Uh oh...they're at the door... -ACID Product Family

ACID Product Family

Subject:Uh oh...they're at the door... Posted by: waynegee Date:8/14/2002 6:50:29 PM Better get that release done and out pretty quick...they are coming for ya. http://www.cakewalk.com/BasicSONAR/default.asp
Subject:RE: Uh oh...they're at the door... Reply by: SHTUNOT Date:8/14/2002 9:27:41 PM LOL!!! $149 upgrade to acid 4---[no multitracking]. $199-All you could ask for and more. Personally I have to be honest and admit that I haven't used my copy of Sonar 2.0XL because I need to build a new DAW soon. But from what I have used I still can't imagine why acid 4 STILL doesn't have full "Vegas AUDIO" capabilities:ie multitracking.This whole nonsense having to jump between programs is just plain dumb.[Its the whole reason for the rewire debate pretty much!] Sorry. I understand the arguement over keeping each program "The Best" at what each does blah blah. But in practice when I'm using sonar with loops and what have you....ALL the arguements that people make to leave acid the way it is makes no sense since Sonar has proven them wrong. Again I haven't used much of the midi,rewire,etc features...but with using just multitracking,acid loops,DXi's,DX automation...I really hope that there will still be a acid 5. I honest DO prefer acid/vegas interface over sonar...but the more sofo keeps this weak support for audio up I'll be used to it in no time flat. Still like looping in acid more than sonar though...for now...Later.
Subject:RE: Uh oh...they're at the door... Reply by: Iacobus Date:8/14/2002 10:20:12 PM LMAO OK, I was willing to let this go. Really. But now that they have started it... Puh-lease! WTF is this? Am I concerned as a SoFo user? Not really. I've really now lost all respect for Cakewalk. I'm actually glad I don't use any of their crap anymore. They lost me a long time ago. I guess my intuition was correct. I really love that comparison chart. Comparing to ACID Pro 2.0 and 3.0 but not 4.0. Really slick. :ol I see, too, that they are intent on pi$$ing off both Emagic and Steinberg. (They're offering Cubase and Logic users the same deal.) Hey, I'm all for friendly competition, but when you say your product is better than the one I use and is inferior, that's mudslinging. That's not nice. I suppose that's the industry, but why not let users ultimately make the choice instead of trying to convince them otherwise? Honestly, why even make the comparison? ACID is ACID, a loop-based music creation tool. SONAR is...well...whatever...it looks vaguely like a tornado ripped through a MIDI sequencer to me and a poor-a$$ substitute for a looping tool. And that's my opinion and mine alone. Don't like it? Deal with it. Actually, Sonic Foundry should be impressed. If those f--king bunch of hacks at Cakewalk are willing to talk smack, bring it on. With much pugnacity and bile, Iacobus
Subject:RE: Uh oh...they're at the door... Reply by: xxFT13xx Date:8/14/2002 10:37:43 PM i agree...Sonar isnt that great at all...i dont see all the hype. i LOVE Acid Pro...always have...always will...its SO much easier..plus its still very professional. i cant wait for 4.0... -Sin
Subject:RE: Uh oh...they're at the door... Reply by: anon Date:8/14/2002 11:24:37 PM Nice, mD. I'd buy a T-Shirt with that on it :).
Subject:RE: Uh oh...they're at the door... Reply by: ATP Date:8/15/2002 3:33:27 AM i have toyed around with Sonar XL 2.0, and even tho it's very cool to be able to draw a loop and play a VSTi over that all in the same program, its interface leaves much to be desired. i just don't get it. Fruity, Sonar, Logic...wtf is with these programs? the GUI of these programs seems to make no sense, except perhaps from a programmers point of view. i guess i'm just spoiled with ACID. of course, ACID 4 may go down the path of unintelligible GUI as well, but we'll see that when we get there. :)
Subject:RE: Uh oh...they're at the door... Reply by: Lava Date:8/15/2002 3:40:04 AM Shutnot, you posted my thoughts on the whole situation exactly...
Subject:RE: Uh oh...they're at the door... Reply by: Lava Date:8/15/2002 3:42:23 AM To be fair, even though ACID is easier than SONAR, both of them are WAY easier interfaces than Logic and Cubase, by a longshot.
