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Subject:Who uses loops still?
Posted by: DjXSoundz
Date:6/9/2002 3:27:01 PM
out of my curisosity i am wonderin how many people still use loops. i admit i did for a while, but then i grew out of it. jus wonderin how many people still use loops. post -DJ X |
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Subject:RE: Who uses loops still?
Reply by: Jessariah
Date:6/9/2002 6:06:38 PM
I think it's a whole different thing (I'm assuming you mean "use loops" versus "composing from scratch"). I always thought "loop-based" music was "cheating." Then I started playing with Acid and found it was really fun (and it's own creative challenge). The nice thing about looping is the instant gratification -- and the assortment of sounds that you might not have in your existing gear. I haven't yet incorporated loops into my original "from scratch" stuff, but I might. It still takes creativity, and I believe you still have to know what you're doing musically to make it sound its best -- just because a program "fixes" the tempo and key, doesn't mean everyone is going to make great sounding stuff. I go way back to the Mac Plus Midi Days (when the OS fit on a floppy and getting a 10MB external HD was about as big of a deal as you could imagine). I think "loops" and the whole Acid approach are just another tool in the arsenal. But you could hand a novice a Korg Triton with all the trimmings, and you're still gonna hear Chopsticks if they don't know what they're doing. You still need the skills, in my opinion. |
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Subject:RE: Who uses loops still?
Reply by: bgc
Date:6/9/2002 6:28:16 PM
Is this a serious question? Just about every pop/rock/electronic/alt/world/etc. group in the world seems to be using loops. They're all over the radio and nearly all records released today (where loops make sense of course). Whether they're using canned stuff or loops of their own recordings lots of people are using them. |
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Subject:RE: Who uses loops still?
Reply by: David_Kuznicki
Date:6/9/2002 9:14:54 PM
I freely admit to still using loops, although I'm finding myself beginning to use the Sonic Foundry loops a little less after having bought Reason. I'm wondering how long it will be before SF jumps into the softsynth ring... Seriously though, I've scored dozens of (admittedly small) projects with nothing but loops. You don't run the risk of hearing the exact same song elsewhere, as you do with commmercial beds. Once in a while I'll hear a specific loop used in a show or commercial (has MTV heard an Acid loop that they DIDN'T like?), but that's the worst of it. The station I work for, however, uses a set of commerical music beds, and I'll hear the very same music used in other shows on other networks. It's embarassing. It's a risk, however, that you don't really run with Acid... |
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Subject:RE: Who uses loops still?
Reply by: ATP
Date:6/10/2002 5:17:42 AM
i get the feeling you think using loops is a bad thing or something. it depends on what kind of loop it is and how you use it. people who make their own loops are already a step ahead on those who purchase loop libraries on the Net imho. and then you can simply paste the loop, but there are so much things to do with it. you can cut it up, filter it, make it resonate with other loops, toy with the loop's spectrum and colour ... the possibilities are endless. so, in that regard you might as well have asked, who still uses water to boil rice or something to that extent. |
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Subject:RE: Who uses loops still?
Reply by: Jessariah
Date:6/10/2002 8:55:53 AM
That was a good one, ATP... |
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Subject:RE: Who uses loops still?
Reply by: Spirit
Date:6/10/2002 9:17:45 AM
A weird wuestion, sure. But if the question was "who still uses STOCK loops" then i has a bit more meaning. A few years ago a producer/song writer friend of mine started using commercial drum loops instead of making his own. The result was - roughly speaking - a doubling of output, a halving of quality and IMHO the almost complete submergence of his own style. Now he's writing his own again, but they sound just like the loops he used to buy ! |
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Subject:RE: Who uses loops still?
Reply by: Vocalpoint
Date:6/10/2002 9:33:23 AM
I would reframe this by saying that every production, big or small or otherwise, uses the "concept" of the loop. Whether it is a stock loop, a custom item you build yourself or a repeated edit within Vegas or any multitracking app, the ability to repeat a phrase without too much extra work is a key element of all music (especially drums/bass/backing tracks). Acid just makes this so easy and very cool. I use this app in just about every piece I work on, every bed I built etc. I also use the Cut/Copy/Paste loop concept whenever possible in Vegas as well...If I play a wicked guitar riff that is getting difficult to reproduce throughout a whole 5 minute track...I whip it down once and "loop" it in all over the place. It's still me playing..and done right - this method can give a very professional "tightness" to a piece instead of trying to "nail" the phrase on the fly for 5 straight minutes and ending up with 20 correct points later... Cuzin B |
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Subject:RE: Who uses loops still?
