Subject:Plugins + latency in SF 6

Posted by: retro96

Date:5/17/2002 9:59:21 PM

I have noticed that when I am in realtime preview mode with any DX pluggin in SF6 there is a huge latency issue - about 2 seconds difference between the unprocessed audio VU meter and the VU of the pluggin. (not to mention the realtime use of the controls of any given DX plug are about 1-2 seconds behind what I am actually doing.)

changing the "wave" options/preferences has given me no gains.

Win XP / P4-1700
Delta 1010 (used as prefered audio for both rec/playback)
builtin mobo audio (enabled but not being used in Soundforge)

is this normal? In s0nar 2xl I have no problems using audiofx in realtime.........

Subject:RE: Plugins + latency in SF 6

Reply by: dansolo

Date:5/18/2002 12:39:04 AM

plain and simple, disable all onboard audio and video and get dedicated card as the in and output device. ofset latency in record mode if nessary(yu'll see the button) don't use microsft sound mapper in preferences. this should solve your problems. if not, try different senarios until you get the results you want. it is possible with the card you have.

danzilla

Subject:RE: Plugins + latency in SF 6

Reply by: retro96

Date:5/29/2002 11:36:59 AM

In a perfect world I would disable my onboard audio, however it provides a good source of consumer based dac monitoring. Besides, it causes no conflicts or latency issues in other professional audio software packages. Actually in a perfect world I'd have the cash to afford a second computer that was for audio production only.

Perhaps Latency isn't exactly what it is I am experiencing.. As I noted, the Vu Meters of various pluggins from either native sonic foundry plugs, or third party (makes no difference) are showing levels b4 the actual main soundforge app does, and as it should considering the audio path should run through the pluggin b4 it hits the main outs. the pluggin VU's however are about 1 second ahead of the VU's shown in soundforge. again, this is when using RealTime preview mode of a plug. also, changes I make on the plug in real time also do not get reflected until about 1 second after I apply the changes.. imho this is kinda slow. infact somewhat annoyingly slow..

luckily I only use sf for mastering and cuts. so I can live with it. but others I am sure use this tool for a bit more, and this problem (which has no documentation either on this site or in the app itself) must be troubling to others..

Now, I haven't bothered to try disabling my onboard audio, but, perhaps SF should have an option to DISABLE audio card DRIVERS that you don't want to use if indeed my on board audio is the cause behind this latency. -(using AC97 for that) - S0nar allows for this and is an essential tool for getting optimal results in a profesional setting.

I am also wondering why it is that the keyword "latency" shows almost no hits here. This is a form of latency to my knowledge, and I'm sure I'm not the only one with this problem........

-Retro96

Subject:RE: Plugins + latency in SF 6

Reply by: Ben 

Date:5/29/2002 6:56:15 PM

In what now amounts to a good few years of using host-based audio software on many different PCs and soundcards, I've never managed to get Direct X metering to tally with the actual audio output! I don't know if other people have had more success; I eventually concluded that that's just how it is. Anyone know any different or the answer to this one?

Ben

Subject:RE: Plugins + latency in SF 6

Reply by: pwppch

Date:5/29/2002 10:25:36 PM

The cause of this is the buffering that Forge does of the audio data.

Basically, the audio is run through the FX before you actually hear it. Any DAW or audio program must do this to some degree. Forge is not a multitrack and does not attempt to run as close to the metal as say Vegas or SONAR.

This buffering has the effect of making the meters early and the FX param changes to be late.

Peter

Subject:RE: Plugins + latency in SF 6

Reply by: Ben 

Date:5/30/2002 5:51:53 AM

Thanks for that Peter. But, exactly the same thing happens in Vegas...

Subject:RE: Plugins + latency in SF 6

Reply by: pwppch

Date:5/30/2002 10:32:32 PM

It depends on your buffer settings in Vegas (and in Forge). By default, Vegas uses a VERY conservative 350 ms buffering. This will account for the meters being early, and FX adjustments being late.

It also depends a GREATE deal on the plugin. Many plugins with all there fancy UI meters and animation are extremely expensive. They also are non-inplace plugins typically, so they will incurr and additional overhead of requiring even more data than the latency settings before producing output or responding to changes. They can effectively double or more the latency and response time of a system.

What FX are you using that you have this problem with in Vegas and how are you using them?

Peter

Subject:RE: Plugins + latency in SF 6

Reply by: Ben 

Date:5/31/2002 6:05:10 PM

Hi Peter

I actually get this with all plugins on Vegas, whether as track inserts or assignable FX. Even with SF Track Compressor the meter plays ahead of the audio. It's not a big deal, but it would be nice if there was a solution! Maybe there's something I can change in the internal settings...?

Thanks
Ben