Removing print-through -Sound Forge - PC - MAGIX Community Forums Archive

Subject:Removing print-through Posted by: NY_Marsh Date:4/24/2002 7:28:46 AM I have started to archive a modest collection of tapes from radio broadcasts I produced in the late 60s. I'll be transfering from an open-reel deck I borrowed to cassette, then digitizing (first will be the smaller reels, then portions of tape on the 10.5 reels and carts). Not unexpectedly, there is print-through -- in some cases, several layers. But also, surprisingly, the original signal is very strong, probably since this is all full-track mono. It's virtually all voice, with a little background music here and there. (And considering the very neglectful way I stored the tapes for over 30 years, they are in fairly good physical condition, probably a tribute to those formulations.) I'm thinking the first "treatment" I should apply is a simple noise gate -- I'm using Sound Forge (4.0b). This would get rid of the print-through in between the spoken words I hope. Has anyone come up with a more thorough filtering or effect solution for reducing the print-through further in similar situations? TIA... Marshall
Subject:RE: Removing print-through Reply by: Iacobus Date:4/24/2002 12:31:19 PM Try checking out Noise Reduction 2.0. HTH, Iacobus
Subject:RE: Removing print-through Reply by: VU-1 Date:4/24/2002 1:33:06 PM The first thing you should do is update your version of 4.0b to 4.0e. I think DirectX compatability came along with the 4.0d update. Second) Why are you going to cassette first? You won't gain anything by doing that. Moreover, you will actually lose some fidelity that way (the cassette now contains 2nd generation audio - and probably will sound worse than the original). Your best move is to hook the reel-to-reel directly to your soundcard. Third) I don't think you'll be too happy with using a noise gate. It will sound too unnatural - especially if there is much BKG noise. Fourth) I doubt if N/R will work well either. It relies on steady noise to use as its noise model. Print-through, although it may be quiet, is probably too dynamic for the N/R to work on properly. Sounds like you got some manual volume mapping to do to me. The right tool for a job like this is Vegas. If you don't already have it, need it, want it, whatever....chech out Vegas Audio LE. Its a really scaled down version of the real deal for a whole lot less moola. Happy editing! Jeff Lowes On-Track Recording
Subject:RE: Removing print-through Reply by: rraud Date:4/27/2002 3:41:45 PM Go back in time, re-play the tapes and store them tales-out, which used to make print-through less noticable. If that's not possible, and I don't think it is, you could try some expanding. Effects/Dynamics/Graphic. You will want to experment with the line graph curve and curve points to get the desired result. You may notice a hard noise gate opening and closing, which is annoying and audible. But hey, it's worth a try. The NR won't help much with the print-through. Though it would be useful for attenuating tape hiss and any other constant din type noise. Consider yourself lucky the tapes play at all if their that old. I had to bake some of my 70s band tapes to make them playable. Good luck. PS: Why are you going to cassette first???????

Subject:Removing print-through

Posted by: NY_Marsh

Date:4/24/2002 7:28:46 AM

I have started to archive a modest collection of tapes from radio broadcasts I produced in the late 60s. I'll be transfering from an open-reel deck I borrowed to cassette, then digitizing (first will be the smaller reels, then portions of tape on the 10.5 reels and carts).

Not unexpectedly, there is print-through -- in some cases, several layers. But also, surprisingly, the original signal is very strong, probably since this is all full-track mono. It's virtually all voice, with a little background music here and there. (And considering the very neglectful way I stored the tapes for over 30 years, they are in fairly good physical condition, probably a tribute to those formulations.)

I'm thinking the first "treatment" I should apply is a simple noise gate -- I'm using Sound Forge (4.0b). This would get rid of the print-through in between the spoken words I hope.

Has anyone come up with a more thorough filtering or effect solution for reducing the print-through further in similar situations?

TIA...

Marshall

Subject:RE: Removing print-through

Reply by: Iacobus

Date:4/24/2002 12:31:19 PM

Try checking out Noise Reduction 2.0.

HTH,
Iacobus

Subject:RE: Removing print-through

Reply by: VU-1

Date:4/24/2002 1:33:06 PM

The first thing you should do is update your version of 4.0b to 4.0e. I think DirectX compatability came along with the 4.0d update.

Second) Why are you going to cassette first? You won't gain anything by doing that. Moreover, you will actually lose some fidelity that way (the cassette now contains 2nd generation audio - and probably will sound worse than the original). Your best move is to hook the reel-to-reel directly to your soundcard.

Third) I don't think you'll be too happy with using a noise gate. It will sound too unnatural - especially if there is much BKG noise.

Fourth) I doubt if N/R will work well either. It relies on steady noise to use as its noise model. Print-through, although it may be quiet, is probably too dynamic for the N/R to work on properly.

Sounds like you got some manual volume mapping to do to me. The right tool for a job like this is Vegas. If you don't already have it, need it, want it, whatever....chech out Vegas Audio LE. Its a really scaled down version of the real deal for a whole lot less moola.

Happy editing!
Jeff Lowes
On-Track Recording

Subject:RE: Removing print-through

Reply by: rraud

Date:4/27/2002 3:41:45 PM

Go back in time, re-play the tapes and store them tales-out, which used to make print-through less noticable. If that's not possible, and I don't think it is, you could try some expanding. Effects/Dynamics/Graphic. You will want to experment with the line graph curve and curve points to get the desired result. You may notice a hard noise gate opening and closing, which is annoying and audible. But hey, it's worth a try.
The NR won't help much with the print-through. Though it would be useful for attenuating tape hiss and any other constant din type noise.
Consider yourself lucky the tapes play at all if their that old. I had to bake some of my 70s band tapes to make them playable.
Good luck.
PS: Why are you going to cassette first???????