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:6/10/2002 1:23:27 PM
Nice one, CuzinB. I still use stock loops in my projects as well, but I'm also using my own now too (for guitar tracks mostly; guitar is my primary instrument). Since I can't play drums worth a damn, it's logical for me to use stock loops for that purpose. However, I usually use One-shots instead of loops for percussion, creating my own unique beat. (Essentially using ACID like a drum machine.) That involves a lot of arranging and some time on my part. When a friend takes a look at my projects zoomed out all the way, they usually say, "What's all that black stuff?" (Due to the One-shots all scrunched together.) For Loop type tracks (as opposed to One-shot tracks), I still like to mangle stock loops, giving my own creative flair to them, using the Chopper, Sound Forge, Plug-ins or any combination between them. Because of all of this, I'll smack anyone upside their head who tell me I'm being cheap by using stock instead of custom loops. Iacobus |
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Subject:RE: Who uses loops still?
Reply by: ATP
Date:6/10/2002 1:30:02 PM
Iacobus, if you were referring to my post, i meant to say that using stock loops brings the risk of those loops being recognized or used by others as well. i don't say that's neccesarily a bad thing, it depends on what kind of music you make. my music is based entirely on loops, used in many various ways. so i'm always trying to find original, unused material, or use it in such a way that it's not very recognizable anymore. i would guess if you make something like pop rock (just an example) the drums or strings might be not so important. and then the use of stock loops would make more sense. as for the way you create beats, that's how i usually make beats myself. it gives you so much more freedom than using a looped beat (which, in turn, could prove to be very effective as well. you never know ;) ) |
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Subject:RE: Who uses loops still?
Reply by: yegge
Date:6/11/2002 6:04:53 AM
I mainly use the one shots from the drum libraries in my projects simply because I don't have a drum kit for use in my studio and they sound superb being that they are professionaly recorded using the best recording mics. In case you don't know what a one shot is, they are like snapshots of an instrument that you can use to create beats in loop form from scratch,(kind of like step recording). In other words, in the drum world it's like having a hundred different Kicks, snares, Crashes, toms, rides and hi-hats to pick and choose from when creating your beats. As far as using pre-recorded loops I very rarely do this for fear that someone listening to my music might say "hey you got that from such and such loop library". Not to mention that it seems to take forever to sift throughout the loop library just to find that right beat or sound. However, when I do use a loop I will rearrange it in soundforge to make it not as recognizable by cutting it up or throwing on it a buch of effects. Otherwise I just create my own by recording my instruments in acid then rendering them as loops. Hope this helps and good luck! |
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Subject:RE: Who uses loops still?
Reply by: Iacobus
Date:6/11/2002 11:30:32 AM
Oops. Sorry, ATP, if my post came across as antagonistic. I was actually being general in scope. I believe that a person can be as creative with something that already exists rather than something they created themselves. (Witness countless remixes.) In the same vein, I don't believe a person should always settle with how a sample sounds in its original form. Iacobus |
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Subject:RE: Who uses loops still?
Reply by: Vocalpoint
Date:6/11/2002 11:36:43 AM
Here here. I second Iacobus... Some of my coolest loopage is the result of a great collage (or evil trainwreck depending on my mood) of existing material. I treat all sound no matter where it comes from as another nail to build that next great snippet. Apps like Acid just make the impossible -possible if you give your creative side a chance. Cuzin B |
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Subject:RE: Who uses loops still?
Reply by: Spirit
Date:6/11/2002 9:29:43 PM
Yegge, maybe you should try using Fruityloops to create your drum loops. It's a very cheap program US$50 for the basic version - and is excellent for drum loops. |
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Subject:RE: Who uses loops still?
