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Subject:REWIRE for those that don't know
Posted by: groovewerx
Date:7/31/2002 9:31:47 AM
for my setup it works like so: 1. i build a beat in rebirth 2. then compose a rhythm in reason 3. blend a few samples from unity 4. add vox recorded in sonar 5. mix/record all elements individually and/or in groups w/unlimited fx and automation + top it off with midi sequencing of triton, karma, mpc and various sound mods in cubase. imagine having to do all that while keeping track of your mixing one app at a time... integrating acid would be the perfect addition to my work style. here's propellerheads' description: The Functionality A typical application supplying audio via ReWire would be a software synthesizer or a multimedia authoring application with audio output. Examples of an application receiving audio would be a software audio mixer, processor or recorder. Audio Streaming ReWire allows up to 64 channels of real-time audio to be transferred from one application to another. In the case of ReBirth and Cubase this allows you to separate practically all ReBirth instruments in VST. You can hence process instruments individually with effects, filters etc. The audio in ReWire is of extremely high quality. The system can handle practically any sample rate and floating-point arithmetics provide extremely high bit resolution. Sample Accurate Synchronization ReWire handles all synchronization issues between the devices. Once the applications have detected each other (which happens automatically) they are in complete, sample accurate, glitch free sync. There are no settings to make and no parameters to worry about. Common Transport Functionality ReWire also provides common transport functionality for all ReWire applications in the system. This means that you can Play, Stop, Rewind etc. in any of the applications and they will all locate to the same position. Instantly and correctly. Again, there are no settings to worry about – it just works! ReWire is Free Technology! ReWire is a piece of technology that Propellerhead Software provides free of charge to software manufacturers all over the world. This is done in the faith that what is good for the industry as a whole is good for us as well. http://www.propellerheads.se/index.php3 |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those that don't know
Reply by: Maruuk
Date:7/31/2002 10:42:51 AM
Bravo groovewerx! You've laid bare the absurdity of any publisher ignoring ReWire! And what would its license have cost SoFo? Absolutely nothing! Dozens of users in this forum alone have correctly identified it as a must-have function for Acid to be competitive. Won't-have means Acid ain't. A monumental blunder on the part of the SoFo product design team. And the unemployment line in Madison, WI just got a little longer... |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those that don't know
Reply by: Jacose
Date:7/31/2002 7:38:56 PM
well, I think that is simply awesome!!! But I really think that the upgrades they put into Acid 4 had to come first! now this is on my (Acid must do this) list for number 4.5 or 5..... thanks for enlightening me on this. BTW maruuk, Sofo has not IGNORED rewire, its just a little later on the chain. |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those that don't know
Reply by: Maruuk
Date:7/31/2002 8:00:19 PM
I wouldn't rule out SoFo coming in with their own proprietary standard for hooking up apps. That would be ok for inhouse apps like Vegas Video, but it's hard to imagine they have the clout to get other pubs to adopt it on top of ReWire. The beauty of ReWire would have been to leave Acid alone, simple and easy, and let other apps add the features required by the user as necessary. The clock is really ticking on this, I don't believe SoFo has the luxury of adding connectivity at some vague future date. This was that date. |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those that don't know
Reply by: Jacose
Date:7/31/2002 8:02:26 PM
dont mean to be a jerk, but thanks for the truly "nice" post. you are certainly heard alot better this way... Im not really into rewire and other stuff that syncs programs, I would actually rather have a simple, yet all-in one solution, but by the sounds of Rewire, It seems pretty simple, It detects things automatically... pretty nice. |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those that don't know
Reply by: Maruuk
Date:7/31/2002 8:26:34 PM
Yeah, and it'll come, but I ain't holding my breath. I agree that Sonar is a less happy environment than Acid, and even buggier, but syncing an Acid looper to Reason is huge. One button pristine co-renders are awesome. |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those that don't know
Reply by: groovewerx
Date:8/2/2002 12:16:57 PM
i've said it before and i'm saying it again: "there is no all-in-one program that can do well what all programs do..." i believe md, spirit, or maruuk said it best: "acid is one of many tools at my fingertips..." like a universal battery pack, acid rewired would be nice but is not absolutly necessary although i would prefer to have the option available as needed. sofo not including rewire is like roland leaving midi out of their next synth. i will not be buying acid4 because i already have an acid program that i cannot seamlessly integrate into my setup. i'll just use what i've got until they build what i need. |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those that don't know
