Acid 4.0 new features -ACID Product Family - MAGIX Community Forums Archive

ACID Product Family

Subject:Acid 4.0 new features Posted by: Ted_H Date:7/29/2002 4:35:13 PM Check it out: New in ACID PRO 4.0 -Plug-In effects automation -ASIO driver support -5.1 surround mixing -MIDI piano roll editing -Yamaha OPT support -VSTi support -Alternate time signatures -Master, auxiliary, and effects bus tracks -MIDI event list editing and step recording Ted
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: jdg Date:7/29/2002 4:37:52 PM wow.. i can't wait to see this.. i think that acid will use VSTi instead of DXi will swing it in favor over sonar. fun fun fun... !!!!!
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Maruuk Date:7/29/2002 4:38:11 PM WHAT, NO REWIRE??? Shame shame...huge mistake.
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: klyon Date:7/29/2002 5:21:22 PM I agree. As someone with lots of experience with Cubase (a bug-infested neighborhood if there ever was one) and Reason (which always works flawlessly) I would prefer Rewire with Reason to any VST implementation, hands down.
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Tech44 Date:7/29/2002 6:22:05 PM So what we're saying is that Fruityloops + ACID = Ultimate Joy, then. :) Can't wait... cheers, SoFo! Asylus
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: kraznet Date:7/29/2002 6:56:11 PM Problem is ...I believe Rewire needs to be licenced from Propellerheads...Anyway for me VSTi and Asio along with the new editors and the alternative time sigs will make me very happy...for now :-) Kraznet
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: SHTUNOT Date:7/29/2002 7:16:24 PM I never thought that asio or even VSTi support would be added to acid. Plus NO rewire? Why didn't you guys just implement DXi support instead of vsti? Its the same thing but now you've introduced VST crap into acid...Can we now use VST audio plugins as well in acid? I never thought I'd see the day. So instead of WDM driver support you guys side with steinberg and use asio? Again,why no rewire? Is the plugin automation just for VST or DX or BOTH? It better at least be DX8! Again, why asio support over WDM? [weird]
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Maruuk Date:7/29/2002 7:27:59 PM So Acid will now have about 1/3 the features of Sonar or Cubase. Well, that's 1/3 beter than it was before but... Somebody keeps saying "It can't have ReWire because you have to license it from Steinberg!" Well, that wasn't an impediment to MOTU, Emagic, Cakewalk and all the other publishers who went ReWire--what's so dang special about SF??? To me, this is a gaping hole in their product that all the VSTi's in the world can't fill.
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: kraznet Date:7/29/2002 7:53:35 PM I guess it depends on what perspective your coming from Shutnot. I mean if someone is using Sonar they already have "Acid type" looping integrated so i would have thought there was less reason to use Acid anyway (i may be wrong)I can see what your saying with regard to using WDM/Direct X but there are a whole lot of Logic/Cubase users out there who will be very happy to open up there VSTi's within Acid 4 and at least it means we won't have to use some kind of 3rd party "wrapper" like Sonar does (although DXi versions of alot of VSTi's are emerging).Also with my Hammerfall/Asio setup i can get 1.5 ms latency so it can't be that bad.As far as Rewire goes it would be useful if not cucial addition for many users.But as i said ,personally the new features will be very welcome for me.. Kraznet
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Jessariah Date:7/29/2002 8:56:37 PM I use Sonar as my main tracking/mixing app, but I still use Acid a lot. Sonar works okay, but it doesn't handle loops as "naturally" as Acid does when it comes to stretching/pitch shifting.
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Tocque_Deville Date:7/29/2002 10:34:22 PM I used Sonar until recently (Cubase SX) and I still did all my loops in Acid first. I found the looping process in Sonar to be painful. So I would just build my loop tracks in Acid and transfer them to Sonar. I now do the same with SX. And with SX you can import all your loops at once. But the real solution is to Rewire Acid and SX or whatever and run Acid as a module. But it looks like SF completely DROPPED that ball. Bummer
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: neon_dj Date:7/30/2002 3:13:25 AM I'm agree with Asylus , Aicd 4.0 + Fruity Loops 3.55 = The best tool to make music!!!!!!! I'm very heppy!!!!! Acid 4 has become!!!!!!! yhuuuu!!!!!
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Spirit Date:7/30/2002 3:15:42 AM Well I'm extremely happy with the specs. VSTi is a more popular and versatile standard than Dxi, and ASIO is way more useful than Rewire. I think SoFo has hit the right target market with the right features. This is of course just my feelings - I know many people wanted Rewire. But I think the specs look absolutely brilliant ! It's everything I wanted.
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: neon_dj Date:7/30/2002 3:27:23 AM yeah!
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Jessariah Date:7/30/2002 6:57:46 AM So... WHERE IS IT?
