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Subject:REWIRE for those who...I dunno...I...ummm
Posted by: waynegee
Date:8/3/2002 10:03:27 PM
I'm not trying to start trouble but I own Sonar and Reason...I Rewired 'em together and was tremendously underwhelmed. I couldn't figure out the big deal...I obviously didn't get it. I'm not saying it was bad or good...I just didn't get it. If I use Reason to create my loops and import them in to Acid...how is this inferior to hooking the two apps w/ Rewire? Cuz' I have to render the audio files? Hmmmm, I really don't get it...can someone explain the benefit to me (nicely and in English)? It seems to be six on one and a half-dozen on the other... P.S.: I just won the Geri King remix contest at AcidPlanet (no Rewire there, either). |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those who...I dunno...I...ummm
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:8/3/2002 10:13:33 PM
Congrats Wayne! Iacobus |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those who...I dunno...I...ummm
Reply by: Spirit
Date:8/4/2002 2:20:13 AM
My congrats also. As for Rewire, it's like the forum is being dominated by a political lobby. It's the same stuff over and over again tempered with a little "if SoFo don't support the great cause of Rewire their app will be condemned to obscurity and damnation". In no other music forum currently discussing AcidPro4 does this issue rate more than a passing mention. I actually feel sorry for SoFo that the announcement of AcidPro4 and its fantastic set of new features seems to have been either dumped on or "damned by faint praise" on their own forum because of this single - and in my opinion minor - issue. I'm not anti-Rewire, it's just that I think their point has been made clear many times and in many ways. Message received. Here's hoping for version 5. At least the upgrade is being appreciated for what it is in other forums. |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those who...I dunno...I...ummm
Reply by: Jessariah
Date:8/4/2002 7:50:08 AM
I agree as well. My contention with the hardcore propellerheads is that they're bombing an upgrade before even testing it. If, for some reason, any wave I rendered in Sonar was not going to be compatible with Acid, that would mess with my system of doing things. But that would also be TAKING AWAY from something I'm already used to. Those who use Rewire already have a workaround for Acid, yet they make it sound like now they'll be even more inconvenienced than before. It simply isn't true. They're not getting a particular feature they want, but it seems like they're ignoring the new features that are definitely going to improve Acid as a STAND ALONE application, which it ultimately is. Adding Rewire support (or VSTi & ASIO) does nothing for me, personally. Effects busses, improved MIDI, automation -- actual Acid features that have been added/improved -- not only does me a lot of good, but ANYBODY else who uses it as well. Basically: First priority is to improve the application itself. Third party support is a bone, and no matter WHAT SoFo adds along those lines, chances are many Acid users aren't going to have a use for any particular platform that has been chose. |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those who...I dunno...I...ummm
Reply by: Jacose
Date:8/4/2002 9:56:58 AM
Its sad that people cant suggest features and debate about them without saying ACID 4- REWIRE = WORHTLESS... ....or ACID 4 -MUltitrack = worhtless... I personally cannot wait to use aCID 4, to be albe to use softsynths and edit MIDI.. Ive been waiting for that for so long it feels like.... yipppie!!! |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those who...I dunno...I...ummm
Reply by: groovewerx
Date:8/4/2002 12:27:18 PM
how do you know you won the contest? there's no mention on the page and waynegee is unfound in ap search. anyway, the main benefit i get from rewie is that i can mix, add fx, automate, and have the same control over a rewired track as i would any recorded or imported audio track. the difference being that i can do this in real-time. take rebirth for instance: stand-alone it has 4 sound modules (2 bass and 2 drum) with only 2 audio outputs and 1 fx bus for 16 different instruments. which means any fx i add to a bassdrum will be added to the rest of the sounds of that drum module and i can only use the same fx on the other sound modules. when rewired i can add 8 different fx to every individual sound of that drum module and i can add more different fx to the 3 other modules. thats 8 fx x 16 mono outputs vs. 1 fx x 1 stereo output. its a matter of controling your audio in real-time and getting the best mix possible. would you rather be limited to the standard 2track output of acid or have an output for each individual track. that guy was right when he said rewire users have a work-a-round. i know i do. acid3 is fine at what it does, i'm sure 4 will do those same things even better but until they include rewire, i have no compelling reason to upgrade. i'm not putting acid4 down, how could i when i haven't seen/used it yey? but judging from the highlighted new features, i know i won't be buying it. not just because it has no rewire but also for the same reason i don't buy loop libraries. i don't NEED them. gimme what i need and i'll spend $$. until then keep improving... |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those who...I dunno...I...ummm
