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Subject:Is "Flaming" productive?
Posted by: jgalt
Date:6/17/2002 5:51:31 AM
Occasionally I notice various degrees of "flaming" used in posts within this forum. Sometimes some writers can't come up with the phrase "I have a different opinion because" and let it go at that. I haven't been able to figure out the "positives" of implying that the other guy is a dumb dumb for suggesting something. The other guy did make an attempt at helping. Perhaps his response was in error. Must he be "dragged through the mud" because his response wasn't the greatest? I do understand that for a fleeting second the name caller feels good because he fired an arrow at the other guy. Will you try to help me next week if I call you a dumb dumb today? Is Flaming productive in the long run? |
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Subject:RE: Is
Reply by: MyST
Date:6/17/2002 6:37:26 AM
I don't think Flaming is productive in the long, short or any other run. But *&?&"*# YOU!!! ;) Actually, I've never seen an area where the opinions are so varied and defended than computers. Have you ever had to bring in a different technician to look at the existing network some other technician set up. Nothing but put-downs! " I wouldn't have done it like that. What was he/she thinking!" I think as long as there are people PASSIONATE about their hobby/profession/sideline, you'll unfortunately have flaming. ¢¢ |
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Subject:RE: Is
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:6/17/2002 6:43:18 PM
I believe you are probably referring to many of my responses when referring to "flamming". I agree with the "passion" part as the above response mentions. Most of the time I will say "I disagree with your reply.....and inform them they are wrong". But of course, they are passionate too and feel they are not wrong and start to get very defensive, and the mud slinging begins. I think, when someone is looking for help and someone gives a really misinformative response, then both people will benefit from the corrections. When I tell someone they're wrong, I give supporting information, and explain why they are wrong. Some people chose to get defensive, and others chose to learn and say Thanks. Those people that usually take the defensive and attack, get attacked and flamed back. Some people have earned "frequent flaming miles" with me and automatically get flammed when they post blantantly wrong responses. Just the nature of the beast. |
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Subject:RE: Is
Reply by: beetlefan
Date:6/18/2002 4:11:27 AM
*I* can think of ONE individual here who indulges in the "flame game"! His name starts with an "R". |
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Subject:RE: Is
Reply by: MyST
Date:6/18/2002 6:57:04 AM
The anonymity of forums is another reason flaming is part of the game. Some 98 pound weakling gets to kick sand in the bully's face not only once, but as many times as he wants. The "computer geek" who got picked on in school all the time now gets to dish it out, and there isn't a whole lot anyone can do about it. There is also the fact that these programs are available to the general population, not just "professionals". So, someone who is knowledgeable in digital audio (like Rednroll) could be having a battle of wits with a 17 year old who decided to give up the electric guitar and go for audio software as a buzz. The differences in languages don't always help. What someone means in his language can sometimes become distorted when he tries to translate to english. Even an english person can express himself poorly, not meaning to insult. But someone takes it the wrong way...and we're off flaming. So, there are tons of reasons flaming will always be part of forums. Are there forums that DON'T have flaming?? ¢¢ OK, maybe ¢¢¢ |
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Subject:RE: Is
Reply by: Chienworks
Date:6/18/2002 7:54:04 AM
These are the rules posted on the login and registration pages of my chat & form site: "... is a clean, friendly, family oriented chatroom. We do expect that you will be polite and courteous to others while in here. Please refrain from rude and offensive behavior. Rather than list an extensive set of rules, we will simply note that swearing, lewd or sexually explicit conversation, arguments, obscenities, insults, hate, prejudice, or anything that is offensive to the rest of the chatters has no place here." For the most part, all the participants agree and cooperate, mostly because that is the kind of atmosphere they want and that is why they choose to participate there. The few who disregard that atmosphere quickly find themselves unappreciated and wander off elsewhere. So far, out of over 4000 participants, i've only had one case where i had to remove some postings. So, yes, i know of at least one site where flaming is practically non-existant. :) |
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Subject:RE: Is
Reply by: MyST
Date:6/18/2002 8:19:46 AM
Hey Chienworks, I can attest to the "cleanliness" of your site, I've visited it before. The thing is "flaming" isn't always rude and insulting, at least it doesn't always start out that way. Take a look at the previous posts. Even though Rednroll admits to being a "flamer"(or perceived as being) in his very first sentence, someone (who starts with a "b") needs to give a little jab. What happens next is that the thread that talks about how useless flaming is will undoubtedly become firey. M |
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Subject:RE: Is
Reply by: Hummingbird
Date:6/18/2002 10:57:35 AM
Because I am a newcomer to Sound Forge and to this forum, I have taken a considerable amount of time to read most of the nearly 3,000 posts which go as far back as 1999. If compiled into a single document, these would make the nucleus of a great textbook, by the way. Having just completed the last of these messages, it is clear that there seems to be strong competitiveness between the opinions of "R" and "B," (which is where 99% of the flaming takes place). For the most part, the constituency here seems clearly divided between the novices (like me) and the pros (or semi-pros). Most of the arguing is between the latter group who each have their own ways of doing things. I am learning a lot by listening, even if I have to occasionally "roast marshmallows by the open fire." |
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Subject:RE: Is
Reply by: Weka
Date:6/18/2002 4:17:37 PM