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: punchdrunkfunk Date:7/30/2002 8:03:54 AM WOW!!! Sonic Foundry has always impressed me-and this continues the trend. I have always advocated Acid as an excellent multitrack recorder (with v3), and now you have added everything I thought was missing - FX automation and VSTi. Perfect! Keep it Up. -Scott
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: MacMoney Date:7/30/2002 8:31:04 AM Acid 4.0 Beta, Baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! George
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Mus Date:7/30/2002 9:08:35 AM > I have always advocated Acid as an excellent multitrack recorder (with v3) I'm not sure many rated it as such, since I didn't think it was designed for disk streaming of long Audio tracks. I'll reserve judgement until we see the beta and I get my 2nd PC (P4 2Ghz to replace a P2 533Mhz). It also depends on how comprehensive the midi implementation is. Oh, and when is the beta due? M
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Mus Date:7/30/2002 9:16:14 AM Oh and thanks for the Alternate time sigs - a few of us were asking for that one!
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Jacose Date:7/30/2002 9:27:34 AM everything except the OPT thing is just what I wanted (only caus eI dont even know what the heck OPT is!!)
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Ted_H Date:7/30/2002 10:17:12 AM The beta should be available within a couple weeks. Ted
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Mus Date:7/30/2002 10:57:04 AM Great! Just in time for when I'm back off holiday and get my new PC. Jacose, OPT is Open Plug-in Technology. Yamaha introduced this new standard so that Sequencers can access Plug-Ins for editing synths etc... Some editors have started to appear. So far SF and Cakewalk Sonar 2 have adopted the standard from the client side. Not sure about any other sequencer manufacturers. M
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Maruuk Date:7/30/2002 12:47:23 PM Ok, so we still have no real audio multitrack, no included synths and samplers, no ReWire, no DXi, and no way at all to co-render with any other app in the known universe that DOES have all these things. Guess the King of SoFo, confronted by the fact that the peasants were starving for professional features, did some more snuff, waved his white glove and pronounced: "Let them eat Cakewalk!" The rest is history.
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Jessariah Date:7/30/2002 1:05:08 PM Maybe the complainers have a point, so I'll throw my demands into the mix: Once SoFo has made Acid look like Cool Edit, work like Cubase, Sonar & Fruity Loops simultaneously and supports DXi, Rewire, multi-track recording, video editing, multi-waves per track, "Symphony Mode" (that's when you play one note on a keyboard and Acid pulls it in and renders out a 40-piece orchestral arrangement) AND can successfully remove the vocals from a song...then I would like to see some HTML coding support and some graphic editing tools that rival PhotoShop. If it could check my email, too, that would be nice...but I don't want to push it.
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Ted_H Date:7/30/2002 2:41:52 PM Maruuk, we're not going for the all-in-one solution app. We have one product for creating, one for multitrack recording, and one for editing. Not everybody needs or wants all three. Ted
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: merlyn60 Date:7/30/2002 2:45:31 PM I would like to know how detailed the midi implementation is. I mean, is it going to be comprehensive enough to run outboard synths? SoFO....more info please!!! Just saying that Acid 4.0 has a piano roll doesn't cut it!! Merlyn
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Ted_H Date:7/30/2002 2:57:21 PM "...is it going to be comprehensive enough to run outboard synths?" Yes. It's a fully functional MIDI app now. Ted
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: merlyn60 Date:7/30/2002 3:12:06 PM Thanks for the quick reply. Look forward to seeing it in action. Merlyn
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: ATP Date:7/30/2002 3:41:43 PM looking great!! i didn't think half of these features would be implemented, honestly. :) but the lack of Rewire support is not so fantastic. with ACID 4 i will still be needing Cubase in order to use Reason as a slave. or is there a way to sync ACID with Cubase properly now?
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Maruuk Date:7/30/2002 4:52:06 PM Yo Ted, I appreciate that Acid has now conceded broad integration, audio multitracking, interconnectivity and imbedded softsynths to your competitors and you've spread some, only some, of these features amongst your various other apps. And these in-house SoFo apps speak to each other...how??? I can render ganged multi-app output from them...how??? Oh, I can't? SoFo doesn't even have their own intra-mural ReWire clone to allow your own apps to sync up? Midi routing??? That's a bad joke, right? And you call this scattering of critical pro functions across incommunicable apps A FEATURE??? Don't tell Steinberg and Cakewalk about this product strategy...I'm sure they'll be all over it in no time...
