Subject:I've seen the future and it's name is REWIRE.

Posted by: waynegee

Date:8/13/2002 12:02:40 PM

Yep, I've seen the light. After playing around with Sonar, Ableton Live and Reason, I totally get the Rewire thing and how it could make all the difference in one's work flow. I mean, I been working in different apps for so long, I guess I don't know any better but the things you can do with Rewire are pretty effing cool, man. On my laptop I can program in Sonar(with a REAL sequencing environment) and use Reason's synths and then render a wave file with ALL of the sounds(Sonar and Reason)...very cool...lovin' it. I get it.
So anyone I might've given a hard time to...my most humble apolgies. It's not a dealbreaker for me but I can see why the users are up in arms.

Also, Jacose was talking about different file types on one track; in Sonar, you place loops, one-shots and full performances on ONE track...what a space saver and a help in mixing.

Sofo, you were the leaders, the ones who started it all but you gotta get with it. Competetion is fierce.

Subject:RE: I've seen the future and it's name is REWIRE.

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:8/13/2002 10:15:40 PM

I don't mean to start any flame war here, but since ACID 4.0 will support VSTi, there are just as capable synths/samplers/etc. out there like Reaktor. Even Fruityloops will be usable in ACID. (Fruityloops FULL and above only.)

Iacobus

Subject:RE: I've seen the future and it's name is REWIRE.

Reply by: SHTUNOT

Date:8/13/2002 10:55:26 PM

I copied webpuppy's post on rewire and posted it on the creativecow.net forums. DSE answered with the following response.[I'll paste BOTH posts too keep things in perspective]

This post pretty much sums up why I would like rewire in BOTH Vegas Video 4+Acid Pro4(5?):

Subject: RE: ReWire and ACID 4.0
Posted by: webpuppy
Date: 8/4/2002 2:23:03 AM

I can can see myself using rewire in the following context:

I've been recording a rock band, using Vegas, multitracking. Suddenly, they want a a Hammond, piano or programmed drums in the mix.

Vegas doesn't have midi features, but... I load up ACID, and rewire hooks the two programs up automatically. I just work in ACID, the time signature, song position, everything is instantly recognised. Vegas is in perfect sync. I can make use of ACIDs new virtual instruments, and MIDI editing. I can hook up a sampler to ACID, such as Halion or Gigastudio, which really extends creative possiblilities.

and to top it all, get nice low latencies on my soundcard for a realtime snappy response from virtual instruments, because I can use the ASIO drivers that have had tonnes of R & D spent on them to make them the best drivers for the soundcard!

I can then jump back into Vegas and tweak a few things coming back in from ACID, until they fit in the mix perfectly.

I can then render from Vegas, and both programs work together to render one final master file.

Nice.

Of course it does put a strain on the computer... but think about running samples on a seperate hard drive and perhaps even dual processors. With any luck there will be a card like the UAD-1 that supports directX so we can take a lot of plugins off the host CPU and onto a dedicated hardware card.

I am aware that this may take a while for Sonic Foundry to implement, but fair enough. They've done a hell of a lot of work on this release, and it's gonna be a great program to create with. If they tried to implement everything at once, they wouldn't have the time to think about how BEST to implement each feature. The priority was clearly to create a program that when used stand alone, is amazing. Hooking it up will be complicated, but I'm sure Sonic Foundry will do it in the BEST way.

The thing I love about Sonic Foundry is that when a new software release comes out, everything is there, functioning, and easy to use. Any bugs are squashed very quickly. Most of the time it's so intuitive, features just pop out at you as you're working.

I am very happy with this release of ACID, and I am sure with all the discussion of ReWire, it will appear in a later software release. Sonic Foundry do listen to their customers! :o)

I feel the "Good" outway the "Bad" in terms of "bloating" up Vegas with rewire. There is enough bloating of "video features" ...why can some "audio related" ones slip in there from time to time ;) .Later.



Name: DSE
Date: Aug 10, 2002 at 04:33 gmt
Subject: Re: DSE - permission to reproduce?

