Subject:ATTN SOFO: MIDI interface must-haves...

Posted by: WT

Date:8/20/2002 8:40:02 PM

I've been waiting years for Sonic Foundry to tackle MIDI, and I'm delighted that we're starting to see something in the works!

The MIDI interface is very promising so far, but there are some crucial features that are conspicuously missing. Here is a short-list that myself and a couple other musicians who sequence professionally would find extremely useful.

1. The way that Acid 4.0 displays sequences as a single mini-piano-roll bar in the main timeline (track view) window is inadequate. Currently, the only way to display tracks as their own piano-roll in the track view is to make multiple sequences. (eg. Piano is its own sequence, Strings in its own... etc.)

Far more useful would be to display each track as its own mini-piano-roll bar in the main timeline. Perhaps SOFO could add the functionality to expland the single sequence bar into its component tracks in the track view mode.

This is essential for work that eventually needs to be orchestrated.

2. There does not appear to be any way to export the MIDI sequences as .MID files. This makes it very difficult for cross-application cooperation with other musicians who use other sequencers.

3. Groove quantize. The ability to create or import groove templates would be very helpful. This is very useful for making one's own drum loops, not to mention to produce a professional-sounding MIDI sequence.

4. There are currently very few MIDI-related keyboard shortcuts (or hotkeys). Things like quantize should definitely be hotkeyed.

5. There is currently little to no modifier key functionality in the piano roll. For example, why not hold down <ALT> while rubber-banding to change zoom to fit the selected area? (And alt double click to return to previous zoom!) Why don't we hold down <SHIFT> while dragging to scrub the notes? That sort of thing would really improve workflow.

6. There doesn't appear to be any way to scrub in the piano roll. Ever since (and possibly before) Opcode Vision, this has been a very important feature to have.

7. The velocity box is fantastic. We all were thrilled to see it. It'd be even more fantastic if we could draw other parameters in (volume, pan, mod, resonance, etc.).

8. Last, but certainly not least - there needs to be a far more intuitive way to select patches and banks instead of by keying them into the event list. This is far too primitive.

Perhaps much of this functionality could be added by third-party developers for OPT, but I'd love it if SOFO could add these little things themselves. We use Vegas religiously, and think SOFO's work is top-notch. The SOFO interface, (though often imitated) is unparalleled by any software.

With these functionality tweaks, we'll be happy to finally drop Logic (and Vision!)and finally do all our work in a Sonic Foundry environment. (Well, almost - until SOFO does a notation program like Finale!)

We're all hoping that you'll find these suggestions constructive! (This has also been sent to the product support form)

Thanks,
Warren

Subject:RE: ATTN SOFO: MIDI interface must-haves...

Reply by: pwppch

Date:8/20/2002 10:15:44 PM

>>1. The way that Acid 4.0 displays sequences as a single mini-piano-roll bar in the main timeline (track view) window is inadequate. Currently, the only way to display tracks as their own piano-roll in the track view is to make multiple sequences. (eg. Piano is its own sequence, Strings in its own... etc.)
<<

The problem with this is that you can't edit the data in one ACID event with out effecting any other ACID event. Remember, you are painting MIDI from a file in ACID, just like the audio.

When you are editing MIDI in ACID, you are editing the file that you paint with. Each ACID track is a sequencer, whether it is a four bar drum loop or a full MIDI sequence that imported into ACID.

The MIDI paradigm in ACID is exactly the same as it is for audio. The only reason we included MIDI editing directly in ACID is that there is no really good and simple stand alone MIDI editor. If there was a "MIDI Forge" type app, we probably wouldn't have implemented MIDI editing directly in ACID, just like we don't support editing audio directly in ACID.

>>Far more useful would be to display each track as its own mini-piano-roll bar in the main timeline. Perhaps SOFO could add the functionality to expland the single sequence bar into its component tracks in the track view mode.
<<
Again, since ACIDs paradigm is "painting with a file" this wouldn't be very workable.

>>2. There does not appear to be any way to export the MIDI sequences as .MID files. This makes it very difficult for cross-application cooperation with other musicians who use other sequencers.
<<<
From the MIDI track propeties page, hold Shift when you click the Save button. This performs a Save As and will let you save to a new MIDI file.