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Jacose Date:7/30/2002 4:55:27 PM ok, so you cant even include the ability to overdub record in the same track?? lol ;)
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Jacose Date:7/30/2002 4:58:40 PM Yo Ted, I appreciate that Acid has now conceded broad integration, audio multitracking, interconnectivity and imbedded softsynths to your competitors and you've spread some, only some, of these features amongst your various other apps. And these in-house SoFo apps speak to each other...how??? I can render ganged multi-app output from them...how??? Oh, I can't? SoFo doesn't even have their own intra-mural ReWire clone to allow your own apps to sync up? Midi routing??? That's a bad joke, right? And you call this scattering of critical pro functions across incommunicable apps A FEATURE??? Don't tell Steinberg and Cakewalk about this product strategy...I'm sure they'll be all over it in no time... AMEN!!! <lnk>http://www.sonicfoundry.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=112238&Replies=49&Page=1
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: DaSoundGuy Date:7/30/2002 5:06:06 PM "...we're not going for the all-in-one solution app. We have one product for creating, one for multitrack recording, and one for editing. Not everybody needs or wants all three." I would say from the development of Vegas Audio into Video, that eventually your best long term strategy is to merge the audio part of Vegas with what you're incorporating in Acid. Short term, you can probably be more profitable selling both. Apart from the inability of placing more than one event type per track, how is Acid not a multitrack? But are you also implying that we might look forward to "MIDI Forge"? ;) I disagree that multitrack recording not part of the creative process. And besides, ultimately, and this is really why I'm so excited about the Acid 4, content creators want an app where digital audio has the same tempo flexibility as MIDI, where we don't have to commit to a specific tempo before recording audio. Potentially audio could be transposed into the same editing domain as MIDI. A German company already has a product that does this. I hope you're refining your time stretching algorythms: we're going to need good ones for this! Looking forward to the evolution, DSG
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Spirit Date:7/30/2002 6:18:33 PM Depending on how good the ASIO spec is you could render outboard synths and apps using that - just like the way its currently possible in VST. If ASIO is only "one-way" like in Fruity then it won't be possible. We'll just have to wait and see. And come on - stop slagging off this app before you've even seen it. There are so many good things that I bet most people thought would never be included. I suspect that some people are simply never happy about anything. Sheesh !
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Jacose Date:7/30/2002 6:53:09 PM I dont think anyones slagging it... But in the future, better, yet simple audio features are nessecasry for the proper evolution of this product, IMHO.
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Jacose Date:7/30/2002 6:55:01 PM ok, thats not even funny, I dont think ANYONE wants Acid to be Cubase, that is the point....
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Jessariah Date:7/30/2002 7:33:09 PM I wonder how some of you have managed with Acid 3 for the past year or so? Seems that Acid 4 has several improvements over Acid 3, but apparently it's not even close to being acceptable to you. So don't buy it. Do your looping in whatever app out there is head and shoulders over Acid. Guess what? I don't use Rewire, DXi, ASIO, OPT or VSTi. I DO own Vegas and Sonar, but I have no need or desire to link them up. I've got my system of doing things, you've got yours. So why should I pay an extra hundred bucks for all the features you want that I don't need? I may have four or five features that I want that you might think are unnecessary. Don't get the idea that the way SOME people set up their boxes or how SOME companies set up their software is the absolute end-all. No matter what an app offers or doesn't, chances are you're gonna have to have some work around of some kind in some way shape or form. I honestly can't believe how completely out of sorts some of the people in these threads are over a "NEW FEATURE ANNOUNCEMENT!" Haven't even laid hands on the thing, and already it's a loser! They might as well toss it and keep us waiting another year for 5.0. That would be better, wouldn't it? I can't wait to take the Beta for a spin. If I think it sucks, I won't buy it. I bet I do buy it, though. And I bet all of you do, as well.
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: DJ_Don Date:7/30/2002 7:58:18 PM Hi All This is my first post on this forum, but I have been lurking in it for months. I must say, that when I saw the new features in 4.0, I was jumping for joy. I have been hoping and praying that they would put an integrated MIDI sequencer into this program, and now they have. Everyone here is soooooo quick to point out all the things they don't have, they haven't looked at the positive. If you didn't already use Acid, you wouldn't care about the upgrade. But since you feel so strongly about what should and should not be in it, you obvoiusly value this software (as do I). My point? Be happy with what they've done, or don't buy it. Plain and simple. Rewire is not the Second Coming, so I'm sure you will all find ways to be productive with 4.0 if you choose to get it. There is not one single piece of software on the market (music related or otherwise) that pleases 100% of its users 100% of the time. Let's wait and see what happens--we've waited this long, a couple more weeks to try it out won't kill us. Cheers to the folks at SoFo--they make great, intuitive software, and I hope they keep up the good work. Peace.
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Darmok Date:7/30/2002 8:05:07 PM Yes, but VSTi development by 3rd party vendors is huge. Cliff
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Jacose Date:7/30/2002 8:45:52 PM Maruuk, we're not going for the all-in-one solution app. We have one product for creating, one for multitrack recording, and one for editing. Not everybody needs or wants all three. But no connection for the first and second??? I mean, I think its great having a seperate Editing program. Its pretty integrated anyway, right clik acess.... But the multitrack and lops facets need to be more integrated.
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Jacose Date:7/30/2002 8:47:33 PM Haven't even laid hands on the thing, and already it's a loser! They might as well toss it and keep us waiting another year for 5.0. ummm... did you hear ME say it was a loser??? I have been suggesting this Overdub thing forever, and I think the new release of ACID is Awesome!!!>!> toss it,foo!
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Jessariah Date:7/30/2002 9:10:36 PM My post happened to come right after yours, Jacose. I wasn't refering to you, but rather the handful of people who seem to think the electronic music world is about to end.