I work with a producer who can, at times, be rude, ignorant, and deeply offensive. Despite that, he is without question the best producer I've ever worked with. Clients allow him leeway that simply would not be allowed to any other. If you want quality results you put up with it grasshopper! Enlightened self-interest it sure is! As a musician forced into the technical domain by geographical isolation, your posts have at times saved by skin - including those from the self-confessed flammer. You guys can flam as much as you like if I get my tech issues solved. Weka is detached!! For truly studied, post-doctoral flamming, thrill to Ted P's posts on the Cakewalk group! A great deal can be learnt from him. |
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Subject:RE: Is
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:6/18/2002 6:35:09 PM
and I was just impressed that he even knew my name started with an "R", seeing that he can't even spell "beatle". :-)~ |
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Subject:RE: Is
Reply by: Dave2
Date:6/18/2002 8:25:47 PM
When I frist started reading this forum I was shocked at the foul language. Flaming is one thing, profanity is another. I had to advise all my 4H parents to block all posts by Rednroll. This is a shame because this man is very knowledgeable. He helped me one on one selecting a preamp processor. Also I asked 4H parents to preview all threads on this forum that their children need to read. Adults on these forums need to realize that these forums are read by many groups at different age levels and are used as learning tools. Dave M. |
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Subject:RE: Is
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:6/18/2002 11:15:55 PM
Damn!!...oops..I mean "Darn it all, gosh". I guess I just lost the 4H vote when running for political office. Well, maybe there's still a chance for the Cubscouts, and Brownie vote. I've definitely got the Harley Biker vote. Too bad about that 4H group though, nothing I've ever written is anything close to the graphiti written on any public restroom wall. Do you keep them from using the restroom too when they gotta go? |
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Subject:RE: Is
Reply by: Dave2
Date:6/19/2002 7:57:44 PM
I completely understand where you are coming from Rednroll. Today's youth are exposed to much more Social Darkness then I ever was. If you wish to add to the Darkness, so be it. It's none of my business You need to understand that when I recommend a web site or even a book to these young people then I am responsible to them and their parent's for what they see or read.. BTW. We only have two public restroom's in our little community. One at the gas station & one in the town park. There is no 'graffiti' at either location. Dave M |
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Subject:RE: Is
Reply by: Rednroll
Date:6/19/2002 9:32:31 PM
Well that's the difference between you and me. Our definition of "Darkness" is not the same. It seems you think that by sheltering children from the environment that's around them, you are protecting them. To me that's doing more harm than benefit. So I may feel you are the one "contributing to the social Darkness". I feel a better approach is to educate them, and let them be able to make their own decisions, when they encounter that environment. Some of those children will grow up and move out of that little town with no graffitti. You therefore choose to raise sheep and send them out to the wolves, for the slaughtering. I choose to raise a hunter who can defend themselves, instead of the hunted. |
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Subject:RE: Is
Reply by: beetlefan
Date:6/20/2002 3:50:19 PM
Rednroll and I came from different places. I came from a different software experience and had just started with SF. I do restoration and some demo work. He apparently does tracking. Once upon a time, Rednroll apparently didn't like something I posted-don't recall what it was-and insulted me and told people not to pay attention to me. For what reason, i'll never know. The guy strikes me as an old, cantankerous, mean-spirited individual who doesn't like anyone who dares disagree with him. I wish I were wrong about him, but there was never any cause for his flaming me. The only thing we both seem to agree on is that we hate these newbies who ask that aggravating question of how to remove vocals. We may also agree that it's a sad situation when you put powerful audio editing programs in the hands of people without a clue or any basic understanding of audio. I also happen to agree with him 100% on the sending children out to be able to defend themselves in this world. They will be eaten alive if you keep trying to protect them from the big, bad world. You can stay in your little womb of a town but you will never grow. My way, I would show children the consequences of not being careful in this world. Rednroll would probably have somebody jumped or raped to teach them. Anyway, Insulting people is no way for real pros, like Red says he is, to conduct themselves. Most pro recording industry guys are nice guys. Flaming also makes people lose respect for what you have to say and causes them to turn a deaf ear to any valuble advice you may have. I have no doubt that Rednroll is highly experienced and knowledgable, and has a lot to offer people. Just think of how much he could be a leader if he would just control his sadistic tendecies. He should also develop his people skills. I guess he was kicked around by his old man when he was a kid, and now he lashes back at others for it. Tsk-tsk! Most serious forums, music and pro audio are heavily moderated nowadays to prevent thier forums from turning into free-for-alls. Industry pros also don't have time to wade through the garbage to get to the important stuff. It's too bad Rednroll thinks he is the end-all and be-all. He also never learned how to spell because "beetle" IS the correct spelling IF one is NOT referring to a famous British band... I only unblocked his name to see what the guy would say this time. |
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Subject:RE: Is
Reply by: Dave2
Date:6/20/2002 4:52:09 PM
Rednroll Thanks for your reply. I haven't had such a good laugh for a long time. I assure you Sir, the only sheep around here are four legged ones. FYI: My Grandson is going to West Point on a full scholarship. Not bad for a small town/farm boy. Most Students from this area go on to become collage grads. After graduating many choose military career's. Seems to suit them. That might have something to do with both male & female's voluntarily starting boot camp training at age fifteen. You be sure to tell your 'Hunters' That the 'Sheep' from this area have big sharp teeth and have been highly trained in their use. No need to turn this into a pissing contest. You have had your say and I have had mine. I am off this thread. I wish you a peaceful life. Dave M. Four Lakes, Washington |