Subject:RE: Uh oh...they're at the door... Reply by: Mus Date:8/15/2002 4:36:10 AM Well, Cakewalk describing Sonar as a "mature" application is a bit rich, but I'm not going to lambast it completely. I'm trying the crossgrade from Logic at the moment but I'm on a minimum spec 533 Celeron machine so I'll reserve judgement 'til my P4 arrives tomorrow. I still prefer Logic's clearer interface for looped sequences and ultimate midi control but Sonar seems to work adequately once you suss the workarounds I supose. The other point though is that after doing the SForge, Acid and Vegas $99 downloads within a year I'm being asked for $129, $149 and $179 because no one program has enough features to be useful without using ^%$^%$ing MTC. I might stick with Sonar and just about go for the Vegas 3 upgrade for the CD-burning and Video capabilities and stick with Acid 3 and SForge 5 "for what they each do best". M
Subject:RE: Uh oh...they're at the door... Reply by: mtb Date:8/15/2002 6:10:54 AM Can of worms time again. I'm probably like a lot of people - totally love Acid's ease of use but get annoyed at not being able to end-to-end something. Sonar 2 LOOKS like it'll do alot of the things I dig about acid (auto time-stretching etc since I mostly do dance stuff) but it sounds like it's much harder to use... Any objective (is there such a thing) multi-users out there who can give a little informed insight into how Sonar 2 and Acid 4 stack up in terms of looping & audio editing?
Subject:RE: Uh oh...they're at the door... Reply by: waynegee Date:8/15/2002 1:47:59 PM I'm just really getting started w/ Sonar but from what I've seen so far: for looping: Acid is definitely more intuitive but once you understand Sonar's object model, it's a piece of cake. You also have the ability to multi-track and place loops, multitrack performances and one-shots on the same track. It won't be like paint and play, though...you'll have to pay some dues. Worth it, tho. for editing: Again, Acid is more intuitive but the basic functionality is the same. You can open Sound Forge from inside either program, make your changes and the file will be updated. Sonar has the coveted "Remove Silence" command which will strip your audio files of empty space, which is great for CPU and hard disk access. You can slide your loops/audio around, slip edit, trim, snap to grid and split in both programs. No ripple editing in Sonar. I'm sure the some of the Acid users might be a bit peeved at my remarks but it's just the way I see it, so far. There are other things also that might make Sonar a fit like: infinitely customizable environment; access to the .ini and .ins files which allow you further customize the look and performance of Sonar; it will host/automate DXi and VSTi effects and synths; there are a butload of control surfaces available, ReWire is already there, and Sonar will soon allow you to save your projects in a format (OMFI) that Pro Tools, Nuendo, Digital Performer and others can open as well. So it may or may not be what you or anyone is looking for (or needs, for that matter) but that's my mostly unbiased opinion. I'm a SoFo fan but I gotta keep my options open as I need my tools to grow as I do. Acid may continue to be my main thang but until I get it (whenever the F*%K that is!) and evaluate it, I be checking around. I advise anyone to download demos and scope them out. And no matter what I or anyone else may feel about it, there must be a reason why Sonar is winning so many awards and getting kick ass reviews and I'm gonna find out why. I wanna be the best and work with the best. Later.
Subject:RE: Uh oh...they're at the door... Reply by: Jessariah Date:8/15/2002 2:14:05 PM Everybody has their favorites, but anyone who says SONAR isn't a high-end app is either a hack or has never spent much time with it. Maybe when it was ProAudio, but when they completely overhauled the app to make it "Sonar" they raised the stakes quite a bit. I can't say anything about Steinberg, because I've never toyed with them (WaveLab a bit) -- and why? Because if I find something that does the job, I don't go looking for something else. That's why I'll be around for Acid 24 and SONAR 24. Actually, Sonar doesn't even come close to Acid's abilities when it comes to loop-based mixing (IMHO). Acid is the best at this kind of music making because (gulp!) that was what it was designed for. God, is everyone foaming at the mouth lately or what? (present company included...)
