Subject:Recording Midi

Posted by: aarrington

Date:6/22/2002 11:45:36 PM

Hi all,

PLEASE BARE WITH ME ON THIS, IT IS A BIT LONG!!!

This is my first time being involved with this type of discussion forum with any Sonic Foundry product. WOW, it sounds like I'll get a lot of help, and can hopefully help some of you! So, here I go with my first question!

I own an Ensoniq TS-10 sequencer where I create most of my beats. To record vocals and other tracks with my beats, I work with a BOSS BR-8 track machine. My process is pretty simple:

1. Have the BR-8 generate a midi clock (be the master)
2. Create, arrange, and mix the sequence the way I want it on the TS-10
3. Record the TS-10 mix as one track on the BR-8. This sets up a sync track.
4. Use the remaining seven tracks on the BR-8 to record vocals, overlays, live guitars, etc. Since the BR-8 triggers the TS-10 to play the sequence via midi (step 3 above), I have a sync track that allows me to go back to the TS-10 at any time, remix the sequence, and re-record on the the BR-8 without losing sync with other seven tracks.
5. Mix all BR-8 tracks the way I want, and record a single wave file onto my PC to burn CD's.

This process works great, but the problem is that I am limited in the number of tracks I can use. In other words, I really only have eight tracks available for use before I have to bounce tracks, or call it quits.

So, while I've never been a big fan of using computers as track machines and mixers (O.K., I ADMIT, I'M A KNOB TWISTER!!!), I have succumbed to the pressure and self-taught myself how to use Acid as a MIDI master. This has allowed me to bypass the BR-8 completely (unless I want to use the BR-8 as a mic input because it has some great effects). Here is my new process using Acid:

1. Have Acid generate a midi clock (be the master)
2. Create, arrange, and mix a sequence the way I want on the TS-10
3. Record the TS-10 mix as one track on Acid(is that called a "one shot"?). This sets up a sync track.
4. Record vocals, overlays, live guitars, etc. directly to the Acid project. Since Acid triggers the TS-10 to play the sequence via midi (step 3 above), I have a sync track that allows me to go back to the TS-10 at any time, remix the sequence, and re-record on Acid without losing sync with other Acid tracks.

That's it! With this process, I have an unlimited amount of tracks. But I have gain this advantage at the expense of other editing techniques I had with the BR-8, particularly auto-punching. For example, say I screw up during part of my vocals and I want to keep everything except that mistake. On the BR-8, I could simply auto-punch. But on Acid, the only way I know right now how to handle is to either:

1. Start over the entire track, or
2. Hide part of the original wave at the point where I screwed up, and record a new wave file beginning at that same point.

With this Acid process, I'm not only creating a bunch of extra tracks, which makes managing the project more complex, but I'm also probably wasting hard drive space, memory, and/or whatever else by creating unnecessary wave files.

Does anyone else who works with Midi sequences or does any other midi work know what I am talking about and how I can improve my techniques? It seems like there must be an easier way to do this.

YOU WILL BE MY HEROS FOREVER AND EVER IF YOU HELP ME WITH THIS!!!!!

THANKS!

Subject:RE: Recording Midi

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:6/23/2002 10:27:38 PM

Recording in ACID, even in ACID Pro, is a relatively rudimentary process. Because of that, you might to take a look at something like Sound Forge, which will let you punch in a specific length to record on a track.

You should be able to use such a technique when exporting a track from ACID straight into Sound Forge. You'd then save changes to the track once you're done in Sound Forge, and when you switch back to ACID, the file should automatically update itself. However, you have to be careful, as there's no going back once you save in Sound Forge.

You might also want to check out the MIDI sync features in Sound Forge. (Full version only.)

