Grazie -
It IS a brilliant package! Kudos to SF! I'm really curious now about seeing what VegasPro does over and above VF.
BTW: When you have the PinP travel across the screen, does the inset image stay centered within the box? I can get the box to "travel" but it travels OVER the overlay scene instead of WITH it. i.e. The image in the box does not move WITH the box.
Grazie, I've seen a lot of your posts. I KNOW you'll figure it out!

~PJ

Pjfarr,
I assume you have seen Grazie's very comprehensive post to the forum which answers your question to the last detail (Pip no need to synchronize frame movement). I've used the technique and posted a short (39 seconds) intro clip to a show I'm working on now to Chienworks web site. Both techniques (PIP insert frame moving, PIP insert frame not moving) are included. This is really cool! PIP will be a permanent part of all of my shows from now on.
Randy

pjfarr,

The key to this is that you need to 'shrink' your PiP'd video, to fit inside the moving frame. This is done by enlarging the Pan/Crop 'F' frame to approximately twice the size, in the PiP'd video FX dialog.

You can get the pip to move by doing the following.

1. V1 (big stationary video) in the lower video track
2. V2 (to be smaller moving PiP) in the upper overlay track
3. drag the PiP effect (from the cookie cutter list of effects) onto V2.

4. Leave all the presets where they are, select the appropriate portion of the timeline to preview the effect. (I start at the beginning of V2)

5. Move the 'brown square' and see the rectangle move. (it is a good idea to leave at least a small border so you can see the edges of the rectangle)

6. Place the brown square where you want the V2 pip to start. (I'll start at the bottom right for this demo)

7.Select the Pan/Crop tab in the FX dialog.
8. Click the magnifying glass, and then right-click inside the window to 'zoom-out' (I've found if I want the pip to be in the bottom right of the frame, I'll right-click the magnifying glass at the upper left of the visible image. This will approx double the viewing area.)

9. With an eye on the preview window, grab the upper left part of the 'F' box (a rectangular box with a dotted-line border) and drag it till it is about double its original size) you should see the image in the preview window 'shrink' at the same time. Fiddle with it til it 'fits' into the PIP rectangle.

That will get the pip the right size.

Now to move the clip, the same thing needs to be done at the 'End' portion of the FX dialog.

1. Click FX tab, to show the brown box on the white screen again.
2. Click the End button (upper right of the dialog)
3. position the preview at the End of the V2 clip.
4. drag the brown rectangle to the end position (for the example, using the bottom left. in the preview, the rectangle will move past the video and look empty at its final position.
5. Click the Pan/Crop tab
6. Click the END button in the Pan Crop tab.
7. Drag the 'F' box (no need to resize, we are just moving the frame. (you can think of it as moving the smaller image...) so that the small image is at the bottom left of the 'F' box. (you should see the small V2 image slide into the rectangle in the preview).

Check the preview, by pressing the play button.. and see if the movement is right.

That is a recollection of the steps I took, and pretty much matches Grazie's description. Look at both, and use the parts that make sense to you.

Playing with the Beginning and End.. you can make the Pip start small on one end, and grow bigger.. or smaller... have the border disappear, the feathering increase (to have a soft edge around the PIP)...

Hope this helps...

Yup J....

After 4 hours of typing up the "39 Steps", I started to loose the will to live. Your descirptions are clear and "illuminating"

Grazie

I'm a tech writer (actually a technical course developer)... :) your 4 hours of typing in the 'dark side' is my daily grind...

Makes me a bit loopy too...

Thanks guys for taking the time to detail your techniques!
I appreciate it.
~PJ

It's my pleasure, and your appreciation is very welcomed.

Now then, let's have a discussion about making creative movies:

* Pace
* Content
* Audience
* Drama
* Audio

Who wants to kick this off?

I await with baited breath,

Grazie

Do mean using this effect to establish those ends?

I'm new to 'film making'... as I mostly have home videos that I want to get to inlaws in a digital (VCD) format...

But I also want to make the movies interesting, and keep the audience from becoming fast-asleep. The other goal is to get the important characters (my kids) in front of the camera, so that long distance relatives can get to know them better.

So I'm unfamiliar with what exactly you mean by:
* Pace
* Content
* Audience
* Drama
* Audio

I'd love to hear more about what you mean...

A couple of thoughts on how to use the PiP to add effects ...

Traveling... a stationary map in the overlay, and pictures of along the route in the foreground... A small PiP focuses in on the road on the map that was followed on the trip... A short 30sec to a min can condense a lot of 'moments' into a moving, interesting clip.