Valid points all...but:
Rewire doesn't work well with anything right now, not that I've seen. SONAR certainly has it's share of Rewire bugs, so does Logic and Nuendo. Reason works GREAT on it's own. I love it.
Maybe down the road when the next 10 gig procs with 1 gig FSB's come out...or something like that. Til then, the VMR works great for most of what you are wanting to do anyway. And using a Gigastudio with this? Are you crazy? Try it. Just do. Giga is a HUGE pig. I have a pair of 80 gig HD's just for my Gigasounds, and NEVER use them anymore. I've been using Vsampler with far greater success.
Vegas has great audio tools. Yes, more would be nice. But....90% of the Vegas users don't remotely touch what audio tools are already there. I'd rather see it continue to compete with it's current, large, and funded market.
This is NOT a new argument. It even precedes Vegas Audio 1.0. It precedes ACID 1.0. Jack S, Chris M, T.J, and others at SOFO have been discussing this concept since the days of Forge 4.0. I'd MUCH rather have a stable, solid app that is missing a few features, than have the UBER MANIFESTO system that some are demanding now. Find me ONE app that can burn a mastered redbook CD like Vegas can, with the featureset even remotely close. Sonic Solutions? Not a prayer. I've got a system for sale if anyone is interested. Nuendo? Nope. Sonar? Nope. Logic? Nope. Musicator? Nope. Why? Because it's proc intensive. Already. And little is more taxing on a proc than time-sync events that must be locked. That'll kill even the fastest systems with enough syncing going on, and even then, you'll always have drift.
With VMR, you can already lock REASON to Vegas, you can lock ACID, SONAR, Logic, Nuendo, and other apps to Vegas. Works good for me.
And I say that while composing on my laptop here in an airport, using ACID locked to Vegas, with a VST synth or 2 open in ACID.

It looks like our imaginations are in the right place but the technology isn't quite there yet to implement these ideas well. I'm sure that by the time the next version of vegas/acid{5} sofo will take a look at what are the standards cpu's/ram/hd are at and make the call whether it be worth the effort. Later.

Subject:RE: I've seen the future and it's name is REWIRE.

Reply by: Jacose

Date:8/15/2002 2:56:18 PM

Also, Jacose was talking about different file types on one track; in Sonar, you place loops, one-shots and full performances on ONE track...what a space saver and a help in mixing.

I feel bad, but I think I may have been misunderstood once again...

I just meant I wanted to be able to do Recording Overdubs in Acid. Different file types may confuse things too much.

Subject:RE: I've seen the future and it's name is REWIRE.

Reply by: Jacose

Date:8/15/2002 2:57:13 PM

I don't mean to start any flame war here, but since ACID 4.0 will support VSTi, there are just as capable synths/samplers/etc. out there like Reaktor. Even Fruityloops will be usable in ACID. (Fruityloops FULL and above only.)


yes that will be sweet, especially because the next release of fruity will have multiple time signatures.

Subject:RE: I've seen the future and it's name is REWIRE.

Reply by: Jacose

Date:8/15/2002 3:00:50 PM

UBER MANIFESTO (what does this mean anyway???!?!??!?!)

here are the steps you need to follow, in my opinion:

1. make recording in ACID more "Vegas-like" (overdubs)

2. wait until fruity gets multi time sigs

3. presto!

all you need in one simple app.

Its what Ive been saying all along.

screw reason, Screw Ableton Live, Just get ACID and Fruity!

Subject:RE: all you need in one simple app.

Reply by: groovewerx

Date:8/15/2002 5:09:58 PM

perhaps because thats all you're able to run on your 98/soundblaster.

Subject:RE: all you need in one simple app.

Reply by: Jacose

Date:8/16/2002 12:27:24 AM

errr, try winXP pentium 4 with terratec EWX88.

Subject:RE: I've seen the future and it's name is REWIRE.

Reply by: SJH

Date:8/16/2002 1:26:42 AM

ReWire?
I've obviously been on another planet. I've been using ACID for a couple years now, and receive the e-bulletins (although I didn't receive the last catalogue), and I don't have a clue what you guys are on about.

I searched on the company website for "ReWire" and it came up zilch.

IS this a plug-in? Or a technology? Something found only in "Pro", which I do not use?

I'm considering upgrading ACID in the near future, so would like to find out more about this _____________ that you folks are in such hot discussion over.

Thanks.

sjh
(involuntary Luddite)

Subject:RE: I've seen the future and it's name is REWIRE.

Reply by: groovewerx

Date:8/16/2002 11:22:06 PM

rewire is to audio software as midi is to synths... its about seamless integration of several apps.

as for jaco's box: woooooooo! so why limit your system's potential?

Subject:RE: I've seen the future and it's name is REWIRE.

Reply by: Jacose

Date:8/16/2002 11:35:43 PM

Its limiting nothing.

I use alot of softsynths and effects. I also use software samplers. These are usually RAM based and if they are HHD based take up alot of CPU. Therefore, If they would only put Overdub capability in ACID, I could just Use fruity as my sequencer/sampler/generator, which is a very simple yet intuative program, and ACID as my recording and loops section.


I dont get it I guess.

Subject:RE: I've seen the future and it's name is REWIRE.

Reply by: Jacose

Date:8/16/2002 11:38:35 PM

BTW groovewerx, what do you want to do thats SOO great anyway???

use reason alongside ACID? thats similar to my "limiting" idea of fruityloops.

