Subject:ASIO Driver problems!

Posted by: Tripwire

Date:8/23/2002 5:27:25 PM

After having upgraded from 3.0 to 4.0 I am experiencing terrible dropout and crackling using the ASIO driver with my usb audio interface. One of the reasons I upgraded was for the ASIO and VSTi support. I was on the understanding that ASIO was better for latency when using VSTi. If I set the audio back to Microsoft Sound Mapper or Windows Classic Wave Driver I dont get the dropout and crackling. What can I do to solve this? I have tryed changing the buffering settings from the default 9ms (432 samples) either way from the low of, 3ms (144 samples) to, the high of 19ms (864 samples) and everything inbetween! all with little or no improvement.

More info on the type of USB interface I have can be viewed here:

http://www.edirol.it/europe/details.asp?id=12&la=UK&ct=2&gid=6&code=219

I am running windows 98 on a Pentium III, 128MB, 700mhz laptop computer. The track I am using as a test is the default Hybrid track. In the memory usage section it says I am using 11/128MB but it breaks up on the first bar where there are only 2 tracks!!! I have also noticed even with the Microsoft Sound Mapper I get some dropout on previous tracks I composed in 3.0, this is worrying as this didn't occur in 3.0! At the moment I am hesitent to save any of my version 3.0 tracks in the new format as the software seems unreliable at present, more importantly its unusable! If there isn't an immediate solution to the problem I will be asking for a refund. The way I see it, the product dosn't do what it says on the box so to speak! My USB interface does support ASIO correctly with other similar applications such as cubase.

Subject:RE: ASIO Driver problems!

Reply by: Rockitglider

Date:8/23/2002 7:04:15 PM

Hello,

When you change you buffer settings in the Acid Options dialog, make sure you click refresh after each time you change a buffer setting, or else you wont see any difference, it's in between Configure and About in the Advanced section.
I got my ASIO to work at 512 samples on my Delta Dio card and this drivr is suposed to have problems in Acid 4.0, but it's working good for me. Also check the readme file for Acid and see if your card is listed as having a problem or not. One other thing is make sure you connect your USB card into a USB port that's directly on your computer not on a USB expander, and make sure your USB is not sharing IRQ's with anything else. To check IRQ sharring in Windows 98, in Device Manager double click the very top item, it should be Computer, this will bring up an IRQ sharing assignment list, it's ok to share with PCI Steering holder but nothing else.

Let me know what happens.

See ya, Rockitglider

Subject:RE: ASIO Driver problems!

Reply by: Tripwire

Date:8/24/2002 2:54:35 AM

Hello,

firstly thanks for trying to help me out :)
The changes I make to the buffer size have to be done from the multimedia settings in my control panel as there is no option to change it from within Acid. I am closing down Acid each time I make a change. I then go back into the audio properties in Acid to check the changes have occurred, which they do.

The usb interface was plugged into my usb expander so I did as you suggested and plugged it directly into my computer. Unfornately this made no difference.

The only thing usb related in the irg settings is:
(Intel 82371AB/EB PCI to USB Universal Host Controller) which is on IRQ 09, also on IRQ 09 are (ACPI IRQ Holder for PCI IRQ Steering) and (SCI IRQ used by ACPI bus)

Is this correct?

Thanks

Subject:RE: ASIO Driver problems!

Reply by: Rockitglider

Date:8/24/2002 3:17:03 AM

Hello again,

Yeah that looks good so far, the other thing is did you check the Readme file?, and in Acid on the Sync page in Options, If your not using any external MIDI controllers or a MIDI router and internal software syncing to Acid, make sure you have nothing selected on this page, because this will cause this problem on some machines as well.

See ya, Rockitglider

Subject:RE: ASIO Driver problems!

Reply by: Tripwire

Date:8/24/2002 4:25:42 AM

yeah I checked the readme and theres nothing related to my soundcard.

The sync options are all set to NONE.

I'm hoping SOFO will get back to me on this one. I am at a loss, I can only assume its an ASIO problem within ACID which judging by some of the previous posts on this forum is highly likely!

I'm gonna stick with the program using the Microsoft Sound Mapper until SOFO resolves the issue. I am very happy with the effects automation which makes up for the problems with ASIO and VSTi support. This feature alone for me was worth the upgrade and I am also noticing a significant improvement in sound quality. Hopefully SOFO will put the icing on the cake soon and I will be a content ACID user again :)

Subject:RE: ASIO Driver problems!

Reply by: Rockitglider

Date:8/24/2002 6:32:13 AM

Hello again,

Well that's about all I can think of right now to try. Do you mean Classic Wave Driver or Microsoft Sound Mapper, because the Classic Wave driver is a better choice than MSM. I'm very happy with the program as well, I really like the Surround Sound feature because I have my computer connected to a full Surround system, but all the other features are good too. But anyway, good luck and hope it get resolved soon.

See ya, Rockitglider

Subject:RE: ASIO Driver problems!

Reply by: Tripwire

Date:8/24/2002 6:37:57 AM

Thanks for your help Rockitglider. I have changed to Classic Wave Driver :)
I'm now eagerly awaiting a response from SOFO!

Cheers

Subject:RE: ASIO Driver problems!