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Maruuk Date:7/31/2002 12:09:05 AM The electronic world of Acid as a competitive, viable pro tool has ended. Doesn't mean some people won't continue to use it, it has a use as much as a '69 Volkswagen bus still has a use. I still use Notepad. I'm talking about success in the marketplace. Without that, support will end and SoFo will move on. Or out. This is a long term view, one that new users should consider before committing to one app over another. As quickly as the interface of Acid has you up and running, just as quickly the steel door slams shut on the creative opportunities that are offered by all the Acid-compatible competitors. They had a shot, and blew it. This will definitely impact the business.
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Spirit Date:7/31/2002 12:18:43 AM Because it doesn't have Rewire ?!!! You joke surely.
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: MacMoney Date:7/31/2002 2:38:02 AM >They had a shot, and blew it. This will definitely impact the business. WHAT?????? George Ware
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Lava Date:7/31/2002 3:12:37 AM That's funny. I have lurked on this forum for months now, and finally couldn't stand it anymore and had to register just to respond to Maruuk's comments. I have to put my vote in as someone who has never ever had a need to use Rewire at all, and don't anticipate ever using it. ACID 4 will still be huge without it.
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Jacose Date:7/31/2002 8:30:40 AM sorry m8 ;)
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Jacose Date:7/31/2002 8:31:57 AM They had a shot, and blew it. This will definitely impact the business. Ummmmmm.... wow.
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Maruuk Date:7/31/2002 11:21:04 AM Try to separate out Acid in the highly competitive, dog-eat-dog marketplace from Acid, the user-friendly looping wonder. The looping wonder was amazing. Unique. Today, it's no longer unique, yet still has the simplest, most elegant interface. Its limitations relative to competitors are most apparent to pros, least to the casual looping hobbyist. It will always have a hardcore loyal fan base like Amigas and Macs, MG's and the Atari VCS. SoFo laid off a bunch of people last year--they're struggling to run lean and mean. Margins in this business suck. The competition is cutthroat. Piracy is rampant. Guys buy software, copy it, then re-sell it on eBay. It hurts the whole field, part of the bottom line. Sound Forge is the only SoFo product to dominate the market--as good as Vegas Video is, it's in a brutal market with tons of good $100 video editors, and it's muddled its purpose by combining serious audio and video editing. Acid has been hit hard by Cakewalk and other pubs offering full Acid-compatibility and vastly more features. Acid compatible CD's are coming from everywhere now, SoFo has no license arrangements or proprietary controls on this software the way game companies do on platform software. Acid needed to achieve one of two things this time around to get back in the game: evolve to a true standalone with real multitrack audio and imbedded free synths and samplers with complete midi features...or...stay as limited and insular as they are, but CONNECT via ReWire to apps that have true multitrack audio, great synths, samplers, notation, etc. SoFo elected to do neither--they gave us a bunch of junk nobody was even asking for like goofy time-signature tricks and Yamaha hardware control (at a time when hardware is dying faster than Michael Jackson's career) plus pitched us a few peanuts like slightly-less-than-minimal midi editing and VST. This leaves Acid in severe product limbo, the Horse Latitudes of music apps. Armstrong invented modern radio, but Sarnoff co-opted it with better marketing and features. Maybe Acid, Beta vcr's and MTBE will get honorable mentions in Ken Burns' 2011 documentary "Great Failed Technology"--too bad you can't take that to the bank.
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Spirit Date:7/31/2002 11:33:10 AM Your obsession with Rewire is unhealthy and getting quite troll-like. SoFo aren't going to crash and burn because they didn't put in your pet feature. I think AcidPro4 is shaping up as a huge market victory. Outside of this forum you'll find the Rewire issue hardly rates a mention - but the brilliant feature pack of MIDI editing, VSTi capability and ASIO sure does !
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Maruuk Date:7/31/2002 11:43:44 AM It's "BRILLIANT" to add minimum midi editing YEARS behind all their competition? It's "BRILLIANT" to add VSTi YEARS behind all their competition, and offer no VST PLUG-INS??? It's "BRILLIANT" to hand us useless crap like trick time-signatures and Yamaha hardware control that literally NO ONE was asking for??? And it's "BRILLIANT" to spread out looping, audio multitracking and advanced audio editing over multiple SoFo apps, yet offer absolutely no way for those in-house apps to talk to each other??? No co-rendering whatesoever??? Yeah, it's all about as "BRILLIANT" as the INS sending those visa extentions to dead Al Qaeda terrorists. Is ReWire my pet feature? Am I alone? Read the forum, chump. There is a major riot of protest going on over this outrage of omission! Take heed, SoFo--ReWire or perish!