Reply by: yegge
Date:6/12/2002 2:36:33 AM
Way ahead of you. The only problem with fruityloops is that I can't create that subliminal noise of the stick raking across the snare inbetween hits. There is a lot of subliminal detail in a real drummer that is unacheivable with any other loop based software on the market. I can do this by getting crazy with the volume envelopes, snipper/chopper effect in soundforge, and a series of fading techniques to acheive that subliminal feel within a beat. Yes, I guess I'm pretty obsessive compulsive about the way my music sounds even if you can't tell the difference in the final mix, but I just like it to be right. Thanks anyway for your help it's greatly appreciated. |
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Subject:RE: Who uses loops still?
Reply by: Spirit
Date:6/12/2002 5:13:16 AM
Hmmm..you could have a wav with the raking sound and a moderate attack and drop that onto a separate track, but I know what you mean... |
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Subject:TO YEGGE
Reply by: Jacose
Date:6/13/2002 11:30:46 PM
I use fruity in conjunction with SF appz all the time.... Its a ton easier to make up beats than to place wav files in an abstract background.... for me anyway..... You can check out a track I made using 1.Fruityloops for ALL DRUMS!!!! (using samples I attained for free over the internet, or from my Boss Dr.Rythym and Dr. Groove) 2.Acid for arranging the loops I made 3.Vegas for recording Guuitars, Vocals, and bass over that.... 4.Waves masters bundle for Dynamics proccessing and EQ. Check it out here, and tell me what you think...http://www.mp3.com/Jae_Merrill Specifically I mean the song "take from me" BTW Fruity 3.5 is going vsti, and if Acid or Vegas uses Vsti in the future (PLZ!!) you willl be able to run fruity inside the appz, integrating it nicely!! |
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Subject:RE: TO YEGGE
Reply by: yegge
Date:6/18/2002 1:26:43 AM
Very impressive. However I don't doubt that Fruityloops is a great and wonderful tool for getting the job done. I just don't really have a lot of time trying to figure out how to take advantage of the tips an tricks of all PC recording software thats on the market. Time never seems to be on my side. When I was making the transistion from Analog Tape recording to PC recording for my new CD my research involved downloading demoes of all recording software out there. Then I would put them to the learning curve tests. This involved determining the one app that I could master easily without consulting the manual frequently. ACID won that contest as did all other SonicFoundry Products therefore purchase was in order. So it's really just a matter of what's best in my opinion. Your stuff sounds great and good luck Y |
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Subject:RE: Who uses loops still?
Reply by: KurtNirvna
Date:6/26/2002 1:44:36 PM
I agree with a lot of the people here. I actually mix and match, depending on my mood. I find some loops to fix perfectly in my from scratch songs. Sometimes I even make stuff completely out of loops, though I never really work too hard on those, I just fool around with them when I'm bored. Using loops is completely by preference. Besides, you have to start somewhere... |
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Subject:RE: Who uses loops still?
Reply by: ROLANDITO
Date:6/27/2002 6:27:11 PM
Interesting subject among us musicians. I only use drum/ percussions loops and everything else you hear from my projects are my own blood,sweat and tears. Lets face it, drums are always going to be drum sounds. Hard to tell these days when everything is done and mastered. God bless home hardisk recording!! |
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Subject:RE: Who uses loops still?
Reply by: loopjockey
Date:6/30/2002 10:17:04 PM
Excellent topic! Long live loops. First thing that comes to mind is drum loops. hmmmm...do i get out my old Boss DR550 and construct from scratch or do i open Acid and mouse click on loops till i'm inspired? Goodbye DR550 i reckon! I am having a great time with Acid. I'm a guitar player and loops really spice up an arrangement. It's not cheating either. Picking the right loop, putting it in the right places and how many to use are crucial considerations. Not just anybody can be musical with loops. |
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Subject:RE: Who uses loops still?
Reply by: Rockitglider
Date:7/1/2002 3:31:23 PM
Hello, Everybody uses loops in some form or another, and everyone uses pre made sounds as well, If your using a sampler it's still using premade samples, the only way your not doing it is if your recording everything you made from scratch with each different instrument, or putting it together in MIDI composition. Whoever says that they're not is lying period. Rockit |