Using a pip with a oval shape to show a 'dream scene' or a 'imagination' peice. One main character is thinking of something, have a pip move and rapidly expand to show what they are thinking about... (ice cream cone, birthday cake, etc...)

is that what you mean?

Thanks for this opportunity J.....

"Do mean using this effect to establish those ends?" - Not necssarily.

"I'm new to 'film making'... as I mostly have home videos that I want to get to inlaws in a digital (VCD) format... -"
I agree with your wishes. However, we've all seen other's Home vids - Ask the question "Now how can I make this more interesting? What is being repeated? Do I need two minutes of little Johnny doing... whatever little J does best? How about some "cutaways" - not pans or zooms - to oohing grownups? What was the news on that day - cheerful stuff or humourus news items - on this day in blah blah Edison trademarked his first electric lamp or It was on this day that Vlad the Impaller... may be not ... think creativly! You may be new to film making, but you aint new to watching film and TV - n'est pas!

"But I also want to make the movies interesting, and keep the audience from becoming fast-asleep. The other goal is to get the important characters (my kids) in front of the camera, so that long distance relatives can get to know them better."
Yes oh yes! I'm with you on that one. I find my partner or my mother - whose got the attention span of a gnat! is also a good litmus test for interest. While she is watching my masterpiece... I'm watching her! Looking for signs of fidgeting or shuffling or asking "What does that mean ..." - Hey getting kids in front of the camera? Have you let them shoot anything themselves? Do they know what it looks like from the viewfinder? Let them take some shoots. Get them engaged in the "How To" process. Ask them what they want to be filmed doing. Is one of them - not you - "proud" of something they do? Interview them on the subject. It could be making their own favourite sandwich - I dunno sardine and jam! Y'know kids are sometimes really proud of some truly disgusting things - I know I was!

Also I look - as my art/design teacher told us - "with my eyes!" meaning looking with positive active critical regard.

So I'm unfamiliar with what exactly you mean by: (okay...)

* Pace - Does the video take the watcher along with it? Or does the vid. make people "stumble" while they are watching? How can I/you adjsut for this?

* Content - Is the stuff on screen appropriate or relevant to those watching? Is it of interest to the rest of their lives? I think it was Hitchcock who said "Its not what's on the screen that's interesting - it's who it is happening to!"

* Audience - Very similar as the above, but is a mixed audience is what you should be driving your video at? Okay a new baby has everybody glued to the screen.. or does it do it for everybody?

* Drama - Even simple things can create a dramatic effect. Watching someone make the baby's bottle. All that clattering about in the kitchen invokes an internal reaction in the viewer of "Is she/he going to drop it? Did she test for the temperature?" Simple stuff can weave enormous influence when someone is watching.

* Audio - This is my bug bear! Sound, purposefully linked to the video action, can really do it. Cutting the audio off, when an action on screen has come to a conclusion, makes a statement. I have recently cut a piece of movie where I asm being served a beer in a garden by a waitress. I had an uderlying piece of uptempo music. Here comes the waitress - she smiles she pours the beeer into the glass, I say "Thank you" and as she places it on a table she says "Bon!" (French holiday!) - The music stops a minute second before she thuds the glass down onto a glass table. Even that tiny little edit I am really proud of.

I'd love to hear more about what you mean... (oooh here I go)

"A couple of thoughts on how to use the PiP to add effects ...

Traveling... a stationary map in the overlay, and pictures of along the route in the foreground... A small PiP focuses in on the road on the map that was followed on the trip... A short 30sec to a min can condense a lot of 'moments' into a moving, interesting clip."
- Brilliant! Put up some background travel noise, trains, cars or if on land - stick the sound of a ship's fog horn in, just for being obtuse - everybody will laugh ...well I have!

Using a pip with a oval shape to show a 'dream scene' or a 'imagination' peice. One main character is thinking of something, have a pip move and rapidly expand to show what they are thinking about... (ice cream cone, birthday cake, etc...) - Brilliant! Is it relevant? Does it add to "attention" we are seeking from our audience?
Remember "Less is more". Also - just because I do this ... I can also choose not to!