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: DaSoundGuy Date:7/31/2002 12:51:23 PM Take heed, SoFo--ReWire or perish!<\b> Yo gotta be kidding... DSG
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Iacobus Date:7/31/2002 1:18:28 PM Oh. My. Dear. God. WTH happened since I was last here? The whole ReWire thing: I remember someone from SoFo (Peter?) stating that Propellerheads was very interested in giving SoFo a license to use ReWire in ACID. However, due to the time constraint and the list of new features that are in the new version, it just couldn't be done at the moment. There just wasn't enough time. Implementing full MIDI, automatable envelopes, ASIO, VSTi, an even better algorithm, etc. is quite a task in itself on top of debugging it all. One calling ACID Pro a toy is akin to shooting oneself in the foot. One just has no credibility in my book. That's an insult to those at SoFo who've worked hard to give the music community (amongst other industries) such a wonderful app. I may seem like a SoFo whore, because I basically am. They've earned my allegiance a long time ago. There's a reason for that. Actually, there's a few reasons, one being I finally can create projects that stay true to my original vision. And I've yet to see a product that's as intuitive as theirs. It simply does not get in the way of my creative flow. As far as I'm concerned, it's the other companies that should take their cue from SoFo, not the other way around. And I actually get sad when I see users coming here and ripping apart the app with no justification whatsoever. This is a peer-to-peer support forum, not a whining session. SoFo does not have to come here and read posts, nor are they obligated to. It was quite nice of them just to create a forum where other users can come together and talk. I come here to try to help others who might have a question about ACID and sometimes be able to dole out a tip or two. How can it be a true community otherwise? If one wants to see something in ACID, let Sonic Foundry know. It's not like SoFo can read one's mind. Over and out for now, Iacobus
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: pwppch Date:7/31/2002 2:05:56 PM I generally don't like to flame users on the forum, but Maruuk, you are the exception. You REALLY need to get your technology house in order. ReWire is used by a minority of users. I am not saying it is a bad or useless technology, but it has its limitation. OPT is MUCH more than controlling external synths. Do your homework before you make blanket statements that are inaccurate. Peter
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: nlamartina Date:7/31/2002 2:43:55 PM I've said it once before, and I'll say it again Maruuk... You are a dick. All of a month ago, you wanted to be in here acting like everyone's little friend and slap the behind of the hype machine as you churned out all your glorious optimism. Now the new feature list is out, and despite the fact that it's a substantial upgrade, one feature you wanted is omitted. And now, look out everyone, Maruuk didn't get his way, so he's going to bitch and complain like a child. You are absolutely unbelievable. It's pathetic how fast you went from SoFo cheerleader to backbiter. You're not happy with using the VMR to hook stuff up? How about telling us WHY for once. I asked you once in the past, and I'll ask you again, what problems are you having with it? Have you actually even tried it? Every time I've ever tried to help you with one of these 'horrid' problems, you never take me up on the offer. Are you more satisfied painting yourself as the victim, rather than getting the "problem" fixed? I use the VMR all the time to sync up DreamStation to Acid and into Sound Forge. It works flawlessly. I've never had a problem with it. So what's your beef? What's not working for you? Explain this to me for once instead of responding with more incessant complaining. Furthermore, what is the point of SoFo adding VST effect support in Acid? It would be literally useless because there are several professional VST/DX wrappers out there that work perfectly. They know this, and therefore it would be redundant to support both VST and DX effects. Same with DXi and VSTi. Instead of redundancy and wasted time, we were given choice. Gee, God forbid. Take your zealotry and your imagined "riot" somewhere else. Either that or just grow up, buck up, and try and see what a phenomenal piece of software this is going to be. No one is making you use Acid. If you think another product will suit your needs, USE IT. Don’t come in here with your bratty, pedantic, "shape up or die" attitude, and expect anyone to listen to you. If you want to bitch about Acid and stroke Cakewalk, then do it somewhere else. If you have useful information that will assist others in using SoFo products, or if you’d like to express your opinions without being derogatory toward both the people of this forum and the SoFo staff, then stay. Whatever you pick, just freaking grow up. - Nick LaMartina
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: gjn Date:7/31/2002 2:45:19 PM i'am happy.... best sonic
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Jacose Date:7/31/2002 2:58:00 PM Maruuk = Moron.. (as far as this rewire crap goes anyway) Look, theres a feature that I have been plugging for along time now and It hasnt gotten put in.. am I dissapointed? A little. But Im not gonna be a "troll" and constantly bitch about it.
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: spesimen Date:7/31/2002 3:05:15 PM >>You're not happy with using the VMR to hook stuff up? >>How about telling us WHY for once. oh, he's not the only one. i've posted threads about this topic last year.. for me, it sends start/stop just fine to reason but the sync never stays locked. i tried in vain for like 6 months to get a solution to the issue but never managed to solve it, despite trying hubi, midi yoke, vmr, and trying other apps besides reason. eventually i switched to using another host app that had rewire for most of my work and now i just occaisionally use acid for looping tasks. it used to be my #1 app though, and acid still has my favorite interface, so it has it's place. i'd prefer to use it far more though.. anyway, even if it midi-linking does stay in sync for some people, midi timing is not sample accurate, and it's kind of absurd to say that an anachronistic 'fake midi' interface would be superior to just putting the samples together.. i respect SoFo's decision to not include it but it does seem strange to me. Rewire users may be a minority but there are certainly more people out there with reason than there are people out there with OPT plugins! Now, considering that OPT plugins look super-badass i'm glad they will support em... for the future they could be very awesome, but for today it still seems like an unusual choice..