>>3. Groove quantize. The ability to create or import groove templates would be very helpful. This is very useful for making one's own drum loops, not to mention to produce a professional-sounding MIDI sequence.
<<<
Something we will look at, or hopefully a OPT plugin will solve.

>>4. There are currently very few MIDI-related keyboard shortcuts (or hotkeys). Things like quantize should definitely be hotkeyed.
<<<
We expected that some things will have to gain keyboard short cuts in the OPT editors. Quantize using last parameters on selection would be a good one.

>>5. There is currently little to no modifier key functionality in the piano roll. For example, why not hold down <ALT> while rubber-banding to change zoom to fit the selected area? (And alt double click to return to previous zoom!) Why don't we hold down <SHIFT> while dragging to scrub the notes? That sort of thing would really improve workflow.
6. There doesn't appear to be any way to scrub in the piano roll. Ever since (and possibly before) Opcode Vision, this has been a very important feature to have.
<<<
Not sure what you mean by "scrub" notes. When you are in the Piano Roll or List Editors and you have Real-Time MIDI Montior enable, you can turn on the editors live playback mode (the little speaker icon). This will make all edits and the keyboard in the Piano Roll play out the ACID tracks current MIDI port or softsynth assignment.

>>7. The velocity box is fantastic. We all were thrilled to see it. It'd be even more fantastic if we could draw other parameters in like the velocity.
<<
Abosulutely something that will advance the Piano Roll.
>>8. Last, but certainly not least - there needs to be a far more intuitive way to select patches and banks instead of by keying them into the event list. This is far too primitive.
<<
Agreed. How and where do you want to set the patch? Remember, you are editing a MIDi file that you paint with. The list editor is the primitative way. We had considered a number of ways. One on the General Page and some mechanism in the Piano Roll using markers on the time line. I am would like to hear some ideas on this one.

Thanks
Peter

Subject:RE: ATTN SOFO: MIDI interface must-haves...

Reply by: Spirit

Date:8/20/2002 10:41:09 PM

Why not select directly from the VSTi itself ? Is this so obvious it must be impossible ?

Also, it would be good to be able to access the MIDI track by double-clicking it in the main timeline. MIDI is such a different beast to audio that a change is paradigm is irrelevant here methinks. Alternatively can you riht-click on the MIDI timeline track and select "edit", just as you would for an audio track select "edit in soundforge" ? Maybe this is already possible ?

Also, something I'd like to know, is the VSTi setting remebered when the song is saved ? In other words, if you modify a patch on the VSTi, but don;t save it as a preset - just save the Acid project - is that setting remebered the next time the project is opened ?

Subject:RE: ATTN SOFO: MIDI interface must-haves...

Reply by: WT

Date:8/21/2002 1:24:59 AM

>>1. The way that Acid 4.0 displays sequences as a single mini-piano-roll bar in the main timeline (track view) window is inadequate. Currently, the only way to display tracks as their own piano-roll in the track view is to make multiple sequences. (eg. Piano is its own sequence, Strings in its own... etc.)
<<

>...Each ACID track is a sequencer, whether it is a four bar drum loop or a full MIDI sequence that imported into ACID.

>The MIDI paradigm in ACID is exactly the same as it is for audio. The only reason we included MIDI editing directly in ACID is that there is no really good and simple stand alone MIDI editor. If there was a "MIDI Forge" type app, we probably wouldn't have implemented MIDI editing directly in ACID, just like we don't support editing audio directly in ACID.

Fair enough... I understand why SOFO wants to limit the scope of the Acid product line. Since there is no "MIDI Forge" application, and I suspect that there is none planned, I don't see how it would hurt to make the MIDI editing features just a little more useable.

For example, may I suggest that one could click a little icon not unlike the "restore" button, that would expand the sequence into child bars underneath. One could "minimize" it if he wants, and it would return to the entire-sequence view.

Example:
So this is how it looks, just like now, only with the new "expand" button (the *s are the piano rolls):

Fullsequence (+)
********************************

This is how it looks after I click the "expand" button:

Fullsequence (-)
Piano
********************************
Pad
********************************
Drums
********************************

So if you click the (-), it returns to the combined sequence view! Sort of like the directory tree in Windows Explorer.

This way, you could keep the painting paradigm, especially when in the combined sequence view. SOFO obviously has everything in place to make this possible - it just seems to be a matter of deciding whether this clashes with the Acid workflow paradigm. I am positive that this will be extremely useful to many professional end-users.

