date:9/6/2002 2:37:56 AM

I didn't realize SuperDuper was so feature rich. for the cost, I will get it, and explore the other options for complete music development. It is on sale for $29, so getting it is at least a way to get her doing music on the computer until I can see what other package would fill the bill.

Thanks for all the help here!

RiRo

Subject:RE: Acid VS SuperDuperMusicLuper for kid

Reply by: MyST

Date:9/6/2002 6:46:26 AM

"How'd you know that?"

Simple really. You asked a question regarding Acid. I wanted to see what experience YOU have with Acid, so I clicked on your user name and looked at all the previous posts you had posted. One of the first posts you mentioned having Acid music. Voila!!
My 2 cents...
Sonic Foundry is one of the better companies you could deal with as far as support goes. If you're like me, a hobbyist who isn't fully educated in audio technologies, that's very important! I have Cakewalk Home Studio 9 also, which I had purchased with my PC. The Cakewalk support was, for me anyways, not as good.
Sure I seem biased, because SoFo has been excellent at returning my e-mails, they're always polite when I call, etc.
So why wouldn't I recommend them. They have solid products (Acid 4 is brand new, give it a couple revisions and it will stabilize).
Right now I'm a hobbyist, but I want to learn more and get the proper tools to, maybe, take the right steps to move up. Obviously, you need natural talent to become Pro, but hey, maybe it's in me and I don't know it yet. :) Kind of like the situation your daughter is in. If you already have Acid, why not start with that before looking at spending $$$ on other programs.
I've become addicted to working with audio through software because of SoFo products.
I have Acid Pro 3.0, Vegas Video 3.0, and yesterday I ordered Sound Forge 6.0, DV and Audio Production book, Sound Forge 6.0 Power book, Sams Learn Acid in 24hrs book, basic mixing tecniques book, and basic effects and processors book. If I don't end up making money through my love of "audio manipulation", I'll at least be much better educated. Also, I'm 3_ years old, I'm allowed to have "toys". :)
So, you and your daughter can use Acid together(?!?), and if she starts saying she would like to be able to do this, that, or the other; then you look at the programs that suits what she is asking for.

HTH

Subject:RE: Acid VS SuperDuperMusicLuper for kid

Reply by: Jacose

Date:9/6/2002 8:39:06 AM

Maruuk is a worthless loser with no time.

ignore him.

SONAR is very nice, but waaayy complex.

go check it out at w@w.cakewalk.com

Maruuk is just being an ass.

ACID Music is just what she needs I think, and then she can graduate to the next level.

Subject:RE: Acid VS SuperDuperMusicLuper for kid

Reply by: Maruuk

Date:9/7/2002 1:45:48 AM

Jacose is just a troubled loner who can't even make Acid Pro 4.0 function at all. A sad case, to be sure.

Cakewalk's Sonar is absolutely perfect for your daughter. You absolutely would be wasting your time in a looping product like the Acid series. Here's why:

Loops are great for rhythms, but can't follow chord changes well. Your daughter's songs couldn't be followed harmonically by Acid loops, it not the environment she needs at all.

She needs a strong midi environment, with a lot of built-in synths that she can play right from her midi controller. Plus she needs a strong multitrack audio recorder to record her acoustic piano and voice, if applicable. Sonar integrates all this into one dynamite package, plus generates a full notational score that can be printed out. And the on-screen score is interactive--the notes your daughter writes into the score will play any midi instrument she wants. Plus Sonar has excellent DXi support--which means any number of inexpensive software samplers and synths can be easily added to the studio.

Acid can't do any of those things, which is exactly why it would be a waste of time for her. Sonar would be perfect--but--for a lot less money, you could get her Cakewalk's Home Studio 2002 which has all of the above features, but with less of a pro upgrade path. But she may not need more than HS2K2--it is an amazing full-featured application for under $100 and the most popular home studio program in the world. PLUS, it just happens to play Acidized loops as well, so you don't even sacrifice anything on the looping side. I think you've found the right stuff here, RiRo!

Subject:RE: Acid VS SuperDuperMusicLuper for kid

Reply by: Jacose

Date:9/7/2002 9:42:14 AM

now maruuk's on the right track...

That music creator software (not SONAR) by cakewwalk would be really good actually.

ACID is a good place to start tho, because its just so EASY and you get results fast.

Cakewaalk would take alot more to learn, but that coulde be good.

Subject:RE: Acid VS SuperDuperMusicLuper for kid

Reply by: Jessariah

Date:9/7/2002 12:04:55 PM

My two cents:

SoFo products have an easier learning curve. SDML is a good app to cut your teeth on, but it has its limitations (like the available loops). Acid music would be plenty for an 11 year old, though...

As for the "complete package," I have to say I -- GULP! -- agree with Maruuk. SONAR has the best overall multitrack/MIDI environment. The learning curve is much steeper, though.

BTW - I'm not talking SoFo down. I own ALL of their pro titles and love them. But when it comes to MIDI support especially, SONAR takes it.

Subject:RE: Acid VS SuperDuperMusicLuper for kid

Reply by: Maruuk

Date:9/7/2002 12:47:29 PM

Yeah, it's important to note that the Acid loop-based series is the easiest, most intuitive, fun, learn-while-you-burn music app going. But. Loop-based music making evolved out of dance music and beat-driven modal-style trance and hip-hop forms. So Acid is fantastic for these styles. But if we make the leap of faith to say your daughter's songs have chord progressions and melodies and the beat is secondary to these things, then you really do want to emphasize strong audio multitrack recording and midi, and integrated synths and notation, none of which are the Acid series' strengths.

Here's an excellent article on Sonar 2.0 from "Mix" magazine. It should help you decide what's right for her. Remember, Cakewalk also sells the much-cheaper "Home Studio 2002" with most of Sonar's features for pocket change.

http://industryclick.com/magazinearticle.asp?magazineid=141&releaseid=10469&magazinearticleid=155078&siteid=15

Subject:RE: Acid VS SuperDuperMusicLuper for kid

Reply by: dlcham

Date:9/7/2002 1:40:41 PM

I have couple of kids around that age, and they quickly outgrew SDML. If she's musically inclined and is taking music lessons, she'll probably have a good time playing around with dynamics and key changes - things you can't do in SDML. If Sonic Foundry gets the MIDI stuff fixed in version 4.0, she'll also have the flexibility of recording and editing Midi in Acid, although in both SDML and Acid, she'd be able to record audio from a keyboard or microphone. One thing to consider with SDML is that you can only use the loops it comes with.

I already had ACID Pro 3.0, but still bought SDML to see if my children would enjoy it. Eventhough they quickly "graduated" to Acid, I'm stil glad I got it. It comes with a real good loop library, and the price of SDML is cheaper than a single loop CD.

Subject:RE: Acid VS SuperDuperMusicLuper for kid

Reply by: noFony

Date:9/7/2002 9:57:10 PM

Don't forget....just about any program is available in some demo form that can be downloaded on the net. So try before you buy! Also, if your into classical composition, can read and write music, and would like to work on any type of orchestral arrangements that can be played back in midi, you might try a demo of Sibelius. A student version is available for about$250 (half the regular price) and it's real handy for a student of music/theory.

Subject:RE: Acid VS SuperDuperMusicLuper for kid

Reply by: Spirit

Date:9/8/2002 5:12:45 AM

Always go for the real thing. My two-year-old doesn't like his toy phone at all - he knows it's just a toy and insists on having the real one.