Or do you want to use SONAR.... for what? a bunch of unstable bloated features?

I use enough Vsti's amd fx to bring any modern system to its knees if Im not careful, Im sure alot of people do....

Subject:RE: I've seen the future and it's name is REWIRE.

Reply by: groovewerx

Date:8/17/2002 1:10:44 AM

yep...you sound just like one of those guys that were afraid of midi. someone here used the term, "you like to cook in separate pots". i'd like to expand that to separate kitchens.

i use cubase to host many rewire apps and midi (single kitchen). folks like you would have me toggling from app to app (separate kitchens).

Subject:RE: I've seen the future and it's name is REWIRE.

Reply by: Tocque_Deville

Date:8/17/2002 2:49:51 AM

Alrighty now Jacose and who ever else likes to sit
around and argue about why we don't need Rewire,

The people who want Rewire and don't have it have
a legitimate gripe. The people who don't want Rewire
have no gripe. Why? Because even if miraculously SF
decided to implement Rewire in Acid, YOU WOULDN"T HAVE
TO USE IT. In fact you wouldn't even know it was there.

So Rewire implementation cost nothing (literally) and
gains so much for the people who need it. So why not
be a decent chap and jump aboard just for the simple
fact that it won't hurt you but it will help many of
your fellow brethren. Then the next time you guys need
some feature (like a suck meter or something) I'll say,
"here, here, give them that Suck Meter". I'm sure we
could all use a Suck Meter anyway.

Cheers

Subject:RE: I've seen the future and it's name is REWIRE.

Reply by: Jacose

Date:8/17/2002 8:27:32 AM

i use cubase to host many rewire apps and midi (single kitchen). folks like you would have me toggling from app to app (separate kitchens).

if you have read any of my previous posts you would see I WANT change and things to be INTEGRATED.

This falls in accord with your wishes as well, I want everything connected, in the same app, or at least in-sync with co-rendering. The only way My opinion differs from yours is I see Fruity as my solution, and Tying fruity up with ACID is one step closer to integration.. Im just saying I dontreally need rewire like a couple of folks here.

Subject:RE: I've seen the future and it's name is REWIRE.

Reply by: Jacose

Date:8/17/2002 8:31:32 AM

So why not
be a decent chap and jump aboard just for the simple
fact that it won't hurt you but it will help many of
your fellow brethren

I think rewire SHOULD BE implemented.

its just that my solution doesnt really require use of a rewired app at the present moment (unless vegas got rewire as well as ACID.. now that would be sweet).

Im willing to jump on the bandwagon, I always was, I just like to see whats on peoples minds and what they really want, and why. I think rewire is great, and it blows away MIDI connections because it has corendering, but I am happy with the release of 4.0 and looking foward to try it out as it is one step closer into the right direction.

If rewire is so simple, how come SoFo isnt implementing it? I dont get it? Im not questioning the fact that it IS simple, I just dont understand why Sofo wouldnt just throw it in there then.

Subject:RE: I've seen the future and it's name is REWIRE.

Reply by: Jacose

Date:8/17/2002 8:33:38 AM

yep...you sound just like one of those guys that were afraid of midi. someone here used the term, "you like to cook in separate pots". i'd like to expand that to separate kitchens.


Im sorry, but youre not making any sense to me, you just sound like someone who's a little to obsessed about the tools and not so much creativity.

:) afraid of MIDI? hmmmmmmmmmm.......you really dont get what Im saying. but thats ok.

Subject:RE: I've seen the future and it's name is REWIRE.

Reply by: groovewerx

Date:8/17/2002 11:06:11 AM

better tools = greater creativity.

Subject:RE: I've seen the future and it's name is REWIRE.

Reply by: Maruuk

Date:8/17/2002 1:03:01 PM

VSTi? VSTi? We don't got to have no steenking VSTi! We just need ReWire, amigo!

SOFO coders could just stick to optimizing the basics of Acid's current features if they gave us ReWire. Acid could stay as charming, simple and innocent as it wants. Saves development costs, time, and gives us a lower price to boot. Us pros could hook up the kitchen sink if we wanted then, with absolutely no baggage for the purists to mess with. Graintable synths, samplers, drum machines, arpeggiators, VSTi's, DXi's, all plug-ins...the whole universe of sonic toys at our disposal.

Or. We could have a midi module with no input quantization and the incredible OPT standard which opens wide the door to...external hardware dinosaurs. Don't step in the Tritonasaurus doo.

Let Acid be Acid. Let pros be pros.

Subject:RE: I've seen the future and it's name is REWIRE.

Reply by: Jacose

Date:8/17/2002 2:54:22 PM

I defiently agree.