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:8/24/2002 1:11:30 PM

Hi Steve,

I'm in a similar boat. I notice problems using ASIO with my M-Audio USB Duo even with the latency jacked all the way (40 ms at 24-bit/96 kHz). WDM drivers work just fine though.

The only time it starts to crackle and pop is when the project gets really busy, around 20 tracks or so. Other than that, it's fine. Thinking it may just be a driver issue? ACID 4.0 is new and the first iteration of ACID with ASIO. I've contacted M-Audio on the issue and will let you know otherwise.

Iacobus

Subject:RE: ASIO Driver problems!

Reply by: Rockitglider

Date:8/24/2002 1:30:41 PM

I think maybe we should all contact M-Audio about this so they know how many people are waiting for this update, But please be polite when mailing them.

See ya, Rockitglider

Subject:RE: ASIO Driver problems!

Reply by: Tripwire

Date:8/24/2002 3:54:50 PM

I realised today I had a demo version of Fruityloops 3.5 installed on my machine so I tryed the asio driver in that and there was also drop out. After reading the faq on the fruityloops website it recommended changing the buffer settings as Acid does which I promptly did and it did make a noticible difference which is what you would expect. With the maximum buffer size there was little or no dropout only when you went to the file menus it would cause a slight interference. I then proceeded to make the other recommendation in the fruity loops faq which reads as follows:

Quote: Windows 9x is more or less animated, & some of those animations are very bad for the timing in audio applications. To fix that problem, go to the display settings (in Windows 98), select the "Effects" tab & uncheck the "Animate windows, menus and lists" box. There are other ways to optimize Windows 9x for audio applications, you can learn more about this on the Internet.

After doing this there was absolutely no dropout or interference using the asio driver in Fruityloops and everything ran smoothly. Obviously the next thing to try was Acid 4.0 I was hoping I had cracked it, but no, still the same problem, a bit better than before but still unusable! I am now considering how I can optimize my system. The problem with windows 98 is I cannot successfully defrag the hard drive which I'm sure would help a little. Maybe its time to get XP! Does anyone no if partitioning the drive would help and if so how would I go about it safely?
I still feel the problems with ACID not my usb interface, but maybe this post will be of use to other windows 98 users?

Cheers

Subject:RE: ASIO Driver problems!

Reply by: chaircrusher

Date:8/25/2002 12:31:02 AM

A couple of things:

128 Mbytes RAM? I show Acid itself starting about 30 megabytes, and jumping to 40 megabytes with one instance of Model E. In any non trivial Acid project, you're likely going to run out of real memory but quick in 128meg.

If you're going to upgrade to XP -- a good idea by the way, all Sonic Foundry programs do better on XP because of improvements in the threading model -- you need at least 256 meg, and 512 is better. If you do decide to go XP, make sure you have all the latest XP drivers for your particular laptop.

You didn't say which laptop you have, but their USB performance varies, depending on what sort of USB controller they use. Even if your USB audio interface is fine in and of itself, you could be shot down by the USB controller.

Subject:RE: ASIO Driver problems!

Reply by: midihead

Date:8/25/2002 3:27:05 AM

I myself have a M-Audio Delta 66 and I don't think that the ASIO drivers have EVER worked in Acid without clicking and stuttering. The Windows Classic Wave drivers seem to be a much better choice when working with this particular card. I'll be contacting M-Audio as well to see what they have to say on the matter. I've had their sound cards for some time and I know that they've had a great deal of struggle even getting the ASIO drivers to work with Cubase years ago.

Subject:RE: ASIO Driver problems!

Reply by: CDM

Date:8/25/2002 7:46:00 AM

The ASIO problem with the DELTA cards IS a Delta problem and not a SOFO problem. Please email them to fix this in an update.

It was mentioned by SOFO in the README.

Subject:RE: ASIO Driver problems!

Reply by: Tripwire

Date:8/25/2002 11:16:33 AM

Kent,

I can run Fruityloops with many tracks and vsti's running without a hickup, like I said earlier the buffer size change cured the problem in fruity loops, which it isn't doing in Acid, which makes me think it is a problem within acid. When I boot acid, a new document uses 9mb of ram and the demo track only increases this to 11mb. I only planned to use the midi and vsti features as an add on. I mainly use Acid for audio which is what its good at, but if it ain't upto the job of midi yet I'm gonna leave it, and carry on working in audio only, until sofo fix it up! I've no doubt though the extra memory would improve things alot if I were really taxing the program, but I don't consider the demo Hybrid track to be really taxing ie: a few audio tracks and three midi tracks, my setup should easily cope with that!!
How could the usb host controller effect only acid and not fruityloops?
From my system info the usb controller info is:
Intel 82371AB/EB PCI to USB Univesal Host Controller
I would just like to point out I am using an Edirol usb interface not an M-audio one which others here have mentioned, although I figure they are similar. This interface has not long been released here in the UK, it has been tested with cubase, sonar and was designed with laptop music production in mind. The other annoyance which I forgot to mention in my first post, is the lack of the 96Khz 24bit playback/rec feature on the interface, which also requires asio to work correctly! I'm gonna fire an email off to Edirol and see what they have to say.