Reply by: waynegee
Date:8/4/2002 12:39:07 PM
Cool...I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing the boat. I AM a HARDCORE Reason user and it seems I'd be just the guy to want/need Rewire but I don't get the benefit. I mean, I couldn't see the difference between my files being played in Sonar from Reason thru Rewire OR my files being played in Sonar from Reason thru .wav files...sounded the same, I could apply effects the same...I actually felt I had less control 'cuz I couldn't manipulate the audio in the manner I wanted(i.e.: sliced, diced, bit-crushed, etc). Oh well. Jacose, I'm sorry to say but you and others are defintely missing the point. READ MY LIPS: NOONE is or has said that the features you want are worthless, they just don't give them the same importance that you do. (Please don't misconstrue or try to twist the last sentence.) If you have a workflow and it currently works than by all means, keep using it until you DO get what you need. Maybe the omission of features you were hoping for may hurt your feelings but your workflow WILL STILL FLOW until version 5 or 6 or 7 or to infinity and beyond. I think the problem some are having is the endless doom-saying, the "since this isn't present, then ACID 4 is worthless" vibe. And the fact that the topic has been talked to death yet it continues to be brought up over and over and over. Also, an irritant is that some continually invoke freedom of speech and other inalienable rights in the name of whining. If you don't understand anything in this paragraph, let me know and I will go over it again. I asked for you or any of the other Rewire advocates to explain the benefits to me. I didn't criticize or belittle the technology or the users of it. But none of the Rewire advocates saw fit to try and clear it up or educate me on how it can benfit me. I also created a post called "Window into your workflow" with the intent that if we all understood how each of us works, then maybe the confusuion and misunderstanding would dissipate. Again, no one from the Pro-Rewire camp saw fit to write, NOT ONE. Yet, I'm still seeing the bitching, whining and generally negative. tone in all of the other posts from the same five or six posters. Which leads me to believe one thing, these 5 or 6 are NOT TRYING TO GET ALONG, TRYING TO UNDERSTAND, TRYING TO CREATE A COMMUNITY ENVIRONMENT. Since we ALL didn't get Rewire, how's about the Pro-rewire-ers help us ALL to devise a way we can get the most out of our current software status until we do get Rewire, yes? Show us your altruistic side and help us make the best of it, whydon'tcha? The Pro Rewire-ers are very intelligent and literate so I know this is not an unreasonable request. So tell me, please, how continually bringing any topic up past the point of reason is going to change anything. I am truly interested in how you think carping will make changes. I agree that SoFo needs to know our needs and wants, but believe me, I think they've heard 'em. I'll wait for your reply. If this technique is that effective, I need to be using it in my everyday life. Thanks all. Spirit, what other forums do you visit? I'd like to check 'em out. |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those who...I dunno...I...ummm
Reply by: groovewerx
Date:8/4/2002 1:18:40 PM
how much time would it take you to render 16 3 minute tracks from acid and then import them into sonar or cubase? even with my superbaddass system it took me 5 minutes. with rewire the tracks never have to leave their host app. no rendering = more drive space = less defragmenting = fewer glitches = faster system = more productive time |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those who...I dunno...I...ummm
Reply by: Maruuk
Date:8/4/2002 1:29:50 PM
Gee Wayne, I've explained in great detail 5 or 6 times why ReWire is a necessary ingredient for many users. Look around. You're a cook-in-separate-pots composer. That's fine. But don't put down users who want to integrate their apps in real time and have full control over every track in the final co-rendered mix. For me, I can't imagine pre-mixing any component of my mix before rendering--it would feel like working with a 4-track in 1971. As to anyone saying 4.0 is worthless, I've read every thread and have never seen that. VSTi's useful, and the midi editing is good. It's obviously an improvement, and maybe they even buried the lead with the mysterious audio engine upgrade reference. They're being very quiet about that, but that could be significant, especially for CPU-challenged users, of whom I bet there are many, but they don't come on here as much as the more advanced users. Was the ReWire omission a serious one? I feel it is, others who wouldn't use it anyway of course don't. Will they rectify the situation quickly? I absolutely believe they will, if only because their reaction to criticism about it was so extreme, it informs us that they're embarrassed and defensive at the way it's taken some of the shine off the 4.0 brass, and midnight oil will burn to bring it to us before the X-mas buying spree. The holiday software market is enormous, and wildly competitive, and entering it hitting on only 7 cylinders out of 8 would be economic folly for the product. |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those who...I dunno...I...ummm
Reply by: Lava
Date:8/4/2002 1:38:17 PM
