SOT: Blackmagic Intensity

Former user wrote on 2/9/2013, 5:08 PM

What you quoted doesn't say anything about SD/DV, it just says you low cost consumer camera. Which can be HD. I think what they are saying is if you capture straight from the camera rather than record to the internal storage, that some cameras will put out an uncompressed signal.

I believe if you have a camera with HDMI outputs and record that output with a live camera shot, it is uncompressed.

full quote:

"Most consumer video cameras compress HD video to fit longer recordings on to tape and discs. For video editing compressed media needs to be decoded to play back each frame of video and this puts additional strain on your computer's CPU and limits real time editing effects. Capturing directly with Intensity bypasses camera compression by recording directly from the camera's image sensor, so a low cost consumer camera can be used to capture full HD resolution video in broadcast quality!"

Dave T2

videoITguy wrote on 2/9/2013, 5:38 PM

I am fully acquainted with the engineers at BlackMagic, and I fully support their product line for broadcasting. HOWEVER, what you have taken slightly out of context, and misinterpreted - is something that the BlackMagic people hand over to marketing hypes. In case you did not know this...marketing type hype people are merely employed contractors hired to create advertising and buzz. Do TAKE everything those people say with a grain of salt, please.

As others point out, some consumer (not true either - some PROSUMER) cameras do allow you to capture off the camera head a signal which has not been altered by compression artifacts - as long as you yourself choose to record uncompressed. Make sure you have a lot of capacity and RAID drive config at the highest speed and integrity to do this. In fact, other artifacts can be introduced by Black Magic choices of electronics - so what you get??? you ask???

The improvement in capture over the 8bit compressed streams that you can get off the file based media, and in some instances even off firewire transfer from tape in the best cameras is MARGINAL!

[r]Evolution wrote on 2/9/2013, 5:55 PM

Good Point: a Low Cost Consumer Camera can be either SD or HD.
(I guess I just read my situation into it as I have access to many affordable SD/DV shooters but myself shoot & deliver HD)

hmmm... If I were shooting HD (as I do) I wouldn't care to use any middle device during capture but would rather continue my current method of Transcoding before the edit... unless I could see that 'Uncompressed Signal' for comparison.

My camera does have an HDMI which gives a signal during recording but I can't see hooking up the BMD Intensity in the field then to a recorder but more-so in the edit bay during capture. Sounds promising but, even after viewing their connection diagrams, I still can't picture it's intended usage as described by DaveT2 above. Although I do see mention of 'Live Streaming'. I was thinking that was just an option because of the nature of the device and not it's sole purpose.

Being able to Monitor HD is a nice feature.
Capturing Video Gameplay may be cool for some.
HD quality Live-Streaming for those that live-stream.

- Does it capture to a BlackMagic CoDec or are the resulting files truly UnCompressed with no CoDec?
________
Thank you videoITguy for the response of the quality difference being Marginal.

John_Cline wrote on 2/9/2013, 6:08 PM

The live HDMI output from most HDV camcorders is 4:2:2 8-bit uncompressed with uncompressed audio. I have used the Blackmagic Intensity in conjunction with the Cineform codec to capture live output from the camcorder, it looks [i]significantly[/] better than the 25Mbps 4:2:0 MPEG2 recorded to tape and transferred after the fact, particularly in regard to motion artifacts. I replaced this HDV setup several years ago and have been using HD-SDI instead (also uncompressed 4:2:2) but still encoding to the Cineform codec in real-time. The Cineform's 4:2:2 10-bit video can then be processed without totally falling apart better than starting with 4:2:0 video.

Baron Oz wrote on 2/9/2013, 10:16 PM

I use a Panasonic HVX-500 with the 4:2:2 HD/SDI feed going to a Black Magic Card for use in green screen composites. As has been pointed out, you do need fast drives in a RAID array to capture the data, and loads of space. However, the results are worth it. No artifacts and high bandwidth result in beautiful keys and excellent composites. This is a studio application, I don't think I would try this in the field without someone to wrangle the capture computer and the associated data.

John_Cline wrote on 2/9/2013, 10:44 PM

Stock, the Intensity can capture uncompressed YUV or using Motion JPEG (MJPEG) at a much lower data rate (although still at 4:2:2.) Uncompressed HD requires a sustained data rates of at least 120 megabytes per second. Capturing with the Cineform codec requires purchasing the codec separately which costs more than the Intensity. However, using the Cineform codec doesn't require a high speed RAID array and while not uncompressed, it it visually lossless.

jim cowan wrote on 2/10/2013, 11:26 AM

Hi John,
If you don't mind a couple of questions.
Which Cineform product are you using?
Which OS (Win 7?)
Which CPU?

I've run the BMIP on linux with an FM1/A3650 using the MJPEG. Haven't
had the time yet to really check it vs HDV but it is 3 to 4 x bigger. Run out to
a RAID 1 with 5400rpm notebook drives.

thanks
jim

videoITguy wrote on 2/10/2013, 1:44 PM

Cineform in its generic encode is now a legacy product -known as the Neoscene. It can be bought, I believe, from third-party resellers, but Cineform site does not support direct purchase. They of course will continue to license, and reactivate legacy products.

Cineform can be bought as the pro package for $299 and it's a good package with powerful color grading added in.

Decoders for Cineform are now free.

