Subject:No guilt! Use loops, ignore the critics!

Posted by: gbat

Date:7/1/2002 2:38:50 PM

Lotsa talk in some forums about using loops being almost unethical. Balderdash! Music is one of the ARTS! Visual artists don't neccesarily create everything from scratch. Some use photos, collages, put worms in paint and throw em on the canvas, use projectors, etc., etc. Why can't musical artists have the freedom to make music in any legitimate, (as in lawful), way? Answer, we do!!!

You're not a musician? You can't play an instrument? You use Acid loops and create songs because ya got good taste? IT'S OK! Maybe not everyone will like yer stuff, but that's the same for "real" musicians.

Summary: use what ya got, ignore the poo-poo people!

Subject:RE: No guilt! Use loops, ignore the critics!

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:7/1/2002 4:04:13 PM

Right on, gbat.

I think it's really ignorant for someone to say something like that. I mean, I can't play drums for my life (just too weak I guess) but I do know my music theory. (I do play electric guitar and classical guitar—well, I might add. So they can't say I can't play an instrument.)

Does that mean, from what they're saying, is that I don't have the right to create my own percussive tracks, however I go about doing it? Tuh. Since I don't have a band, I'm not hiring a drummer. I just don't have the need to do so. I know my theory and I know the rhythm I want, so I make it.

I use One-shot type tracks for percussion, which means I have to plunk down an event for every instance I want the One-shot to play. How is that any different from any MIDI sequencer? Or any live drummer for that matter? (I can imagine the furballs I'd get into just trying to get him/her to play the rhythm I want.)

Even if a musician were to use a Loop type track, I personally wouldn't care. If the shoe fits, wear it. Like Rockitglider said in another thread, everyone uses loops in one form or another.

What it sounds like to me is that those who frown on the use of loops can't stand the fact that someone else other than themselves can creatively take advantage of the technology. They need to know there's more to it than just paint and play.

Iacobus

Subject:RE: No guilt! Use loops, ignore the critics!

Reply by: jsv

Date:7/1/2002 5:34:18 PM

MD,

I agree with you concerning the use of loops, there's nothing to be ashamed of !!! It's a creative mean as legitimate as the use of a regular instrument. However something you wrote stroked me : "I can imagine the furballs I'd get into just trying to get him/her to play the rhythm I want" By saying that you're showing that you're missing the whole point of playing WITH somebody. You should let the drummer express what the tune makes him feel, let him play whatever he wants and even better, use what you hear from him to inspire you. To me playing in a band is all about interaction... and not hiring people at your orders that will have no choice but to follow your instructions.
I've done both type of music for many years: in a band and by myself with Acid and I came to the conclusion that
1. I get exactly what i want when i program my own drums
2. But no machine will EVER replace the feel of a real good drummer!!!

Subject:RE: No guilt! Use loops, ignore the critics!

Reply by: Jessariah

Date:7/1/2002 9:26:25 PM

I was one of those who thought using loops was "cheating." Depending on the application, it's much faster, and it also allows you much more flexibility in terms of sounds available. Plus, everyone has their own approach -- you put two or three different loop composers together in one song, and it's pretty interesting.

I love writing from scratch and I love looping. Both take a certain amount of skill. You still have to have a "feel" for it and use your ears. A program that takes care of the transposing and bpm isn't going to make songs by itself.

Subject:RE: No guilt! Use loops, ignore the critics!

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:7/3/2002 3:09:07 PM

Sorry, jsv. Didn't mean to offend you like that.

I should mention a solo effort vs. a group effort situation.

In a solo effort, my theory is to respect the composer's wishes, and the composer should be open to ideas. However, if the composer likes what he/she had better, even if the musician (whether they be a drummer, guitarist, etc.) likes what he/she had, then the composer's wish should be respected. It's just plain manners in this case.

In a group effort, my theory is to throw everyone's ideas around and democratically come up with the ideas to a project until a decision is made.

I don't know about conclusion number 2; I definitely agree with it unless you want an intentionally mechanical sound. What do you do then? I would say conclusion number 1. ;o)

Iacobus

Subject:and the cycle reapeats....

Reply by: groovewerx

Date:7/4/2002 1:38:13 AM

i hate to date myself but thats the same stuff they said about midi and using "computers" (sequencers/drum machines) back in the early 80's. then again when sampling got popular.

Subject:RE: and the cycle reapeats....

Reply by: anon

Date:7/4/2002 3:54:57 AM

How many drummers does it take to screw in a lightbulb?


None, they have a machine for that now.



Actually, not do I only not use loops, I don't even use real instruments. I'm such a purist that if I can't recreate an instrument using my own voice, then I won't use it. I'm kind of like a white Bobby McFerren.

don't worry be happy now ;)

Subject:RE: and the cycle reapeats....

Reply by: ATP

Date:7/4/2002 3:20:42 PM

lol @ anon. :)

i would agree that even tho i use many many homemade loops, in lots of various ways, i'm not a real Musician. a Composer, yes, but a Musician? no.

of course this is all semantics we're talking here. who cares what kind of category you fall in? as long as you can express your creativity, whether using loops, real instruments, or a combination of both.

however, people who claim electronic music is not real music need a wake up call. it all depends on what the artist in question has done with his samples. for example i'm loath to call Britney Spears real music, even tho her producer is using loops as well. but if you take a band like Zero7 or Boozoo Bajou, they use loops too, but it's very musical nonetheless. it all depends on what you do with your loops. :)

Subject:RE: No guilt! Use loops, ignore the critics!

Reply by: gbat

Date:7/5/2002 7:54:10 AM

Sound is sound. If I can make music out of the sound that Tom Cruise and George Micheal make as I bash their heads together, so be it. :)

Subject:RE: No guilt! Use loops, ignore the critics!

Reply by: SPP

Date:7/6/2002 10:13:14 AM

The bottom line is: Does it sound good? If it does, then it is. Looping is just as valid an art form as composing with a "real" instrument. I do both, and make pretty good sounding songs with both. Keep in mind that with any music technology there are going to be people who are good at it and those who aren't. Good music is good music. How you got here from there has absolutely no bearing on how good it is to listen to. Aren't there more important things to be discussing?

SPP