On this topic, can Vegas users expect to receive this type of MIDI functionality in a forthcoming release? I understand that you don't want to disclose too much information on unreleased products, but this is fairly important for us to plan what product lines to support (Acid, Vegas, etc.).


>>2. There does not appear to be any way to export the MIDI sequences as .MID files. This makes it very difficult for cross-application cooperation with other musicians who use other sequencers.
<<<
> From the MIDI track propeties page, hold Shift when you click the Save button. This performs a Save As and will let you save to a new MIDI file.

Ok... I'll take your word for it - I'm currently running the demo version, so saving is disabled. I'm not quite ready to pull out the credit card yet. ; )

>>3. Groove quantize. The ability to create or import groove templates would be very helpful. This is very useful for making one's own drum loops, not to mention to produce a professional-sounding MIDI sequence.
<<<
> Something we will look at, or hopefully a OPT plugin will solve.

I hope you'll look at it yourselves. SOFO just happens to do things The Right Way. I'd prefer to use a SOFO solution over a 3rd party plugin that may or may not come. As it is, I've only been able to find one OPT plugin in existence on the web, and it is a MOTIF editor done by Yamaha. Could you direct me to where I could find others?

>>4. There are currently very few MIDI-related keyboard shortcuts (or hotkeys). Things like quantize should definitely be hotkeyed.
<<<
>We expected that some things will have to gain keyboard short cuts in the OPT editors. Quantize using last parameters on selection would be a good one.

Yes it would. Can we expect Acid or later versions of Vegas to have user-assignable hotkeys for practically every function? Shouldn't be difficult to implement, and sure would be nice! ; )

>>5. There is currently little to no modifier key functionality in the piano roll. For example, why not hold down <ALT> while rubber-banding to change zoom to fit the selected area? (And alt double click to return to previous zoom!) Why don't we hold down <SHIFT> while dragging to scrub the notes? That sort of thing would really improve workflow.
6. There doesn't appear to be any way to scrub in the piano roll. Ever since (and possibly before) Opcode Vision, this has been a very important feature to have.
<<< Not sure what you mean by "scrub" notes. When you are in the Piano Roll or List Editors and you have Real-Time MIDI Montior enable, you can turn on the editors live playback mode (the little speaker icon). This will make all edits and the keyboard in the Piano Roll play out the ACID tracks current MIDI port or softsynth assignment.

Re: Scrubbing

Currently, monitor only works when clicking individual notes or when moving them around.

By scrubbing, I mean the ability to grab the song position line (the one that scrolls while playing a file) and rub it back and forth over the piano roll. All the notes in the track would be played back as the bar hits them. So if I had chord I wanted to check, I could drag the bar over the notes on the piano roll, and hear the notes play out. Also good would be to monitor the notes as they are hit and selected by the rubber band selector.


>>7. The velocity box is fantastic. We all were thrilled to see it. It'd be even more fantastic if we could draw other parameters in like the velocity.
<<
> Abosulutely something that will advance the Piano Roll.

Thanks! Eagerly awaiting it.

>>8. Last, but certainly not least - there needs to be a far more intuitive way to select patches and banks instead of by keying them into the event list. This is far too primitive.
<<
>Agreed. How and where do you want to set the patch? Remember, you are editing a MIDi file that you paint with. The list editor is the primitative way. We had considered a number of ways. One on the General Page and some mechanism in the Piano Roll using markers on the time line. I am would like to hear some ideas on this one.

I like both!
The way I see it:
General Page: Patch name right next to the Track name. Beautiful. This selects the first patch of the current track in the sequence.

Piano Roll marker:
- Above the piano roll next to the track name is the current patch. (track name is Piano solo)

|Piano solo |Bnk 1|01 St. Grand|

Just click where on the piano roll you want the patch change, and the position bar will hop to it. Click the patch box sitting next to the track name, and select the next patch.

|Piano solo |Bnk 4|06 Rhodes |

Presto, a marker pops up, and the patch box reflects the new instrument (Rhodes). Clicking the position bar before the patch change, the patch box reflects the old instrument (St. Grand).

I'm very excited with SOFO's adoption of MIDI and VST. My colleagues and me have always been the biggest fans of your user interface design. We all dreamed that Sonic Foundry would one day bring its proven excellent user interface to MIDI. Looks like that day is near!

