using cover songs for sync

Randy Brown wrote on 7/28/2013, 4:51 PM
I'm making a doc for an individual wanting to use Christian cover songs...I told her they would still need to be licensed and she said...

"Most of the instrumentals were recording at a home studio with a keyboard. All of the arrangements came from a free site and based on my research, they can be used (since they are advertised as free) and it falls under the fair-use guidelines."

If this isn't true is there a website that would state so?
Thanks,
Randy

Comments

videoITguy wrote on 7/28/2013, 5:15 PM
You are crossing a sticky wicket if you live in the USA and you distribute in the USA.
You are always best off to record strictly with a group for the purpose of your own release of video. Everyone signs off and you are done.
If you do not do this -you run the risk of being in the poorhouse and maybe even worse for the rest of your life...it's not worth it, ever!

Consider that you have an unknown (to you) upload of your sync to the web and then what are you goin' a say? - who is goin' to copy ya?, etc. NOT worth it!
DavidMcKnight wrote on 7/28/2013, 5:44 PM
Regardless if they are singing *in* the video or you sync your own recording *to* the video, you need a publishing license.
musicvid10 wrote on 7/28/2013, 5:57 PM
Don't speculate, or take someone's word for it.
Simplest (and safest) thing to do is just ask; the very worst they can do is say "no".
JackW wrote on 7/28/2013, 6:28 PM
If the songs are in the Public Domain (see http://www.pdinfo.com/), which is music in the US published as sheet music before 1922 and are being played by your client on her home musical instruments and sung by her friends, you're almost certainly free to use the material. You'll need to do due diligence to be sure, however.

Jack
Randy Brown wrote on 7/29/2013, 8:20 AM
Thanks very much guys, after your response she is going to ask an attorney.
Butch Moore wrote on 7/29/2013, 10:36 AM
An extreme exaggeration: "A lawyer told me once that 'unless you're sitting in your bathroom alone, wearing headphones and listening to a CD that you bought and paid for...you need a license!" Grossly overstated, but in many respects true...
musicvid10 wrote on 7/29/2013, 11:24 AM
"Thanks very much guys, after your response she is going to ask an attorney."

I've been using and producing covers legally for over forty years, and I can almost promise that is the wrong thing to do.

-- A lawyer can't grant her permission to use the song.
-- A lawyer will only give the appearance of intimidating the publisher, almost certainly guaranteeing a "no way" response from them.

Your friend needs to contact the publisher / owner directly, not through a lawyer. Not only will the impression of sincerity be more credible, but by explaining the intended use, along with a sample if requested, will as often as not get her a positive response, as long as the quality and use context meets their standards.

I see this time and time again: people have such an unnatural fear of rejection, they often do exactly the wrong thing, guaranteeing guess what . . . rejection, and possibly worse.

Once again, just ask.
Jumping through a bunch of ridiculous hoops won't get you any better response from the publisher, it'll just cost you more. Above all, remember they are people, and will respond predictably to lawyers, "fair use" nonsense, and other ploys to get around the rules.
videoITguy wrote on 7/29/2013, 11:44 AM
Mv10 - your points are well taken. BUT there is a fundamental missing point in your narrative. You need to know who to ask first. This point is made over and over in discussions of this type and has been covered ad nauseam in this forum over the years.

WHO do you ask FIRST? Over the last 3 years I have been working for a cover of a project with country star Jason Aldean. Now I have asked him person to person, but we would both be fools if we just shook hands and said 'done deal'. It is a whole lot more complicated than that.

Yes, ask first of someone, then research each avenue that leads towards to eventual legal rights.
vtxrocketeer wrote on 7/29/2013, 11:49 AM
Forgot to include a little detail: ask an attorney to do what exactly? Provide advice? Sure, not a bad idea. Contact a publisher? Probably a waste of time and effort, as musicvid noted.

Publishers are in the business of making money from licenses, among other things. I have failed to find one, just even one, who did not have dedicated, kind, helpful, and responsive personnel to receive and act upon requests for obtaining licenses. Many have web portals for submitting such requests, whereas others publish e-mail address(es) for sending the same. Most even have phone numbers with live human beings who will pick up the phone. In fact, if your friend just tells them what she wants to do, a publisher will tell her what kind of license(s) she needs to obtain from them, e.g., master, sync, etc.

HTH.
musicvid10 wrote on 7/29/2013, 12:00 PM
VITG,
The publisher first, who will in turn put you in contact with the owner, if a separate collaborative decision is necessary and agreed upon. In the case of the OP, the publisher and owner may very well be the same entity.

Asking the artist / composer and agreeing with a handshake is usually not correct procedure, as they have often signed over exclusive or limited licensure rights to a publisher, and are bound by their contract.

That is the order of contact; I'm accustomed to it, but see I should have mentioned it.

The publisher's name is printed on every legal copy of a song or recording without exception.
Randy Brown wrote on 7/29/2013, 1:00 PM
"Forgot to include a little detail: ask an attorney to do what exactly? Provide advice? Sure, not a bad idea."
Yes, she was going to just ask for advice but I doubt her friend is an entertainment lawyer so he probably doesn't even know the answer.
It is a time sensitive subject matter and I'm working on a shoestring budget so I've basically told them they will be taking all responsibility as I'm not even going to list myself in the credits....what's really strange is I have a bunch of music cues I wrote that would work better than fading in and out of these Muzak type songs.
Thanks very much everyone,
Randy
larry-peter wrote on 7/29/2013, 1:03 PM
I have found that in the case of a low-budget documentary, music rights can be surprisingly cheap if you're not going after a current hit song. If you have contact information for the publisher and the artist, I would suggest contacting both (cc so both parties know the other is being contacted) telling them the usage in mind, the budget of your documentary and offering a small fee. I usually start at $100. If your project isn't going to end up on NatGeo or at Sundance, and is using the material in a respectful way, you may be pleasantly surprised.

If anyone tells you that using a song (not in public domain) in a sound track can ever be "fair use" that is a big red flag. Fair use can sometimes be applied when you ASK for use of media and permission is denied, but I'm not aware of that ever happening with music, except in cases of use in parody.
videoITguy wrote on 7/29/2013, 1:06 PM
When you do as you intend in your last post, just to let you know a person who does the sync ( i.e., puts a video and audio together on the timeline in an NLE and renders out ) is most certainly legally responsible. So go ahead and add your name to the credits under an alias ? HA! YOU are legally responsible in every way possible UNLESS you don't commit the sync.
DavidMcKnight wrote on 7/29/2013, 2:22 PM
This comes up on the forum from time to time.
Have a look at this 10-year old post... Hopefully it will answer some of your questions.
farss wrote on 7/29/2013, 4:02 PM
Randy Brown said:

[I]"'m making a doc for an individual"[/I]

So they're the executive producer?

[I]"If this isn't true is there a website that would state so?"[/I]

Look up the meaning of the word "warrant". If you want to get a legal involved simply ask them to explain what the word means and ask them to draw up a boilerplate contract that includes a warranty from the executive producer.

What the warranty relates to is irrelevant.

Bob.