Reply by: Maruuk
Date:8/2/2002 3:05:20 PM
Well said, groove. There is a growing consensus that folks really LIKE the unique and wonderful sounds that emit from a variety of individual apps and their imbedded goodies and capabilities. Each app presents it's own variety of creative strategies that take you to new musical places. A whole stack of VSTi's can't do that for you. Users just want to hook 'em up anyway they want without restriction and render it all at the touch of a button--no external hardware required. I've never seen SoFo as defensive and peevish about this issue--that tells us that they know they blew it, and will quickly make amends to save face. I'll be the first to congratulate them for entering the community of pro apps. You're almost home, SoFo--suck it up and go the last mile for your paying customers! |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those that don't know
Reply by: stakeoutstudios
Date:8/3/2002 3:38:18 AM
With any luck, when Vegas 4 comes out, it will be timed with a release of ACID that supports rewire. Realistically, both Vegas and ACID have to support rewire in order to have the connectivity people hope for, that means two software updates... Maybe that's where this is headed? It's probably too much to debug and test two concurrent software releases, and I think that the new features such as VSTi did deserve priority. If they popped rewire into ACID now, it'd be useful indeed, but not for users of vegas because vegas doesn't support rewire... I am really pleased that ACID truly becomes an incredible creation tool with the addition of VSTi's. It's gonna be a beutiful program to work with. :o) Jason |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those that don't know
Reply by: pwppch
Date:8/3/2002 10:35:49 AM
>I've never seen SoFo as defensive and peevish about this issue--that tells us that they know they blew it, and will quickly make amends to save face. < What a load of <deleted>! Who from SF has EVER said anything remotely like this!!! I assure you we are not going to quickly make amends for anything. We are very proud of what ACID 4 brings to the ACID community. There are a lot of things we'd still like to do, and we will in a future version. <deleted> Peter |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those that don't know
Reply by: Maruuk
Date:8/3/2002 3:31:19 PM
>>I've never seen SoFo as defensive and peevish about this issue (lack of ReWire)--that tells us that they know they blew it, and will quickly make amends to save face. >What a load of crap! Who from SF has EVER said anything remotely like this!!!< Actually, you SoFo guys have been totally peevish and defensive about this issue from the beginning of the announcement, and this latest foul-mouthed and abusive spew from you is the nail in your coffin! Sounds like the boardrooms at SoFo are ringing with calls for the heads of the tech dufuses who couldn't get ReWire out in time for the Christmas sales rush. These are the statements of very unhappy people here, boys and girls. >I assure you we are not going to quickly make amends for anything. We are very proud of what ACID 4 brings to the ACID community. You are clueless.< Perfect. 100% pure peevish and defensive (and personally abusive and insulting, the very thing SoFo claims to want to ban from the forum!). Plus they seem genuinely proud that they are refusing to provide paying customers with a key professional feature in a timely manner. Yikes! I don't think I've seen anybody hang themselves in public so totally since Admiral Dimbulb asked "Why am I here?" in the Vice Presidential debate. Clueless, eh? Then how did I manage to call the announcement date of 4.0 to within 7 days back in October!? You guys are just livid that I occasionally remind folks of the Big Layoff. And that you have actual competitors. And that many pro users are extremely disappointed by the lack of ReWire in 4.0 to the point where they may have to move on, product-wise. If reality bites you guys that bad, maybe you should consider an easier, less competitive software market, like custom cellphone ringer tones. No ReWire required! |
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Subject:Help me out here...
Reply by: gbat
Date:8/3/2002 3:33:41 PM
So, let me see if I got this straight. Rewire joins all participating applications into one giant program that can be controlled at the same time. All of the applications are up and running and functioning simultaneously, with all their plugs and synths and eq's and envelopes and midi. Am I missing something or is this a CPU nightmare? What computer can handle this kinda load? Talk about the influx of support tickets to the various apps support teams. "Why does Sonar freeze when it's running with all the other apps in Rewire?" "Fruity slows down when only 5 other apps are added!" I don't blame SF for staying outa this mess. I'd wait until CPU's were up to 10 ghz and hard drives could give ya 100 mb/s steady throughport. |
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Subject:RE: Help me out here...