Woops - I forgot a couple... here are some new ones:

9. Can we select a bunch of notes (rubber banding) and change all of the selected note parameters together? For example, alter the lengths of all the selected notes by moving the edge of just one of the selected notes.

(Every sequencer I know has this functionality, and I don't reckon it's a tricky one to add.)


10. Right-click-drag functionality. Lots of opportunity for workflow efficiency here.

Currently, a single right-click in Piano Roll only brings up selection options. this is nice, but selecting all of the same note in the piano roll could (or rather should) also be done by simply clicking the note on the vertical keyboard.

- Right-click-drag on the piano roll could automatically switch to the rubber-band select tool. Even if you're using the draw tool, you could right-click and select a bunch of notes then move/edit them with left-click without toggling tools.

- Holding right-click on the note and dragging up and down could increase and decrease velocity of the note. (monitor would play the note repeatedly at the various velocities as they change)


>Thanks
Peter

Thank YOU for reading my list and for the prompt and informative reply!
Warren

Subject:RE: ATTN SOFO: MIDI interface must-haves...

Reply by: ATP

Date:8/21/2002 2:47:08 AM

some great suggestions there, Warren. i hope SoFo will keep them in mind when updating ACID.

Subject:RE: ATTN SOFO: MIDI interface must-haves...

Reply by: pwppch

Date:8/21/2002 8:00:09 AM

>Why not select directly from the VSTi itself ? Is this so obvious it must be impossible ?
<
Select what from the VSTi? The VSTi is a destination of data, not the data itself. It is no different than an external synth to ACID.

>>Also, it would be good to be able to access the MIDI track by double-clicking it in the main timeline. MIDI is such a different beast to audio that a change is paradigm is irrelevant here methinks. Alternatively can you riht-click on the MIDI timeline track and select "edit", just as you would for an audio track select "edit in soundforge" ? Maybe this is already possible ?
<<
I guess it would be possible, but again you would be editing the "file" and not any particular ACID event on the ACID timeline. (You know you can double click the Icon on the ACID track to bring up the Track Properties editing tabs.)

>>Also, something I'd like to know, is the VSTi setting remebered when the song is saved ? In other words, if you modify a patch on the VSTi, but don;t save it as a preset - just save the Acid project - is that setting remebered the next time the project is opened ?
<<
Yes, the setttings of the VSTi - banks/presets - are saved with the ACID project.

Peter

Subject:RE: ATTN SOFO: MIDI interface must-haves...

Reply by: pwppch

Date:8/21/2002 8:10:44 AM

With out itemizing...

Your approach to the track expansion has been discussed. The advantage of using OPT for editing is that it can be a simple - the ACID General page - or as complex as the plugin wants to make it.

The current ACID model is a very simple "edit the file". Insert/delete/Cut/Copy/Paste. This is the starting point. The OPT model can expose a full sequeuncer of editing tools to manipulate MIDI data. Imagine the ACID MIDI General tab being like a main track view in a traditional sequencer. This is where we can head. There really are very few limitations.
ACID is the first major host to adopt OPT editors. We have worked very closely with Yamaha to assure that we follow the standard as close as possible and to promote the standard in any way we can.

I am very excited about the possilbities to get a "MIDI Forge" into ACID through our efforts and third party efforts and work with OPT.


Concerning your scrubbing and right click/selection ideas, I will make sure that the "piano roll" guy here sees your post. They are very good ideas.

Peter

Subject:RE: ATTN SOFO: MIDI interface must-haves...

Reply by: spesimen

Date:8/21/2002 9:41:44 AM

Another quick piano roll request:

currently the position bar doesn't seem to update in the piano roll window while the app is playing. If you stop acid, and then press play in the piano roll, the bar will then update but the rest of the song doesn't play, like it's soloing that midi part or something. is there a way to just make the bar update all the time?

also, having the quantize setting stay "sticky" might be nice - currently it always resets to 1/4 note whenever i use it, although i pretty much always use 1/16.

thanks

Subject:RE: ATTN SOFO: MIDI interface must-haves...

Reply by: Mus

Date:8/21/2002 12:58:08 PM

Spesimen,

> currently the position bar doesn't seem to update in the piano roll window while > the app is playing. If you stop acid, and then press play in the piano roll, the > bar will then update but the rest of the song doesn't play, like it's soloing that > midi part or something. is there a way to just make the bar update all the time?

