Subject:Tell us about the MIDI Piano Roll Editor in ACID 4.0

Posted by: bartchilders

Date:8/9/2002 10:14:07 AM

So..is it going to be the "Sound Forge for MIDI" I've been wishing for years?

Subject:RE: Tell us about the MIDI Piano Roll Editor in ACID 4.0

Reply by: pwppch

Date:8/10/2002 1:18:02 PM

I wouldn't go that far....

It is a OPT plugin Editor - Level 3 in the view of the OPT standard. I know, what does this mean? Simply that it is an installable component.

- It will permit you to edit note data and note velocity.
- It support cut/copy/paste of note data.
- Realtime preview of notes
- Preview playback functionatity outside of the main time line.

Any specific questions?

Peter

Subject:RE: Tell us about the MIDI Piano Roll Editor in ACID 4.0

Reply by: Maruuk

Date:8/11/2002 12:45:27 PM

Quantization?

Subject:RE: Tell us about the MIDI Piano Roll Editor in ACID 4.0

Reply by: pwppch

Date:8/11/2002 3:03:43 PM

Nope.

Peter

Subject:RE: Tell us about the MIDI Piano Roll Editor in ACID 4.0

Reply by: zendar

Date:8/11/2002 7:32:34 PM

what??

Subject:RE: Tell us about the MIDI Piano Roll Editor in ACID 4.0

Reply by: Lava

Date:8/11/2002 9:25:43 PM

Are you kidding? Can one quantize MIDI notes during real-time (non-step) recording?

Subject:RE: Tell us about the MIDI Piano Roll Editor in ACID 4.0

Reply by: pwppch

Date:8/11/2002 9:59:32 PM

No. There is no quantize on recording input.

Peter

Subject:RE: Tell us about the MIDI Piano Roll Editor in ACID 4.0

Reply by: Lava

Date:8/11/2002 11:51:03 PM

Man, I'm about to go Maruuk on your asses, that is ridiculous? Why SF, why?

Subject:RE: Tell us about the MIDI Piano Roll Editor in ACID 4.0

Reply by: zendar

Date:8/12/2002 12:37:58 AM

they giveth and they taketh away. its cd architect pt 2

Subject:RE: Tell us about the MIDI Piano Roll Editor in ACID 4.0

Reply by: Lava

Date:8/12/2002 2:46:52 AM

Well, they lost me. SONAR it is. Hopefully they will address this in a future update, and I can switch back. I love SF interfaces.

Subject:RE: Tell us about the MIDI Piano Roll Editor in ACID 4.0

Reply by: Maruuk

Date:8/12/2002 11:23:05 AM

Man, I love SOFO and Acid like a lot of you guys, and they need us like we need them. But midi without input quantizing is like a kick in the teeth. I mean, I had that on Master Tracks Pro on my 1040ST in 1987. It saves mega-time when you've got deadlines to meet. Plus even the piano-roll editing is an OPT plug-in, not even integrated.

All this secrecy and waiting for 12 months for a very weak broth. SOFO, you need to upgrade some very key features into 4.1. You went interactive and asked for our laundry list of needs. Then you give us 1 or 2 of them, not even from the top of the list. And a whole bunch of other wacked-out features nobody asked for. That's not interactive, that's inactive.

4.1 is built with our 4.0 upgrade dollars. Fair enough. We will go the extra mile, SOFO, but only if you commit to do the same for us.

Subject:RE: Tell us about the MIDI Piano Roll Editor in ACID 4.0

Reply by: cyberbeat

Date:8/12/2002 11:42:08 AM

All I can say is that I am so glad I decided to go with Sonar. Being a proud owner of Acid 2 and 3, I have supported SF in the past. However, approximately six months ago I made the switch to Sonar because Acid wasn't meeting my MIDI needs. I had hoped that Acid 4 would be an improvement and that I could go back to Acid. However, the more I read about the new Acid release the more I am thankful that I have Sonar. I'm not trying to dis SF, I'm just relating my honest experience.

Subject:RE: Tell us about the MIDI Piano Roll Editor in ACID 4.0

Reply by: waynegee

Date:8/12/2002 12:04:50 PM

I have been checking out Sonar as well...as much as I hate to say it...it's pretty cool. I don't think it has "quantize on input" MIDI recording either, though. It all seems to be "after the fact" quantizing.

