Nate:

The DA-MAX+ does not do DV50. If you're serious about quality, skip (quantized DCT compressed) DV50 and go for uncompressed 4:2:2. Boards like the VideoPump can capture SDI to QuickTime 4:2:2 files, and Vegas can read and write those. Unfortunately, you don't get nearly the performance as you do with DV. Also, there is no external monitor feature in 4:2:2.

For most, DV is a great comprimise because it's *very* cost effective compared to 4:2:2 DigiBeta decks and interfaces.

There's already HD decks announced that will support Firewire, so future NLE's will be doing everything you can do with DV today, but in HD @ 4:2:2. You're definitely going to want a new PC for that, too <g>.

///d@

It's not the compression format that I'm concerned about... it's the sampling method. I just want a way to get 4:2:2 in and out of vegas in real-time, directly from the vegas timeline.

Currently there is NO way to do that. =(

Will Vegas support HD @ 4:2:2 over fierwire? If so what are the plans? What about standard definition at 4:2:2? Will vegas *ever* support that or vegas going to be relegated to the consumer 4:1:1 formats forever?

Buying a new PC is not the problem. Getting the quality I need isn't either: I already have Matrox DigiSuite LE that I use with Adobe Premiere. That gives me great 4:2:2 real-time playback out of the timeline.

But I like Vegas... and I'd like to support the product. It just sounds to me that it is now and forever more going to be geared at the consumer 4:1:1 masses. So unfortunately it doesn't seem like I'll be able to use Vegas for the projects I'd like to use it for.

--nate

There are two reasons:

1. Do you know how much time it takes to render a 2 hour project?
2. Vegas seems to be unstable with the Matrox codecs. I usually get crashes after 10-15 minutes of rendering.

--nate

Seriously,

I do also own DV equipment, and I use Vegas for editing my home movies of friends and family. I also use Vegas for any type of multimedia work that I do for clients, because the Windows Media support in Vegas is terrific.

But I do also have a large investment in professional 4:2:2 equipment, and it just irks me that everytime I need to do professional 4:2:2 video for professional clients, that I have to put Vegas away and go back to Adobe Premeire.

I wish that weren't the case, because -- everyhting else being eaual -- Vegas is such a better product than Premeire. But it really forces me to conclude what I don't really want to beleive: that Vegas is consumer software, and I won't ever be able to use it (efficiently, at least) for higher-end production work.

I do realize the value in targeting consumer-oriented production with Vegas. It's a big market, and that's why I never sold my shares of SOFO. In other words, I see why it make business sense for SOFO to stick with 4:1:1, but it's still a bummer for me.

Anyhow, it looks like going long on SOFO stock and continuing to edit 4:2:2 in Adobe Premiere is my path for the forseable future.

--nate

bakerbud9:

> I just want a way to get 4:2:2 in and out of vegas in real-time, directly from the vegas timeline. Currently there is NO way to do that. =(

True. Just as in version 2 there was no way to output 4:1:1 DV from the timeline like you can in version 3.

> Will Vegas support HD @ 4:2:2 over fierwire? If so what are the plans? What about standard definition at 4:2:2? Will vegas *ever* support that or vegas going to be relegated to the consumer 4:1:1 formats forever?

As a policy, Sonic Foundry does not comment on future product plans. We do, however, watch current and future technology trends, and try to make development decisions that offer our customers powerful tools with a good feature mix. We also listen to customer input, like yours, so, thanks.

///d@

I hear ya.

But I have been waiting...

And I have used those other software apps, too.

I'm not asking "when" the capabilities will exist. I'm only asking "will" they ever exist. And time again the response is a resounding wall of silence, and that appears -- at best -- to mean that they haven't made a decision (or worst: that they are indecisive).

In other words, I'm really trying to ask SOFO: what is Vegas, and where is it going?

Right now it sits precariously on the fence that separates the professional from the prosumer. Are the future releases of Vegas going to push it off the fence and clearly into the professional market or the prosumer market? Or is the goal of SOFO to keep Vegas strategically poised -- forever -- on the fence that divides these two markets? If you think about it, its really a wierd place to be: the software is powerful enough to satisfy the most demanding prosumer, and promising enough to tantilize demanding professionals (but only to tantilize, unfortunately).

So in that sense, I'm asking for someone to clarify for me what the vision and mission of the Vegas software group and business model is.

Sincerely,

Nate

You might want to hang around at http://www.avsforum.com in the HTPC (Home Theater PC) group. They are recommending the SILK SDI card which has DirectX/WDM drivers. There is also a lot of free software available for using it as a capture device. There is support for lossless Huffman based YUV 8bit4:2:2 codecs as well. The Silk apparantly converts analog sources, including component into a very stable SDI stream. There is even some free deinterlacing software if you wan to go progressive. I am investigating this, because I too want to want to do some 4:2:2 editing in Vegas. There are links to various WDM/vfw codecs and drivers. The HTPC guys use it to capture signal from a DVD or VHS player, and run a free scaller/deinterlacer software out via SDI into and a projector (both SD and HD).

here are some links for further info.

http://www.divx-digest.com
This place is great for getting info on all the free software floating around the net(not just DIVX related) to do just about anything you can think of in Video on a PC. (select the software index on the left of the main page). Has links to software like VirtualDub, AVISynth and other great free software for captureing and batchprocessing video. A lot of these can make great toolkits to use with Vegas. (Vegas is listed as one of the better Video Editing software pacakages).

Here is a link to a free lossless 8bit4:2:2 YUV codec based on Huffman encoding.
http://www.math.berkeley.edu/~benrg/huffyuv.html. Its a bit dated but still works, and installs as a codec visible to the Windows Media Interface. The developer is Ben Gould I think. goto Virtualdub.org for links to lots of other good 8bit4:2:2 codecs that should work with Vegas.

The home page for the SDI Silk card is http://www.sdisilk.com.

Free scaler/deinterlacing software .. dscaler.org, though the directshow filter for it is avaiable at the silk web site, not the dscaler web site.

Hope this helps.

Joe C.

It's no great help, but I used to shop another forum, having a capture card and software of a company whose name rhymes with "pentacle." Every week it seemed there was an announcement of an upcoming patch, or bug fix, or workaround utility, or version. It was sheer torture, drove the forum users crazy, and put tremendous pressure on Pinnacle--uh, pentacle--to rush its releases. I actually lost faith in the product due to the string of delayed and/or unfulfilled promises. I understand why SoFo doesn't want to make representations that others will rely on before the product is out (but then I'm a lawyer). However, I think SonicDennis has all but said VV is patiently developing, among other things, precisely what you ask for, and I believe they have the in-house technical clout to pull it off. (With my luck I'll have just bought a Sony DSR-PD150P DV camcorder when VV4:2:2 lands.) :)

There's no doubt SOFO has the technical proficiency. My faith in Monty and Curtis is the main reason I'm going long on my SOFO shares (and even continue to buy more, now that they are at these increddibly cheap discounted prices).

Yes, I hear the argument you make about vaporware and unmet expectations, and I'm sure part of the reason SOFO is silent on these issues is due to that. However, I also get the sense that SOFO has adopted a very conservative "wait and see" attitude towards adding particular features. I'm sure this conservatism is because of the depressed market conditions that we live in right now. Cash is tight, and development costs money. So its prudent to not develop features that are not "essential" to the success of the product.

The negative side of that kind of conservatism, however, is that it is very much like running the White House based on the results of daily polls. In other words, that kind of conservatism can lead to a muddled and unclear vision of what the mission and true objective is. I get the sense that is part of the problem SOFO is facing right now.

Sincerely,

Nate