I would echo your point to SoFo exactly

M

Subject:RE: ATTN SOFO: MIDI interface must-haves...

Reply by: Mus

Date:8/21/2002 1:08:56 PM

WT wrote:
>>8. Last, but certainly not least - there needs to be a far more intuitive way to select patches and banks instead of by keying them into the event list. This is far too primitive.

SonicPCH replied
> Agreed. How and where do you want to set the patch?

Ideally as a track property which would send when loading the project. Well, sounds like LogiCubaSonar I guess.

If this is possible, or alternatively if it has to be in the OPT part, how will you access patch names for different Synths?

Does/will SoFo support SysEx?

Thanks

M

Subject:RE: ATTN SOFO: MIDI interface must-haves...

Reply by: pwppch

Date:8/21/2002 1:58:59 PM

No. The piano roll when playing back is "previewing" the MIDI file. There is no playback position association between the main track view and the piano roll.

Why? Because ACID "paints" the MIDI file as ACID events on an ACID track. If you have a 4 bar MIDI loop you can paint all or portions of this loop on the ACID track. This would cause any attempts at following the playback cursor in the piano roll to jump around all over the place.

You have to consider the piano roll just like an Audio loops Propteries page. You are looking/working with the underlying file, not the "painting" you have done on the main track view.

The stickiness of the quantize dialog sounds like a bug. It should remember your last settings.

Peter

Subject:RE: ATTN SOFO: MIDI interface must-haves...

Reply by: pwppch

Date:8/21/2002 2:05:40 PM

>>Ideally as a track property which would send when loading the project. Well, sounds like LogiCubaSonar I guess.
<<

Can't be done cleanly at the ACID track level. Again, ACID paints what ever MIDI file is associated to the ACID track. If you have a sequence that has 10 MIDI channels in use spread across 16 MIDI tracks with in the file, then which channel do you change at the track level.

>>If this is possible, or alternatively if it has to be in the OPT part, how will you access patch names for different Synths?
<<
Not sure I follow you with "access patch names". There is no patch to name association in ACID. All patches are set by using program/bank numerical entry. Currently the only means to do this is in the list editor.

We are looking at a means to expose "synth voice maps" so that you can choose from a list of voices for a given synth. OPT doesn't define this currently and VSTi doesn't expose it currently either. It would involve some mechanism of ini files to hold voice names to patch numbers.

>>Does/will SoFo support SysEx?
No sysex editing. We play what ever is in the file or is recorded.

Peter

Subject:RE: ATTN SOFO: MIDI interface must-haves...

Reply by: WT

Date:8/21/2002 2:44:37 PM

>I am very excited about the possilbities to get a "MIDI Forge" into ACID through our efforts and third party efforts and work with OPT.

As am I! The flexibility of the OPT system sounds extremely promising.

So what you are saying is, to maintain Acid's painting paradigm, SoFo would rather implement this track view I described in the OPT plugin, (as you say, in the general page, for example), than within the Acid application itself in the form of an expandable sequence bar.

Can I expect OPT support to show up in Vegas soon? The combination of the two will be nigh invincible.

If MIDI is implemented in Vegas, Vegas doesn't need to adhere to the Acid painting by file paradigm. Could an exploded track view be available in the Vegas track view? This could be extremely helpful for lining up audio and MIDI events. For example, if I wanted to layer an audio recording of a hit simultaneously with a MIDI note.

- A side-advantage of this would be yet another reason/feature for SoFo to market Vegas as the flagship product over Acid. ; )

Thank you for passing on the Piano Roll suggestions. I'm looking forward to seeing some great workflow in the OPT plugin.

Thanks!
WT

Subject:RE: ATTN SOFO: MIDI interface must-haves...

Reply by: pwppch

Date:8/21/2002 3:08:55 PM

>>So what you are saying is, to maintain Acid's painting paradigm, SoFo would rather implement this track view I described in the OPT plugin, (as you say, in the general page, for example), than within the Acid application itself in the form of an expandable sequence bar.
<<
Correct. One thing that we will be looking at is making the ACID track events more "visual" as you zoom in. In a sense looking more like a piano roll, though not providing the editing, which will be left to the domain of the OPT plugins.