Subject:RE: Tell us about the MIDI Piano Roll Editor in ACID 4.0

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:8/12/2002 12:42:59 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but could a third-party OPT plug-in have a "quantization on input" feature?

From what I've read up on Yamaha's OPT, you should be able to do anything via an OPT plug-in that you can do via a standalone MIDI editor (like quantization on input), correct?

If such a possibility were true, would ACID Pro 4.0 then seem like salvation to you all?

Iacobus

Subject:RE: Tell us about the MIDI Piano Roll Editor in ACID 4.0

Reply by: Lava

Date:8/12/2002 1:34:22 PM

SONAR does have quantize on input MIDI recording.

Subject:RE: Tell us about the MIDI Piano Roll Editor in ACID 4.0

Reply by: waynegee

Date:8/12/2002 1:58:26 PM

Hey Lava,
I thought so but I couldn't find it...how do you activate it?

Subject:"About to go Maruuk on your asses " lol lol lol

Reply by: Jacose

Date:8/12/2002 2:58:03 PM

wow you must be proud of yourself, maruuk!!! you got a saying named after you!

Subject:RE:

Reply by: Maruuk

Date:8/12/2002 3:06:46 PM

Hey, that's outstanding! I'd like to thank OJ, Mr. T and Mike Tyson for inspiring me to this dizzying pinnacle of Medievalness.

Subject:RE: Tell us about the MIDI Piano Roll Editor in ACID 4.0

Reply by: spiral_scratch

Date:8/12/2002 4:04:50 PM

what an odd thread.

a piano roll editor is a piano roll editor is a piano roll editor. I assume it is intended to allow mouse entry of midi data...why would it quantise on midi input?

what is interesting is that sofo have implemented it as a plug-in using OPT. Opening Acid up in this way - even if it is with a new and unestablished architecture - is very exciting for the future.

once Acid 4 is released I would be interested to hear from any Motif users out there how well (if at all) the plug-in Motif editor works with it.

other than that, we will have to see if any enterprising programmers amoungst us would like to create midi quantization (and other) extensions.

Subject:RE: Tell us about the MIDI Piano Roll Editor in ACID 4.0

Reply by: nlamartina

Date:8/12/2002 6:03:24 PM

Guys, guys, guys... For crying out loud, how many of you have actually been using Acid 4? From the way you keep poo-pooing about the MIDI features, I'd say none of you, because if you had, you'd understand that there's a lot more depth to it beside what's writtten. And Maruuk, you're still wrong about the piano roll editor. You'd all be smart to wait until you get a chance to actually use the software before you start jumping ship. How many of you actually buy or reject software based solely upon what you read? Not many I'd venture. Just wait to try it.

- Nick

Subject:RE: Tell us about the MIDI Piano Roll Editor in ACID 4.0

Reply by: Maruuk

Date:8/12/2002 6:17:02 PM

All I know is that it's an installable Yamaha OPT plug-in and it can't do input quantization, that's straight from a SOFO spokesperson. I love piano-roll editing and welcome the basic concept, it just sounds as unfinished as a certain symphony.

Subject:RE: Tell us about the MIDI Piano Roll Editor in ACID 4.0

Reply by: nlamartina

Date:8/12/2002 8:17:02 PM

I wasn't talking about the quantization. I was referring to the OPT nature. It may be installable, but that refers to the nature in which it interfaces with Acid. I mean, heck, DX plugins are installable, but they integrate quite nicely into the Acid environment, don't they?

- Nick

Subject:RE: Tell us about the MIDI Piano Roll Editor in ACID 4.0

Reply by: waynegee

Date:8/12/2002 8:28:24 PM

Well, if they'd come with it already maybe we wouldn't have to speculate. I think they should not EVEN let us know it's coming until it's ready to come. The waiting is driving us all nuts.

Subject:Maruuk!

Reply by: Jacose

Date:8/12/2002 8:30:11 PM

Im sorry, I have come close to outright hating you, but I have to admit, you are THE MAN! thank you for your insightful yet sometimes rude comments!