HTH,
Iacobus

Subject:RE: Recording Midi

Reply by: aarrington

Date:6/24/2002 11:22:21 PM

Thanks for the reply, Iacobus! But I am a little confused. My TS-10 only excepts midi clock triggers (i.e. no SMTE or MTC options). How do I prepare tracks in Sound Forge and have them all sync together either in Sound Forge or Acid? I basically want to record in the same general process as I explained in Acid, unless there is a better way that you know of. To refresh, that process is to:

1. Have Acid generate a midi clock (be the master)
2. Create, arrange, and mix a sequence the way I want on the TS-10
3. Record the TS-10 mix as one track on Acid(is that called a "one shot"?). This sets up a sync track.
4. Record vocals, overlays, live guitars, etc. directly to the Acid project. Since Acid triggers the TS-10 to play the sequence via midi (step 3 above), I have a sync track that allows me to go back to the TS-10 at any time, remix the sequence, and re-record on Acid without losing sync with other Acid tracks.

Thanks!

Subject:RE: Recording Midi

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:6/25/2002 12:22:03 PM

That's a really good method to begin with.

Here's what I would do:

-Record my tracks as usual in ACID (just as you do). If I flub or have waste I want to get rid of, I right-click the track's track icon and select, "Edit in Sound Forge x.x". The track then opens in Sound Forge.

-I make my edits (delete, move, copy, paste, etc.). If I want, I can even record right here too. I just place my cursor where I want the recording to begin and click the Record button.

-Once I'm done in Sound Forge (and once I'm sure I'm done with the file), I save and then switch back to ACID. ACID will automatically update what I just did in Sound Forge. I double-click the track's track icon to open the track properties. I then click the "Reload" button to ensure that the track properties are updated to reflect the changes made to the file from Sound Forge. (I may have to paint or draw the track back in, but that's no big deal.)

I'm basically addressing your issue of the problem of what you to do with problematic tracks once you record them in ACID. By simply opening up a recorded track in an external editor like Sound Forge, you can make changes to the recorded track (or even add to the recorded track by recording some more). Once these changes are done in the external editor, ACID should update the track itself accordingly as well. Try it if you've got an external editor.

One caveat: If you do further recording in Sound Forge, be sure to place the cursor first, as Sound Forge will record over the data if any exists from that point onward. If you feel you don't like what's been done, you can close the file in Sound Forge without saving and then go back to ACID as usual.

HTH,
Iacobus

Subject:RE: Recording Midi

Reply by: aarrington

Date:6/26/2002 2:08:19 AM

--In your second bullet of your prior message, you said "I just place my cursor where I want the recording to begin and click the Record button." But that's not really punching is it? Punching as I know is when you set a record start and stop point, which will allow you to act as if you are singing your entire verse (or whatever) in REAL TIME with the rest of the sounds. However, you will ONLY be recording between the punch times. Isn't that correct? Is that possible with Acid or Sound Forge?

--In your third bullet, you said "I may have to paint or draw the track back in, but that's no big deal." But isn't it a big deal if I can sync it back up? Wouldn't I have to paint in into the exact same POSITION in Acid?


--Also in your third message, YES I've edited sounds like that and I use Sound Forge 5.0 as my external editor, but sound is solo during this process. In other words, I can't hear sound in real time with the rest of the music during editing. Is that possible? (sort of the same thing I asked about with punching).

Subject:RE: Recording Midi

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:6/26/2002 4:05:59 PM

-Sorry about that for not being clear enough. Sound Forge itself has several recording modes, including punch-in, allowing a specific length of audio to be recorded (which you specify, of course). That's correct; you will be only recording between the punch times specified.

-That's true. Since ACID has several options of working with an event besides drawing and painting, including slipping, slip-trimming, and sliding, I thought it would be not too much of a chore to have to realign an event if necessary.

-I don't think so. However, a way around it would be to save the track in ACID Pro under a new name and work with that in Sound Forge, saving it and previewing the changes back in ACID. (To save a track under a new name, duplicate the original track first, then access the track properties and while holding down CTRL, click the "Save" button. ACID will prompt you for a name and location.)

Know that sounds like a lot of steps but it will ensure your original track stays untouched just in case.

HTH,
Iacobus