Reply by: Maruuk
Date:8/3/2002 3:44:36 PM
gbat--Good point that deserves a thoughtful answer. Generally, you'd only run two apps at once. And I've got a lousy Athlon 1G, but Reason, for instance, often runs mucho tracks for me at 10-15% CPU capacity. It's very efficient. Pre-4.0 Acid is not so efficient, but we'll see how the new optimized engine is in 4.0, probably better. So Acid may add another 40% capacity to an average Joe-type CPU, not a dealbreaker. You get into Celerons or Durons or 500mz CPU's and all bets are off. But 1G and higher and you're generally going to be okay, assuming the rest of your setup is solid. |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those that don't know
Reply by: pwppch
Date:8/3/2002 3:54:57 PM
Who is livid? You just need to get your facts staight. What does the Big Layoff have to do with anything? You have never answered that when I asked in the past. I get mad personally when people misrepresent facts in order to make a point. You imply you have a deep understanding and working knowlege of how all things are done when in fact you are only guessing. If guessing a release date/announcement with in 7 days is some kind of badge of honor to wear, go for it. I don't know what it proves though. I stand by what I said. Call this a submission or whatever your want. You don't know what you are talking about. If you consider this a persoanl attack or being peevish, so be it. It is however Peter Haller saying this, not Sonic Foundry. Peter |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those that don't know
Reply by: pwppch
Date:8/3/2002 7:20:06 PM
Who says I can't have an opinion and voice it. You paid for the product, not my tolerance of you or what you have to say. I come to these forums in my spare time to help users and see what the mind set and needs of the users are. I believe that I am generally very helpful and supportive of our users. However, this doesn't mean I can't complain to you or anybody else here if I don't agree with them or they are wrong. I don't speak for Sonic Foundry. I have said this before. I use my Sonic moniker so that users know to whom they are conversing with. I never use an alias. Most know me here and most know me to be very tolerant. I haven't had a problem with a user until you came along. Your price of admission lets you say what you want. It doesn't buy my silence or willingness to ignore your misleading statements and lack of facts. Peter |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those that don't know
Reply by: Maruuk
Date:8/3/2002 7:48:44 PM
<Who says I can't have an opinion and voice it.> If Sonic Foundry thinks it's good business to have their employees come in here and stalk and harass paying customers, I don't really need to say any more about SoFo, do I? <You paid for the product, not my tolerance of you or what you have to say.> Peter, please, you're issuing repeated tirades against a forum guest--do you really think it's appropriate for a Sonic Foundry employee to be getting so vindictively personal with a customer? To quote an another employee in here: "The PERSONAL attacks have got to stop." Once again, I rest my case. <However, this doesn't mean I can't complain to you or anybody else here if I don't agree with them or they are wrong.> Peter, I really feel you're going to just have to let this go. You're not coming off well at all. Stick to fixing rev bugs. <I don't speak for Sonic Foundry. I have said this before. I use my Sonic moniker so that users know to whom they are conversing with.> Any employee represents the company in a public forum. Don't kid yourself that your superiors don't care how you behave in here. <I haven't had a problem with a user until you came along. Your price of admission lets you say what you want. It doesn't buy my silence or willingness to ignore your misleading statements and lack of facts.> Good. Let's keep it that way. No one's asking you to be silent, and in fact, we all welcome your knowledge and information. But in the future if you disagree with a customer, good, just correct them once and move on to helping folks sort out 4.0. Do we understand each other? |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those that don't know
Reply by: pwppch
Date:8/3/2002 8:01:30 PM
Nothing more can be said. I will drop it. Peter |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those that don't know
Reply by: Jacose
Date:8/3/2002 10:07:55 PM
its the only smart thing to do with someone whos always right! |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those that don't know
Reply by: Maruuk
Date:8/5/2002 4:15:13 PM
jacose--Naw, I'm not always right. But do numbers lie? 3/14/2000 $64, 8/5/2002 $1.05 |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those that don't know
Reply by: MyST
Date:8/6/2002 3:29:30 AM
Those numbers should be quoted in context though. The tech industry as a whole could be summed up with similar results. Investing in Nortel Networks used to be a rock solid investment, not anymore. ¢¢ |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those that don't know
Reply by: Spirit
Date:8/6/2002 9:31:53 AM
Let's not talk SoFo down. We do eventually want AcidPro5 / SF7 / VV4 right ? |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those that don't know
Reply by: MyST
Date:8/6/2002 9:47:40 AM
I'm not worried about SoFo, their products are solid! There will always be people who would do things differently, and they should be allowed to express their opinion. The problem (to me) is when it stops being constructive critcism, and becomes personal. I think the message about Rewire has been sent enough times to be noticed, maybe we can move on. ¢¢ |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those that don't know
Reply by: justifiedalive
Date:8/6/2002 11:55:42 AM
I personally do not believe that sonicPCH is a real employee. No one working for a company would come into a forum and debate petty issues like this. Where's that little SF logo that shows he is really an employee? |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those that don't know
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:8/6/2002 12:04:53 PM
Peter's the real deal. I've been contributing for a while now. His knowledge is extensive. Believe he's a programmer for SoFo, but I'm not sure. Iacobus |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those that don't know
Reply by: Maruuk
Date:8/6/2002 3:34:32 PM
Whatever he is, we need to all buy the upgrade to 4.0 to keep him employed. And dare I say it, keep Acid supported as a product. I'm dead serious about this--BUY 4.0 IF YOU WANT TO SEE YOU'RE PRODUCT ALIVE AGAIN! The upgrade you buy today may mean another programmer eats tomorrow, and has the strength to implement ReWire. Want to know why we got an anemic feature set in 4.0? The numbers tell the tale: 1.02 |
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Subject:RE: REWIRE for those that don't know
Reply by: pwppch
Date:8/6/2002 4:59:17 PM
I am a real employee. I am just more vocal then the rest of the dev team and hate false information and speculation, so I say what I want to. MacMoney and CharlesDM can vouch for me....<g>. Peter |