Subject:RE: Tell us about the MIDI Piano Roll Editor in ACID 4.0

Reply by: Maruuk

Date:8/12/2002 8:30:23 PM

One of the potential positives in that is the possibility of a 3rd-party developer upgrading the module, rather than waiting for a whole new Acid Rev. Or multiple modules customized for the user's needs from simple to complex.

If SOFO was smart, they'd encourage 3rd-parties to develop ReWire modules and other key features as plug-in elements so the users had less wait time to the next bump up in capability. Plus it allows pros and tyros to scale for their own needs without needless complexity.

The way a lot of companies handle this is by acquiring or being acquired by a quiescent outfit that could complement SOFO's dev needs. SOFO is certainly an acquisition candidate right at the moment and consolodation is the name of the game in this industry. Stay tuned.

Subject:RE: Tell us about the MIDI Piano Roll Editor in ACID 4.0

Reply by: Maruuk

Date:8/12/2002 8:56:13 PM

Yeah, I don't think they fully grok the toll this endless waiting takes on us. Speculation is still all we've got, even as we speak.

"No reason to get excited," the thief, he kindly spoke,
"There are many here among us who feel that 4.0 is but a joke.
But you and I, we've been through that, and this is not our fate,
So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late."

Subject:RE: Tell us about the MIDI Piano Roll Editor in ACID 4.0

Reply by: SonicJG

Date:8/12/2002 11:26:57 PM

Iacobus-

True.

-Joel

Subject:RE: Tell us about the MIDI Piano Roll Editor in ACID 4.0

Reply by: nlamartina

Date:8/13/2002 12:00:41 AM

You know Maruuk, I think the reason that we haven't gotten along in the past is that we're so much like each other. I see that more and more in your posts. Anyway...

There are those that say, "I will wait no longer,
for my passion for Acid grows stronger and stronger.
With a piano roll editor, automation and more,
I can't help but wonder why it's not in stores.
Maybe there isn't an Acid at all,
or maybe our SoFo is dropping the ball.
Whatever it is, I'll take no more talk.
Give me my Acid, or I'll eat up Cakewalk."

But aye there's the rub, let your worry abate.
Good fortunes oft come to those who will wait.
Poor Joel and the rest work hours on end
tirelessly slaving, on that you can depend.

And so when it's out, you might say, "Now this bites!"
But other may think, "Man this software is tight!"
'Cause just like before, it comes down to you,
Does it fill your needs? To thine own self be true.
So to Jack it's the bomb, and to Tony it's sliced bread,
and maybe dear Patty likes Cubase instead,
but however you look at it, there's one thing you'll see,
it sure beats the sh-t out of ol’ Acid 3.

- Nick

Subject:RE: Tell us about the MIDI Piano Roll Editor in ACID 4.0

Reply by: pwppch

Date:8/13/2002 12:52:10 AM

There is Quantize in ACID 4's MIDI editing. I didn't think we'd get it done, but with the hoopla in this thread I figured I had better finish it before you guys started to cut your throats.

See, we do listen....

Peter

Subject:RE: Tell us about the MIDI Piano Roll Editor in ACID 4.0

Reply by: Spirit

Date:8/13/2002 3:52:38 AM

Wow, well how about that !
:) :) :)
Cancelling your Sonar orders now ?

Subject:RE: Tell us about the MIDI Piano Roll Editor in ACID 4.0

Reply by: Maruuk

Date:8/13/2002 11:58:00 AM

I think it was the estimable nlamartina who first pointed out it was the very nature of the midi OPT plug-in to be easily upgradeable by either SOFO or 3rd-parties, or to allow 3rd-parties to offer new midi utility plug-ins with more complete functions at a low cost.

Now this is probably not realistic technically, but how many of us would sell our Grandma's Bill Laswell collection for an OPT ReWire plug-in?

Subject:RE: Tell us about the MIDI Piano Roll Editor in ACID 4.0

Reply by: Lava

Date:8/13/2002 11:59:58 AM

Just for you Maruuk, just for you:

(raises hand) ME ME!

(not really, but I got my wish so I'll try and help with yours)

Subject:RE: Tell us about the MIDI Piano Roll Editor in ACID 4.0

Reply by: Maruuk

Date:8/13/2002 3:48:12 PM

Lava--Uh, think she'd take a George Foreman autographed walker and 78 of Al Jolson loops for the set?