Vegas11/CineForm black frames -- positive news.

David Newman wrote on 1/6/2012, 3:02 PM

We have been hearing reports of random black frames with CineForm files under Vegas 11, and have been working closely with Sony's engineering team to help resolve it. We have high confidence that we have found a solution, and certainly now understand why such a failure was more commonly reported with CineForm files. We will including this patch within all our products in the next official release (few weeks away), but for those effected now please try the new decoder downloads linked below.

Here is a zip file of the two CineForm decoders Vegas uses 32/64-bit (10-day link):
[url=http://software.gopro.com.s3.amazonaws.com/beta/NewDecoder762b618.zip?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJ2OHNE77HOUYJB6A&Expires=1326735777&Signature=A1M70oftuQFq5KR1uh0Trdwz1lU%3D]

Close any application that might be using CineForm files.
Unzip and copy over the older decoders here:
C:\Program Files (x86)\CineForm\Tools (64-bit systems)
or
C:\Program Files\CineForm\Tools (32-bit systems.)

The two files are CFHDDecoder.dll and CFHDDecoder64.dll and they will have a Jan 5th, 2012 build date. If the DLLs are in use (can't copy over them) rename them like to CFHDDecoderOld.dll and now the new files can be copied.

Please report back your findings.

Thank you,
David Newman
CineForm/GoPro

Comments

John_Cline wrote on 1/6/2012, 3:55 PM

Thanks, David!

TheRhino wrote on 1/6/2012, 6:30 PM

Thanks for working on this!

We also have trouble when Vegas is working with the Blackmagic Motion-JPEG codec. The video simply renders as black or Vegas encounters an error and stops rendering. We are willing to mostly transcode to Cineform if this works.

David Newman wrote on 1/6/2012, 7:26 PM

It was confusing the various reports like yours of other codecs having issues, but we discovered a problem unique to us and believe we have fixed it. I look forward to the feedback.

Thank you,
David Newman

Dan Sherman wrote on 1/7/2012, 8:29 AM

I use Raylight Ultra.
Is there a chance it could be the culprit in my case.

David Newman wrote on 1/7/2012, 11:04 AM

The bug we found will not impact any other codec. CineForm and Sony co-developed a mechanism to enable the frame cache to understand Active Metedata (color/3D/framing corrections used by CineForm First Light.) The bug was in that unique mechanism, this is why it impacted no other NLE. Now that this works correctly it will make Vegas the best NLE to use with CineForm files.

Marc S wrote on 1/7/2012, 1:32 PM

David,

Thanks for the update. A couple of questions:

1. Will this patch help Vegas 10 users who also have black frame issues?
2. Will it fix the problem with Vegas rendered Cineform files not working properly when used in After Effects (black levels jumping 7.5IRE)?

Thanks, Marc

David Newman wrote on 1/7/2012, 4:53 PM

1. I don't know about Vegas 10, try it.

2. Vegas has a black level behavior that is unique, we encode what we are sent.

Jøran Toresen wrote on 1/7/2012, 5:32 PM

David said: "2. Vegas has a black level behavior that is unique, we encode what we are sent."

Can you explain this?

Jøran

David Newman wrote on 1/7/2012, 5:41 PM

Vegas uses a grey black level for display (8-bit RGB 16,16,16), this is not very common. FCP, Premiere, AVID etc, display black at 0,0,0, even if the internal black representation is 7.5IRE or equivalent. This causes user issues if they are not aware, when switch between NLEs and tools, but it is not a codec issue..

Jøran Toresen wrote on 1/7/2012, 5:58 PM

Thank you David.

Do you know why SCS have implemented this “feature”? And do you know if SCS have plans to change this behaviour in Vegas?

Jøran

LoTN wrote on 1/7/2012, 6:11 PM

SCS has implemented nothing.

There is absolutely no smart code around this and the unsuspecting user can easily fall into what I would call the "Vegas levels mess"

With unfamiliar codec you have to run the scopes and test encoding/decoding with test patterns.

It's here since Vegas infancy. The fact that it still sits here is something I really can't get...

Marc S wrote on 1/8/2012, 2:03 AM

Joran,

Basically if you render a cineform file out of Vegas and bring it into After Effects (for example) what used to be black will now jump about 7.5 IRE higher. The exception is if you smart render a cineform file out of Vegas (where no rendering actually takes place). In that case black levels will be proper in After Effects. What sucks is that your fine if you stay in Vegas with the rendered files but it makes going back and forth between other programs and Vegas impossible. I and others tried to explain the issue to Sony but it does not look like they plan on fixing it.

johnmeyer wrote on 1/18/2012, 2:06 PM

I have emailed Dave, but in case he is too busy to respond, does anyone have a link to these two files? The link given in the first post in this thread is no longer valid.

R0cky wrote on 1/18/2012, 3:18 PM

Cineform announced the release today. You should be able to get it there.
rocky

amendegw wrote on 1/18/2012, 4:41 PM

Can you give us a URL? I just went to the GoPro site and the version for download appears to be: 1.1.0.72 - same as the version I downloaded last October.

...Jerry

David Newman wrote on 1/18/2012, 5:30 PM

The link above for the new Decoders is refreshed here:
http://software.gopro.com.s3.amazonaws.com/beta/NewDecoder762b618.zip?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJ2OHNE77HOUYJB6A&Expires=1328657233&Signature=JmfG/Q2vwWeyx/2QlBak7hv%2B3Cw%3D

If you install the new CineForm Studio Premium or Professional you have this new component. New versions of NewScene and the free GoPro CineForm Studio will be out it about a week. We also intend to revise the old NeoPlayer for a decoder only install.

johnmeyer wrote on 1/18/2012, 6:45 PM

Many thanks, Dave!

david-ruby wrote on 1/18/2012, 7:19 PM

I get an error when trying to get this zip file. Looks like I missed the file eh?

David Newman wrote on 1/18/2012, 9:23 PM

I have confirmed the link works.

VanLazarus wrote on 1/23/2012, 2:43 AM

Your directions about where to place the patched dll is incorrect for me.

I don't have a Cineform directory in the Program Files directory (64 bit).
I have both DLLs in a Cineform directory in the Program Files (x86) (32 bit) directory.

So I copied the files there.

Rendering a project shortly and praying for no black Cineform clips.

david-ruby wrote on 1/23/2012, 9:09 AM

Did as you said but still get random cineform blackouts on timeline. Even with new update from veg. ??

David Newman wrote on 1/23/2012, 4:57 PM

David17,

I expect you are still not running the new stuff, or you have a different issue, as the fault was clearly understood and addressed. Sometime file locks prevent the newer components from being installed. So reboot, install the new decoders, install the new Vegas (if you haven't ready) and it should be fine.

amendegw wrote on 2/5/2012, 9:01 AM

David Newman said on 01/18/2012, "New versions of NewScene and the free GoPro CineForm Studio will be out it about a week."Is this just a delay or is there a special place to get this update? The free download version is still 1.1.0.72 (same as last October).

...Jerry

diverG wrote on 2/5/2012, 10:30 AM

@David Newman

Neoscene: Is there to be a later version than 554? I understood from Jake Segrave that all development had ceased.

Geoff C