>>Can I expect OPT support to show up in Vegas soon? The combination of the two will be nigh invincible.
<<
We generally don't comment on features in unannounced products. Yes, we are working on a new rev of Vegas. That is about all I can say at this time.


>>If MIDI is implemented in Vegas, Vegas doesn't need to adhere to the Acid painting by file paradigm. Could an exploded track view be available in the Vegas track view? This could be extremely helpful for lining up audio and MIDI events. For example, if I wanted to layer an audio recording of a hit simultaneously with a MIDI note.
<<
IF Vegas would have MIDI, this is correct, it would not have the same limitations of one file to track as ACID does.

Peter

Subject:RE: ATTN SOFO: MIDI interface must-haves...

Reply by: WT

Date:8/21/2002 3:28:42 PM

Delightful.

I understand that you folks prefer to keep your cards close to your chest for many reasons.

You guys rock. Here's hoping that this "hypothetical" new Vegas become reality. ; )

Thanks
Warren

Subject:RE: ATTN SOFO: MIDI interface must-haves...

Reply by: Mus

Date:8/21/2002 3:35:08 PM

SonicPCH wrote:
> Not sure I follow you with "access patch names".

What you wrote next was what I meant :-)

> We are looking at a means to expose "synth voice maps"

> No sysex editing

That's OK as long as it can record/play.

Regards

M

Subject:RE: ATTN SOFO: MIDI interface must-haves...

Reply by: spesimen

Date:8/21/2002 4:24:23 PM

>>If you have a 4 bar MIDI loop you can paint all or portions of this
>>loop on the ACID track. This would cause any attempts at following
>>the playback cursor in the piano roll to jump around all over the place.

Hmm, i understand that logic, makes sense to me.. although, i think even having the bar jump around could potentially still be more useful than not moving at all! or maybe just highlighting any event as it gets played or something...

Granted, I'm new to using midi in acid, but most of the time my midi parts aren't painted up that much and just consist of basic repeats of the sequence. Right now it's kind of tricky if you need to edit one note into the right spot without that visual association of which note is the one you're hearing.

I haven't recieved the sdk yet (sent the fax a few days ago), but is there a way for an OPT plugin to get position information from acid? or does the underlying infrastructure make this problem a tough one to solve since the editor is more like a file editor than a fully integrated part of the app? i'm designing a drum-grid plug with other limitations in mind with the idea that a track would consist of fixed-length sequence blocks which are directly edited by the plugin.. non-conforming length sequences would just get truncated into 1 or 2 bar segements..but having the ability to make the current row highlight or whatever would be pretty useful in that case too..

thanks for the info..!

Subject:RE: ATTN SOFO: MIDI interface must-haves...

Reply by: oddboy

Date:8/21/2002 4:40:13 PM

So when are the opt plugs coming? Does Yamaha have any out yet?

I tried the Motif and loved it but I was on a Mac and the provided Yamaha software did not work well.

It was way cool having the Yamaha Motif editor on the computer screen. Anyone know if Yamaha will have this kind of thing ported to Acid via OPT

Subject:RE: ATTN SOFO: MIDI interface must-haves...

Reply by: pwppch

Date:8/21/2002 5:03:53 PM

>>I haven't recieved the sdk yet (sent the fax a few days ago), but is there a way for an OPT plugin to get position information from acid? or does the underlying infrastructure make this problem a tough one to solve since the editor is more like a file editor than a fully integrated part of the app? i'm designing a drum-grid plug with other limitations in mind with the idea that a track would consist of fixed-length sequence blocks which are directly edited by the plugin.. non-conforming length sequences would just get truncated into 1 or 2 bar segements..but having the ability to make the current row highlight or whatever would be pretty useful in that case too..
<<
No, you can't get the app position during playback. We expose the OPT "transport and position" information as part of our preview engine. This has everything to do with the ACID model of track == file. The mapping of ACID's MIDI tracks to the editing model of OPT just didn't go beyond this track == file model.

Once you get the OPT SDK, feel free to email me on any OPT related development issues you may have.

Peter

Subject:RE: ATTN SOFO: MIDI interface must-haves...

Reply by: pwppch

Date:8/21/2002 5:06:07 PM

Yamaha has released the OPT plugin for the Motif. It works in ACID just fine. It doesn't do much with the ACID data stream, but it works.

Currently there are a number of vendors "investigating" and/or "developing" OPT plugins. Nothing commercial is yet available that I know of.

Peter