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: jsv Date:7/31/2002 3:31:06 PM Thanks Nick and Jacose, nothing written here as ever been so true about Maruuk! If you don't like it don't buy it and stop "poluting" the forum. For me, being able to use HALion in Acid and ASIO support is much more important than Rewire. Thanks SoFo!!!
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Maruuk Date:7/31/2002 5:03:06 PM Yeah yeah the old "America, love it or leave it" Nazi mantra. Attack the individual, kill the messenger when you don't have the brains or facts to make an intelligent counter argument. The uncomfortable fact is, everything I've stated is absolutely true, but you guys just can't swallow the truth about your sacred cow Acid. It either has to be all good, or "kill the infidel". You guys have been reading too much Koran lately. I never said Acid was "bad", just that it's an antiquated and limited product, like your thinking.
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: GP40 Date:7/31/2002 5:41:28 PM Kid, get off your high horse. The world isn't hanging on your every demand, I mean wish. Go spend your money elsewhere.
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: jsv Date:7/31/2002 6:36:30 PM Maruuk, Don't say that I (and other guys) have a way of thinking close to a "nazi mantra", I'm french and had the nazis at home during five years... So obviously you don't know what you're talking about! The point is that we're fed up to hear your complaining! you've noticed that nobody said anything bad about you the first time you complained but after 10 posts saying the same thing, yes we're fed up. It's just as simple as that.
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Maruuk Date:7/31/2002 7:07:27 PM jsv--Are you also speaking for the many users who totally agree with me? I guess not. So the "we" of which you speak must be a group of Nazi-oppressed former OSS agents still cowering in France. Relax, the war's over dude. The freedom America stands for to speak freely without fear of intolerance or repression is alive and well here, as much as you would like to trample it with your elitist, bullying tactics. Why don't you try addressing the facts rather than attacking individuals? Isn't that the Nazi way, to deride and spread hate about people you don't like and attempt to drive them out, or worse? Heil jsv!
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Jacose Date:7/31/2002 7:20:33 PM jsv and anyone who responds to maruuk: DONT BOTHER! he is not open to anything, he is the nazi, just ignore him. He has good Ideas but hes a moron the way he has to try and force them on a software company that he has no say in.
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: jsv Date:7/31/2002 7:42:40 PM "Relax, the war's over dude" I guess nobody from your familly ever died in a war... you can't undestand that of course. (off topic, sorry) "Why don't you try addressing the facts rather than attacking individuals?" coz there's not facts to adress anymore Acid 4.0 has already been realesed (almost). "Isn't that the Nazi way, to deride and spread hate about people you don't like and attempt to drive them out, or worse?" Yes it is but the point is that we're talking about a feature in a software here so please don't compare yourself with the jews during WW2. You just needed to find something to defend yourself and you picked up that nazi thing. You're a moron man, i won't add anything else coz it's not worth it and that's not the aim of this forum.
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Maruuk Date:7/31/2002 7:43:47 PM This is interesting--I post extremely detailed thoughts on the current state of Acid, the impact of the lack of Reason and some other features that really should be there for the user. You can disagree with that, especially if you don't need those things. That's fine, disagreement is what forums are all about. I've said this will hurt the product and SoFo, as competitor's products have many things that Acid does not. It's okay to disagree with that, have a discussion about it, whatever. Then I've said that even those who want Acid to remain simple and straightforward could have their wishes, and the rest of us that need co-app rendering could get what we need with the addition of ReWire. Acid stays simple, the other app fills the bill for any features lacking. And they both sync and co-render. Perfect. So therefore the lack of that is disappointing, and will affect sales among a certain important segment of potential users. But there are those that will disagree, fine. That's why there are forums. In any of these posts, do I attack an individual, curse people, use names, belittle another poster? Absolutely not. So suddenly this attack dog gang spewing hate and intolerance comes after me personally. They use names, insults, it's the same old hate group stuff that's existed down through the centuries. Go back where you came from, shut up, nothing but hate and vindictiveness. If someone attacks me, I will respond, but never strike the first blow. Interesting how people could be so insecure as human beings that instead of discussing differences over a software rev, they have to pick up torches and pickaxes and try to hunt down the poster and drive them out of their safe, little world, all the while spewing the sickest sort of perverse drivel. I pity you sad little forum bullies. And I'm not going anywhere. Kiss my facts.
Subject:Ill say it again Reply by: Jacose Date:7/31/2002 7:48:59 PM ---edited by jacose, Sorry abotu the "fag" stuff I really didnt mean to offend anyone But I will say, get a life, be nice.