Question: Am I correct in assuming that using ReWire uses a ton of CPU power since you're running more than one audio app at the same time? Also, how do you ReWire users get around the "oh man everything is all disorganized and my files are all in different formats" feeling when using it? That's a big reason why I don't use it, I like everything to be one simple format, not a bunch of different things that I need to string together using ReWire. |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those who...I dunno...I...ummm
Reply by: waynegee
Date:8/4/2002 1:59:21 PM
Cool post, Groovewerx..it really illuminates the possibilities of Rewire, seems really cool. As far as winning the contest, I got an email from Steve Foldvari informing me and then I got a call from the label. You can find it here: http://www.acidplanet.com/Lounge/Detail.asp?PID=168705. They don't always get around to announcing winners right away. They said it could be up to a week or so plus there is legal and such. Now Maruuk, do I have to go thru each and every post to find the statements of worth and usefulness for you? Or are you trying to take it literally? Well, don't. By saying a company is going out of business because their product doesn't meet your/or most needs is saying that product is worthless to you/and most. By someone saying because it doesn't have Rewire or whatever and that they are NOT going to upgrade is basically saying it is worthless to them or for them an upgrade has no value. C'mon, you are very intelligent and able to read and write very cogently. Let's stop playing word games. Also, I know you can read so where in my post do I "put down" users of Rewire. I asked you guys NOT TO MISCONSTRUE what was written. If you or anyone else does not understand the post, please let me know as I am more than happy to explain myself. Also, I wanna know how you work, man! How've you been working? Put your workflow where your mouth is, mate! How have you been getting along all these years without Rewire? I know you can write an objective, non-emotional, non-inflammatory bullet-list of steps, so please do. I'll await your reply. |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those who...I dunno...I...ummm
Reply by: waynegee
Date:8/4/2002 2:03:23 PM
Yeah, it brought my computer to it's knees, for sure. |
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Subject:waynegee, you totally missed the boat on that one!
Reply by: Jacose
Date:8/4/2002 8:03:57 PM
Im saying that if you are SO harddcore about REWIRE and MULTItrack that you render ACID 4 worthless because they dont have them, youre being ignorant. |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those who...I dunno...I...ummm
Reply by: Jacose
Date:8/4/2002 8:04:32 PM
no rendering = more drive space = less defragmenting = fewer glitches = faster system = more productive time true true true.... |
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Subject:RE: waynegee, you totally missed the boat on that one!
Reply by: waynegee
Date:8/4/2002 9:46:34 PM
Huh? I...ummm...was that English?...errr...either I'm drunk or we're in Europe 'cuz I don't know what the feck that was! Better get your translation dictionary our and try again, mate. Ciao. |
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Subject:RE: waynegee, you totally missed the boat on that one!
Reply by: Maruuk
Date:8/4/2002 11:13:28 PM
I'm not aware anybody has ever said Acid was useless without ReWire. Or that SoFo would go out of business without it. I would certainly take issue with either of those statements. Some straw dog is being set up to easily knock down, but I'm not sure what the purpose of that is. Bottom line, ReWire is coming to us all (whether we want it or not), and before the end of November. |
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Subject:RE: waynegee, you totally missed the boat on that one!
Reply by: Spirit
Date:8/4/2002 11:31:30 PM
Thank God for that. |
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Subject:RE: waynegee, you totally missed the boat on that one!
Reply by: CDM
Date:8/5/2002 1:04:37 PM
Bottom line, ReWire is coming to us all (whether we want it or not), and before the end of November. Maruuk - what are you talking about here? |
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Subject:RE: waynegee, you totally missed the boat on that one!
Reply by: Maruuk
Date:8/5/2002 1:23:33 PM
VSampler just announced ReWire in v.3! Yes! Acid must have ReWire by the huge Christmas buying spree which begins in earnest on the Thanksgiving weekend. Sales would be tepid without it, and SoFo would be kissing off a lot of money for no purpose. As it is, between now and then, leakage to other apps due to Acid's tiny feature set have already set in. It's scary when you imagine an app comparison feature grid with Acid against pretty much any other Acid-compatible app. They a sea of "yes" and Acid 4.0 a sea of "no". And for you Luddites who want Acid to stay simple and toy-like--that's cool too. With ReWire, Acid can do it all without any added complexity to get in the way. It's transparent. 90% of all software sales for the year happen in the Christmas season. SoFo are not fools. They will deliver connectivity down the chimney, and get their cookies and milk, and fair share of loot. |
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Subject:RE: waynegee, you totally missed the boat on that one!