My pref for running Cineform in VegasPro is on all Versions of 8 and 9 - I don't bother with 10,11,0r 12. The OS preferred is Windows XP SP3 or Windows 7 all versions. You do not need to have raid drives to encode/decode Cineform as a codec, because it is a very efficient process. However, depending on the choice of encode level, you could require extremely high-capacity harddrive space. If you stick with medium encode level you can work with 1 or 2 terabytes for handling a lot of projects easily.

jim cowan wrote on 2/11/2013, 9:27 AM

Hi,
Yes, I know that Cineform is available, I was curious as to the
performance John was having with it. Before spending the money
I'd like to have an idea of whether 3 BM Intensity Pros and Cineform doing
the video processing would work in 1 PC.

My linux testing on a fairly weak machine with BM's s/w MediaExpress
doing MJPEG looked promising. Just trying to get some more confirmation
of the Cineform overhead. Later this month if I have time I'll download
the Cineform package for a trial, move my BMIP from the linux to a Windows7
I7 machine an test it.

thanks
jim

[r]Evolution wrote on 2/11/2013, 11:08 AM

hmmm... so far, sounds like the BMD Intensity would NOT be a good option for me as most of my shooting & capturing is out in the field and NOT in the studio.

To piggyback on the aforementioned Cineform CoDec - Would Cineform Studio (free) be a viable option for Transcoding to the Cineform CoDec for editing?
I've been transcoding to a high bit-rate MPEG2.

videoITguy wrote on 2/11/2013, 1:29 PM

R-Evolution: You still have not been clear about what your process and your goal might be. At one point I thought you were talking live streaming from a field location. In look at your specs - you appear to be a Firewire based customer /editor. These are all confusing and perhaps irrelevan to BlackMagic quest. Suggest you start over.

As far as free Studio- have not used it - and would be careful if you are going to use in VegasPro10-12 environs.
Cineform is designed to be an editing intermediate- you have not stated the case for using such a product.

So your quest ? Livestreaming in the field? OR???

[r]Evolution wrote on 2/11/2013, 9:08 PM

Please do not read more into it by looking at my listed specs as I am not always on that box. I am freelance so I may be using a PC or Mac w/ Vegas, Premiere, Avid, FCP, or any combination of them all, plus some. Just depends on how/where the client is comfortable allowing me to work.

I shoot AVCHD but have access to more-so affordable and talented SD/DV shooters. This would increase my profit margin or bring me within budget to land various jobs. When I read... "so a low cost consumer camera can be used to capture full HD resolution video in broadcast quality!" I was thinking this would be a way to shoot SD/DV yet deliver a higher quality, HD resolution product at 1/2 the production cost (after initial buy in). Also hoping this would allow me to better mix/camouflage my mixture of HD/SD multicam.

Current Process:
Transcode from .MTS to 30Mbs MPEG2 using AME. gonna try/compare Cineform CoDec
Edit, Composite, etc.
Export to various formats for delivery.

Quest:
Broadcast Quality SD/DV at HD Resolution.
Smooth/Real-Time editing experience.

(No desire for Live-Streaming)

John_Cline wrote on 2/11/2013, 10:44 PM

Neither the legacy Neoscene nor the free Cineform Studio codec from GoPro can be used for real-time capture. I am using the Cineform Studio Premium package that includes HDLink, their capture and conversion utility. It retails for $299. I am using it under Win7 on an Intel 980x hex-core box. I have also successfully used it on a small Shuttle D-10 "cube" machine with a 3.2Ghz Core2 Duo processor.

I'm guessing that it would also work using the USB 3.0 version of the Intensity with a moderately powerful USB 3.0-equipped laptop.

bsuratt wrote on 2/12/2013, 12:37 AM

Take a look at the Black Magic Intensity Shuttle for field work. This battery operated recorder uses HDMI from camera and records to SSD. I bought one when my tape mechanism went bad on my Sony HDV camera. Can record uncompressed to Apple Pro Res (or compressed to Avid DNX.. Codec). Video looks really good. Pretty economical too!

Marton wrote on 2/12/2013, 7:30 AM

would be good, eliminating the laptop!
Only shuttle direct connected to ssd :-)

[r]Evolution wrote on 2/12/2013, 7:32 AM

Posted by: bsuratt Wait... What?

Do you mean the HyperDeck Shuttle SSD Field Recorder?

videoITguy wrote on 2/12/2013, 8:12 AM

Contrary to earlier comment by John Cline, legacy Neoscene can be used to capture - in fact I use it exclusively for true 24P capture exclusively for producition to Blu-ray.

Regardless of that- what the Cineform codec is intended for - is the processing NLE intermediate step. As in Layers, compositing, working with nesting etc within the workflow, etc.

The Black Magic Hyperdeck, is a field instrument, thru HDMI for capture- in all practicality to the ProRes Codec--...works with hi-quality SSD drives. Very tempermental, and many people waste their good money on SSD drives that go belly-up with it' use. But when it works, it is fantastic. This is the field capture side of the workflow. It can take a good camera head signal and keep it fairly pristine to insert in the workflow. Note, as we indicated earlier in this thread, few cameras can truly deliver off the head of the camera electronics, while many consumer cameras really just offer signal that is pre-processed for delivery down to compressed media within the camera.

[r]Evolution wrote on 2/13/2013, 7:46 AM

The Atomos line looks like a more viable Field Option (at a much higher price point)
http://www.atomos.com

bsuratt wrote on 2/14/2013, 12:37 AM

I have not had any problems with SSD drives in my Hyperdeck. BlackMagic is very specific about which SSD drives are compatible (ie fast enough for uncompressed). I suspect some are trying drives which are not on approved list and are having problems.

My only concern is the internal battery life is just under one hour. Need to carry plug-in 12v external battery if more time needed.

Otherwise a lot of bang for the buck!