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: pwppch Date:7/31/2002 7:51:07 PM You have no facts, just opinions,and, yes, you are entitled to them You know nothing about Sonic Foundry's business or how successful we are. (We are very successful.) You're belief that the lack of ReWire will some how impact us on a large scale is just unfounded. It is an opinion, yet you pound, and pound on it like it is fact. It isn't. The nasty comments do have to stop. We are pretty thick skinned here at SF, so you can call us names and predict our demise. Many have done so in the past: All were wrong. We are stronger and bigger than your other beloved ISVs. We choose technologies based on the greater whole of our user base. Will we do ReWire? Maybe, I don't know when I will get to it. Obviously that leave you out of the fun for right now. Peter
Subject:nice one PCH Reply by: Jacose Date:7/31/2002 7:53:42 PM ....but watch out, you misspelled some stuff, and the letter nazi (marrrook) will be after to you to behead you with his amazing intellect and big words like "homophobic"
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Maruuk Date:7/31/2002 8:12:01 PM I love this: Maruuk: Facts and opinions about SoFo (including their major layoff last year) and 4.0. No ad hominems, no personal insults AT ALL. Crazed Posters intelligent response: You %$#&^ piece of &^%^$# lousy stinking ^&*&^%$# etc etc etc etc. Maruuk: Since you choose to insult me personally in an ad hominem fashion, I now have the right to defend myself in kind. SoFo: <Attacks Maruuk as well--ignores the fact that other posters initiated personal attacks> This is beautiful! I must be saying some things that are very scary truths to both posters and SoFo alike to elicit such a rabid and violent response to mere facts and opinions about a software product. This is a pit of massive insecurity! I must be doing something right, and must be revealing some truths that some people REALLY do not want to hear. Sorry about that. But it's time for you whiners to grow up and face the music without any way to co-render it. Cheers!
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Maruuk Date:7/31/2002 8:15:17 PM jsv--Well, if we're just talking about a software rev as I was, minding my own business, why did you jump in and start personally attacking me? Would you like me to show you the sequence of posts? It's right there in black and white. Physician, heal thyself!
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: jsv Date:7/31/2002 9:03:54 PM now that we all know what kind of reaction to expect from you i sugest to move on.
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Maruuk Date:7/31/2002 9:33:50 PM Now that we all know you as an instigator, yeah, let's move on.
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: jsv Date:7/31/2002 9:36:34 PM finaly you're funny man!
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Maruuk Date:7/31/2002 9:40:43 PM Thank you thank you, now on to the beta!
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: pwppch Date:8/1/2002 12:45:43 AM But no connection for the first and second??? I mean, I think its great having a seperate Editing program. Its pretty integrated anyway, right clik acess.... But the multitrack and lops facets need to be more integrated. << ACID is not about Multitracking. It never was intended to be this. Vegas is our multitrack. ACID is a paint program for Audio and MIDI - a very good and smart one. Existing media is used to build something. You need to edit audio, you load the file into Forge to edit. You need MIDI editing, well since there was no nice simple MIDI Forge, we opted to support OPT to provide MIDI editing. Can there be better integration between ACID and Vegas? Sure! ReWire would be exellent for this problem. It is not like we are not aware of the technologies. We added a lot of new functionality to ACID 4. ReWire just didn't have the demand from the MAJORITY of users like Softsynths, Bus tracks, and Fx automation. Surround mixing, while not important to many audio only type here, it VERY important to our video users and the technology share between ACID and Vegas. Trust me. We DO know what we are doing. We know we can't please everybody all the time. Some people are just more vocal about their beliefs. Besides, if we gave it all to you in ver 4, then what could we add to ver 5 to get you to upgrade?<g> Peter
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: pwppch Date:8/1/2002 12:47:55 AM I would like to know how detailed the midi implementation is. I mean, is it going to be comprehensive enough to run outboard synths? SoFO....more info please!!! Just saying that Acid 4.0 has a piano roll doesn't cut it!! <<< Yes, it will work with all your outboard gear. Big news: ACID lets you edit MIDI and create it from scratch. How much more is there? We support OPT to provide extensible MIDI editing/processing features/functionality. What else do you want to know? What are ppq is? What would make you happy information wise? Peter
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: anon Date:8/1/2002 2:02:33 AM Jesus, is this forum going to need a moderator?
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Darmok Date:8/1/2002 7:03:16 AM "In any of these posts, do I attack an individual, curse people, use names, belittle another poster? Absolutely not." "I pity you sad little forum bullies. And I'm not going anywhere. Kiss my facts." You're a liar, too. Cliff
Subject:RE: I'd love to know more about OPT.... Reply by: stakeoutstudios Date:8/1/2002 10:12:01 AM whatever it is, it sounds cool! I have to say I'm very very excited about the additions to ACID 4. Although it will mean I'll have to buy ACID 4 in addition to vegas to get everything covered, it's gonna be well worth it. The use of VSTi's and MIDI finally means I can use a sampler with SF software, which has made me the happiest man in the world :oP cheers SF, looking 4ward to the beta! Jason
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Jacose Date:8/1/2002 10:24:41 AM OK OK, we know what was up, we know who was a dick, lets let it go Aiiiight?