"is that what you mean?" - Yes and some... Reeeeallly, truly criticise your own work. Do the same to what you see on the TV.
We've recently been getting the second series of the West Wing - brilliant. Look how all those gifted film makers keep the action going. We've also been getting "24" - with Kieffer Sutherland - terrific. However now and again I am reminded of the Thomas Crown Affair with Steve McQueen and Faye Dunaway. I am engrossed by the action and yes the techinques employed (how about that for PiP!). However, scrutinise how the Pace is kept up and how the audience is given a chance to recover, sometimes, to get the next load of tension.
My other "musts" are the travel/holiday shows that we have over here in the UK - BBC oh yes oh yes! These small cameos of travels to France, Italy, Florida etc etc are true wonderful little films in their own right The Pace and Content and editing work seemlessly. I suppose what else I am saying here is that, make video sketches using all sorts of clips. Cut and recut till you get the effect you want.
Try, even with a simple family vid., planning what you want the audience can get from looking at your film. You have an audience - involve them, thrill them, scare them. We have a truly exceptional library of visual and video expereinces to call upon. That's the other thing... our audiences, whetehr in our fronmt room, den or place of worship are really sophisticated viewers. They expect a home movie - disappoint them with something very different and worth remembering..
1. Establish Shots - House/Hospital exterior
2. Unusal angles that you might develop
3. Do some ground work by visiting the hospital and seeing what could be avialable for shooting
4. Post shoot work - ooh I missed a shot of those flowers in the Garden...
etc etc....
Okay, just a quick story. I was roped into design and paint a backdrop for a more than amateur dramatic society - Cinderella. I planned the back drop etc etc and I was pleased. However I did insist that on the openning night and subsequent evening's, that there should be no lighting on stage - it was in the round - and that the area of the play should be kept in darkness. Only the safety lights and minimal house lights were to be left on. And to have the actual stage area to be washed in a gloomy dark blue light. It's an old trick! People take their seats..sound/music comes up ... and now the set's lighting moves from dark blue to day light effect. Audience applauds and those viewing get to realise they are going to watch something that people are serious about. this is my point, audiences expectations is what drives me to want to give them something they hadn't expected or if they are expecting to get it - give it to them straight and without frills.
Sorry, I've taken up too much of your time. But hey, let's keep this going and others will add to it!
Perhaps we need to put up a "Content" or a "Audience" thread ...and so on...
As you can see I am nutz about the movies and multimedia. I have a lot learn and am always surprised at myself when I share or stumble across another ...Oh yes of course experience with this medium...
"Cherio, me ole cock sparra" (In my best Dick Van Dyke a la cokney impersonation!)
Grazie

Cool... thanks for the clarification.. I get what you mean...

That was what I was trying to do with my son's birthday... we had two camera's mine, and my sister-in-law, I ended up with 80-some minutes of raw footage... who wants to sit through that... :)

I ended up cutting it down to 14 minutes, with keeping all of the present opening footage uncut... (I'm sending each guest a copy of the VCD as a 'thank you present', and the opening presents I focus on each person's gift, and say a visual pop-up thank you)...

This is how I 'scripted' the movie (made up as I went along)....

The kids general play (playing while guests were arriving, inbetween bites of dinner..) I used the PiP to review all of the parts, and set it to upbeat music to keep people with it... the moving and panning of the PiP's show the wide variety of actions. Critique of mine... better selection of the events to highlight 'big' play scenes, or funny moments...

Next, I let my son 'film' some of his friends and adults... he accidently pressed the 'posterize' button, so I had some strange footage that I used to 'set the scene' with some pop-up titles, and location, and what the party celebrated...

Then I cut to a 'lets introduce the guest'... and had some quick, short shots of the individual kids playing again.. set to music.. one kid was dancing to some background music, but his dance ended up being on beat to other music... I used 'pop-up video' titles (do you get that on VH-1 in U.K.??? a comment gets 'pop-ed' on screen and is accompanied by a bubble popping sound... ) IT was a neat effect, and got good reaction from my family audience...

Then we got to the cake... and the happy birthday song... cut out the eating of the cake... then open presents... Critique: I could have cut this better, and taken out some of the inbetween presents footage...

Then a swipe to the pinata (my son's birthday is Cinco De Mayo... so a mexican pinata will be a constant thing for his birthday...) and then the final shot is the kids putting together a puzzle... fade to an old film effect, and run the credits... in the credits, I have all the people that attended listed so they can 'see their names'...

---------------

Was that boring enough???

I like the idea of interviewing the kids... Here in the states everyone has 'Survivor' fever.. which is really just an offshoot of 'Reality TV' that got its start on the Real World... the editing of the Real World is great with good music between 'live action', and interviews spliced in to discuss the backgrounds... probably a good concept to steal for home videos...

My main problem is getting the shots I want pre-planned... I like what you said about going back and getting some background footage... (or for traveling... you can always swipe some pictures off the web... :))

Great discussion...

Jon.