Reply by: MyST
Date:8/5/2002 1:30:28 PM
"As it is, between now and then, leakage to other apps due to Acid's tiny feature set have already set in." "90% of all software sales for the year happen in the Christmas season" Just wondering where you get your stats? M |
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Subject:RE: waynegee, you totally missed the boat on that one!
Reply by: Maruuk
Date:8/5/2002 1:35:32 PM
Been in the software game 20 years. Christmas is IT, baby! You miss that boat, you eat coconuts for another 12 months. |
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Subject:RE: waynegee, you totally missed the boat on that one!
Reply by: MyST
Date:8/5/2002 2:33:48 PM
See, I wouldn't have thought that applied to Pro level audio software, more for games and such. Then again, I heard the busiest time of year for the Porsche dealership in Montreal is Christmas. Now THAT'S one hell of a stocking stuffer!!! :) |
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Subject:RE: waynegee, you totally missed the boat on that one!
Reply by: Maruuk
Date:8/5/2002 3:11:31 PM
Games is like 93% unless you have a year where major console hardware hits off-season, but the PC market keeps it prety steady. And poor customers wonder why they're so beat up by advertising blitzes every Fall. Walmart's getting in its first Christmas stuff starting next week. Jingle bells...Ka-ching Ka-ching! |
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Subject:RE: waynegee, you totally missed the boat on that one!
Reply by: Lava
Date:8/5/2002 3:17:45 PM
Maruuk, It's so funny how you go around proclaiming that you never said SF was going out of business if they don't include ReWire, yet you mention things like SF laying off people, how they will lose a ton of money at Christmas if they don't put it in. You also say you never personally insulted anybody, yet I have seen you call people "chumps" and "luddites" on this very forum. |
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Subject:RE: waynegee, you totally missed the boat on that one!
Reply by: DataCowboy
Date:8/5/2002 3:28:27 PM
From looking at SF's financial filings, it doesn't look like they are 4th-Quarter-bound like the gaming companies. In fact, their software revenue seems to be primarily release-driven, regardless of the quarter. Hex |
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Subject:RE: waynegee, you totally missed the boat on that one!
Reply by: waynegee
Date:8/5/2002 3:40:13 PM
That wasn't Maruuk...it was evil twin brother Ramuuk! He would NEVER do such a thing...just ask him. |
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Subject:RE: waynegee, you totally missed the boat on that one!
Reply by: Maruuk
Date:8/5/2002 4:08:29 PM
Lava--You just don't pay attention! I say I've never--ever--instigated any personal attacks or insults against anyone in this forum. Once the paid attack dogs start coming after me, I have a perfect right to defend myself. BTW, 3/14/2000 $64, 8/5/2002 $1.05. Take stock in those numbers, my friends. Numbers do not lie. |
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Subject:RE: waynegee, you totally missed the boat on that one!
Reply by: Maruuk
Date:8/5/2002 4:09:31 PM
Speaking of which: 3/14/2000 $64, 8/5/2002 $1.05 |
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Subject:RE: waynegee, you totally missed the boat on that one!
Reply by: Maruuk
Date:8/5/2002 4:12:05 PM
Never instigate. Never, not once. But if you start throwing rocks, I throw back. I am definitely not Jesus. But even Jesus would have a hard time restraining himself over these numbers: 3/14/2000 $64, 8/5/2002 $1.05 |
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Subject:RE: waynegee, you totally missed the boat on that one!
Reply by: Jacose
Date:8/5/2002 6:55:02 PM
yeah and Why am I getting criticized....screw you wayneegeezer I never tried to cause a fight.. I live here, in USA. I made myself perfectly clear. you didnt listen. Lets get off it. |
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Subject:RE: waynegee, you totally missed the boat on that one!
Reply by: waynegee
Date:8/5/2002 7:49:35 PM
Jacose, No, I'm not picking on you nor am I criticizing you but you did not make yourself perfectly clear. I don't know what you were trying to say but if you have a valid point, based off of what my post ACTUALLY says, I'd love to hear it. If not, that's cool too. But I really have NO idea what your point was nor do I think you understood my point. W- |
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Subject:RE: waynegee, you totally missed the boat on that one!
Reply by: DataCowboy
Date:8/7/2002 12:11:44 AM
$64 -> 1.0whatever is what happens when the investment sheep think you are an "internet" company and buy up your stock like mad. Then, of course, they realize 1) most internet companies are bad investments and 2) the only major thing you have in common with internet companies is a hard time turning a profit Professional audio software is a brutal market profitwise. Just ask Opcode. Hex |