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Maruuk Date:8/1/2002 11:53:34 AM How would Jesus know, he's the guy who went nuts and threw out all the moneychangers in the temple--I shudder to think how he'd react to 4.0!
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Lava Date:8/1/2002 1:28:43 PM Nah, Jesus didn't see the need for Rewire either!
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Maruuk Date:8/1/2002 9:50:59 PM Jesus would like the time sig tricks, as his personal hit parade of regional tunes would have been in odd time signatures, 7/4 and 9/8. And he would have appreciated the VSTi softsynths as he was adept himself at synthesizing water into wine. But the lack of ReWire would have upset him mightily, as he was a big proponent of hooking everybody up, the humble and the great, into one circuit and rendering them holy. The Apostles were his version of ReWire.
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: DataCowboy Date:8/1/2002 11:27:52 PM Maybe the Props are hiring for a ReWire evangelist. I think we all know a perfect candidate. My scorecard on the new additions: Plug-In effects automat.....Yea, baby ASIO driver support.......Cool 5.1 surround mixing.......Don't care (yet) MIDI piano roll editing...Excellent (fewer ALT-TAB EDIT SAVE ALT-TAB OPEN headaches) Yamaha OPT support........Um, ok, someday I'm sure this will make me happy VSTi support..............Don't care, prefer DXi Alternate time sigs.......Since I've been doing the workaround for 3 years so this doesn't mean as much as it once did but I'm glad it finally made it Master, auxiliary, etc....Nice addition MIDI event list edit......see MIDI comment from above And I would certainly have liked to see ReWire, now that I've got it working nicely in my other apps, but I can live without it for a while (at 5.0 I go ballistic =) ) I'm sure we all score this differently, but the additions are progress, though not always at the speed we all desire. So, now, about those multiple loops points with quantized single keystroke switching... Hex "If they aren't asking for more features, they aren't using the software"
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Maruuk Date:8/1/2002 11:53:07 PM Cowboy--I like DXi too, but there are some nice switch-hitter apps like VSampler that are out in both formats. I can't wait to hook it up to the beta. Also that new Edirol Orchestra is VSTi, sounds real intense and has a fabulous interface that should have been done years ago--a graphic of the layout of the orchestra used to select sections which pop up in lists. Shweet.
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: nlamartina Date:8/2/2002 2:10:23 PM You both have it wrong. Jesus uses DOS, no matter what Steve Jobs says. - Nick
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Maruuk Date:8/2/2002 2:52:05 PM Jesus writes in machine language, it's Cardinal Law who uses DOS.
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: kingsmelly Date:8/6/2002 11:59:10 AM That's just a load of crap ted. Countless users have been awaiting an application that usees the great features of Acid, Vegas, and Sound Forge together like most of your competitors. Ignoring these users to make more money with multiple applications is really dissapointing. Oh well, maybe you'll get it right next year...
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Iacobus Date:8/6/2002 12:30:36 PM Wait. You expect to have ACID, Sound Forge and Vegas all rolled into one and expect it to be actually usable? It'd be an unmitigated mess. Part of SoFo's apps' appeal lies in their interfaces. Very clean and uncluttered yet the power is still there. Each app concentrates on a specific task. (ACID: Looping, Sound Forge: Digital audio editing, Vegas: Multitracking) (SONAR, I must mention, doesn't even have an integrated audio editor.) Please let this thread die. Iacobus
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: aress Date:8/9/2002 10:49:44 AM what about smpte sync? we've been asking for it since V1! what about insert abilty? it would be nice to insert a group of samples into a bar and have the exsisting region automaticaly move... acid rules
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Iacobus Date:8/9/2002 12:00:53 PM "what about insert abilty? it would be nice to insert a group of samples into a bar and have the exsisting region automaticaly move..." You mean ripple edits? ACID Music 3.0 and ACID Pro 3.0 both have it. (CTRL+L is the shortcut.) Iacobus
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: pwppch Date:8/9/2002 9:08:01 PM With out OPT support there would be no MIDI editing. It was crucial to ACID to have MIDI editing. The ACID Piano Roll and List Editor are OPT plugins. No OPT support, no MIDI editing. Peter
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: stakeoutstudios Date:8/10/2002 4:18:36 AM That's cool! so maybe we'll see some third party OPT plugins then? I take it the OPT plugins in ACID 4.0 at the moment are coded by SonicFoundry and not Yamaha? Jason
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: CDM Date:8/10/2002 1:21:40 PM webpuppy - yes, they're coded by SF.
Subject:RE: Acid 4.0 new features Reply by: Jacose Date:8/10/2002 1:43:03 PM Part of SoFo's apps' appeal lies in their interfaces. Very clean and uncluttered yet the power is still there. Each app concentrates on a specific task.. true true.... but Is still sucks to have to render in Acid, send to vegas, edit in acid, resend to vegas... its retarded, and sooner or later ALL software will have to integrate to keep up with the others..and be stable at the same time. But I will deal with it cause s.f's appz are so great.

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