Subject:RE: Uh oh...they're at the door... Reply by: Iacobus Date:8/15/2002 2:27:29 PM Oh, I honestly have no problems with that, Wayne. I realize that some people use SONAR by itself, some people use ACID Pro by itself, and some people use both together. As always, you use what works for you. Don't let anyone try to steer you any other way. Even though I don't think highly of Cakewalk and Twelve Tone Systems (anymore), if I can help a user out with one of their programs, I will try to see what I can do. There are users over at the DigiTech forums who are getting to grips with Guitar Tracks (which comes with the DigiTech GNX guitar effects processor series), so I try to help out anyway with general issues. My point is you don't see Sonic Foundry making comparisons and haughty proclamations that its product is superior to that product. Also, again, why make a comparison to SONAR? It's like apples and oranges. SONAR is touted as a digital multitrack recording system. OK, fine. ACID is touted as a loop-based music production tool. I see a big difference there. I've never seen ACID touted as otherwise. ACID, to me, is just part of a family of products that includes Sound Forge, Vegas Video, et al. And I don't want a product that's akin to a Swiss Army knife. Ever. I want a product that can concentrate at what it specializes in. Iacobus
Subject:RE: Uh oh...they're at the door... Reply by: SHTUNOT Date:8/15/2002 3:22:35 PM My point is you don't see Sonic Foundry making comparisons and haughty proclamations that its product is superior to that product--- Then obviously you haven't been to the "Vegas Video" comparison page. http://www.sonicfoundry.com/products/NewShowProduct.asp?PID=612&FeatureID=5496 Sofo is unfortunately pushing their funds towards "VIDEO". Thats why their flagship app is called Vegas "Video". And not Vegas "Audio"...with really amazing video features.{funny for a company with a name like -"SONIC"-foundry to have a -"VIDEO"-app as its flagship} I have NEVER seen sofo ever come close to comparing themselves with ANY other audio app[steinberg/logic/cakewalk].No other audio company feels sofo as a threat. Logic gets taken over by apple and sofo just keeps their eyes on the "Video" prize with NO crossgrade offer to any ex-logic user.{I felt it was worth a shot} Go to any video related sales site and you WILL see sofo using the SAME marketing tactics such as "crossgrade offers" or "competitive upgrade" blah blah. The reasons for the video push...because they can compete with video features but with audio...common. Obviously the moto of "keep it simple+best" didn't work that well at all if the name "Vegas Audio" was "Dropped" so quickly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I really thought that acid 4 was going to be what "Vegas Audio 3" was supposed to be. That way you would have had Acid as the audio producing/filmscoring giant...Vegas Video for the Film editing,Soundforge for etc...The only people up in arms are the audio croud actually.There is a thread in the Vegas audio forum over adding ALL of acids new features into vegas...But the point that I think that is getting lost is that the audio croud doesn't care for the Video side of vegas being integrated with acid. JUST THE AUDIO. One app for each genera[spelling?]. Gut the video features and be done with this arguement. The reality is that some feel that acid would be taking a "step back" if Vegas features were added to it. Like I said before when I'm using sonar I can envision how much COOLER it would be if I was using a acid/vegas tool[again film scoring...NOT EDITING/DVD/COMPOSITING/PRINT TO TAPE FROM THE FREAKIN TIMELINE] Whatever though. I'll be getting the acid upgrade for kicks[still like it best]. And I will always have sonar to fall back on in a pinch. No matter what I'll be on sofo side till...? Later.
Subject:RE: Uh oh...they're at the door... Reply by: nlamartina Date:8/15/2002 5:48:22 PM Wayne, Yes, there is a reason Sonar wins so many awards. It's called advertising. MOTU does the same thing. Pick up any issue of Keyboard, Mix, Remix, Electronic Musician, etc, and you'll find them all packed full of Sonar adds (or MOTU). Now imagine yourself as a reviewer for one of those magazines. As much as you'd like to trash Cakewalk or MOTU products for their weak points (hypothetically speaking) would it really be "fiscally sound" to slam the product of your biggest advertiser? Heck no. Instead, you write vague reviews, gloss over weak points, and hand out awards. It's all advertising dollars at work. I'm not saying MOTU and Cakewalk don't make great products, but I'd have a lot more trust and belief in both companies if they didn't make such an effort to shove their product down my throat. That's why Sonic Foundry rules. Minimal advertising, but still great reviews and lots of awards. Silent and deadly. That's something a smart buyer pays attention to, because if a company needs to dumps thousands into flashy marketing campaigns, it's probably because they have to. m2c, Nick
Subject:RE: Uh oh...they're at the door... Reply by: MyST Date:8/16/2002 5:51:46 AM People switching to Sonar better have a fast machine... 1.2Ghz recommended by Cakewalk with 256Megs of Ram! Obviously this app is heavy on the CPU usage. I remember a few months ago people seemed to complain that they were getting cracks and pops with Acid because their PC wasn't fast enough. SF recommends what... about 500Mhz and 128Megs of Ram (I'm not talking about the minimum req). Personally, I'd have to factor in the cost of a new PC to switch to Sonar(no problem with SF apps using my 850Mhz). The way Acid is evolving, I personally have no need or desire to switch. But hey, that's just me! ¢¢

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