Prosumer Camera Recommendations

TomG wrote on 11/28/2011, 11:09 AM
Hello everyone,

I have been monitoring this forum since 2003 and have learned a great deal from the experts on this forum. With that in mind, I am at that point in life where I would like to purchase a good prosumer camera. We are travelling more and more since we have been retired for 10 years now and I really enjoy using Vegas Pro to create a documentary of our travels. Here are my specifications:

1. Under $1,500
2. Digital, hi-def camera.
3. Portable (doesn't require a lot of space while travelling)
4. Best lens possible.
5. Good for both exterior shooting and interior (low-light) shooting
6. Best value for the money (I guess that goes without saying)

Thank you for any advice/suggestions you would be so kind to make.

Have a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

TomG

Comments

UlfLaursen wrote on 11/28/2011, 12:05 PM
Canon HF-G10
richard-amirault wrote on 11/28/2011, 12:49 PM
I'd be willing to bet that SOME folks would say that you won't get *any* "prosumer" camera for $1500.

Do you currently now shoot in HD?

If so, do you want to continue with the same format or are you willing to change?

If not, will your computer be able to handle the type of HD that you choose?

RE: #2 Digital/hi-def camera
I'm also pretty sure that there are no *analog* hi-def cameras out there .. so the "digital" part of your requirement is moot ... unless you meant "tapeless" (just because a camcorder uses tape does not automatically make it analog)
amendegw wrote on 11/28/2011, 12:50 PM
Here's a cut-and-paste of a reply I made in the following thread: HD camera recommendations?

I have Panasonic TM700 (current model is the TM900). While I have had great luck with Canons, I like the TM700 at the price your price point because it will shoot in 1080 60p, and has 3 sensors.

Panasonic TM700 Likes:
..o Great Picture quality, particularly at 1920x1080 60p.
..o Light and easy to "run-and-gun"
..o Great optical stabilizer. Used in conjunction with Mercalli V2 it can be mistaken for tripod mounted.
..o It has a focus ring.
..o One of the few 3 sensor consumer cameras
..o I like the Zebras & Manual focus assist
..o It has a viewfinder.
..o Records to SDHC cards

Panasonic TM700 Dislikes:
..o Image Quality of viewfinder and LCD is not great
..o Manual menu settings are not intuitive to my thought process.
..o I'd like more hardware knobs & switches rather than software based controls.
..o Mic picks up slight fan noise.
..o Can't switch mic to stereo from 5.1 in the "auto" mode.
..o And probably my biggest "issue" is that the auto WB & exposure is slow to respond

Here as short test video (downrezed from 1920x1080 60p to 960x540 30p: Peacock the Sequel. fwiw, all footage in this vid was handheld - stabilized with the TM700's excellent optical stabilzer and further processed with Mercalli V2 - comparable to tripod (at least to my eyes).

Here's some source footage 1920x1080 60p: parrots.zip

...Jerry

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TheDingo wrote on 11/28/2011, 3:24 PM
You can't buy a used prosumer HD camera for $1,500. Most new HD prosumer cameras are priced in the $2,500 - $7,500 range.

...But you can buy a used Panasonic HMC-150 HD camera for about $2,000. ( the HMC-150 is being replaced by the Panasonic AC-130 camera which costs almost $4,000 new )

Otherwise, the Panasonic TM-900 ( $900 ) and Canon G10 ( $1,400 ) consumer cameras produce a very nice image, and are fairly good in low-light conditions, but nowhere near as good as the bigger/heavier prosumer cameras.
AGB Productions wrote on 11/28/2011, 3:28 PM
A couple of years ago, we made the decision to record sound with external devices (iRiver i290 series, Zoom H-1, Zoom H-4, Zoom H4N), sync the audio using Vegas, and use a camera's XLR inputs only when recording directly from a wired microphone for interviews.

We haven't been plagued with RF interference (wireless mic issue, you never know) nor with running hundreds of feet of XLR cables. We haven't looked back.

Consequently we've been able to retain a couple of good Sony AX-2000 AVCHD cameras (with XLR inputs) and purchase some inexpensive consumer-grade Canon 1920x1080 AVCHD cameras that can be scattered around the venue (for staring "B" shots). Even if we only use five seconds from a staring camera, it is worth it in the final production.

You have to be skilled in sound sync'ing, but we're used to it, including all those dumb laws of physics (sound traveling at ~1100 ft/sec at sea level, that may require advancing or retarding a sound track a frame or two).

Sometimes cheaper can be better. You don't need all the bells and whistles on every camera.
farss wrote on 11/28/2011, 3:54 PM
Perhaps a bit out of your price range and not what I'd truly call a "prosummer" camera but still it has all the goods and I have had one in my hands and I was VERY impressed with the feel of the camera and I've been a Sony man for as long as I've been in this game.

Take a look at the Canon XA10. It ticks all the boxes. You can remove the audio bridge for when you don't need the balanced audoi inputs and you retain the option for when you do need it without having to use extra boxes and worry about cables failing anymore than you should.

And for the love of all that you hold dear do not skimp on a GOOD tripod. A good one will last long enough to become a family heirloom. Cameras come and go, good tripods never fade away.

Bob.

Guy S. wrote on 11/28/2011, 4:04 PM
For the type of work that you intend to do, consider a HDSLR. We switched from video cameras to HDSLRs a few years ago and I'd never go back. I primarily use Panasonic due to their ability to auto-focus and shoot unlimited length clips, but Canon and possibly Sony (which now has the best video AF available and can shoot 30min clips) may be better choices for your work. Your lens choices - and creative possibilities - would be wide open.

FYI, I use vintage Nikon glass on my Panasonic via a $30 lens adapter. Also, the reason I am recommending against Panasonic is due to a very unsatisfactory service experience. I'd stick with a camera company vs. a consumer electronics company - different mentality when it comes to service.
Andy_L wrote on 11/28/2011, 4:58 PM
If you need autofocus (ie, moving subjects), I'll second the XA10 as a nice choice in your price range. If you don't need autofocus, I almost can't imagine why anyone would shoot with anything other than a 5D... :)
logiquem wrote on 11/28/2011, 6:49 PM
I would certainly get a Panasonic GH2 with VARIO PZ, 14 – 42 mm.

Bastien
JasonATL wrote on 11/28/2011, 7:23 PM
I'll echo that you should consider an HDSLR.

As others have said in different ways here, the camera is one element of the video and audio acquisition. The other parts are the sounds and how you shoot the video. The tripod recommendation above is great advice, as a consumer camera on a tripod will usually look a lot better than a pro camera in the hands of someone who doesn't keep it steady or use good technique (I'm still learning this myself!).

Here's where the DSLR comes in. Good lenses (or glass) will, like Bob's good tripod, outlast the camera by years and perhaps decades. You'll hand these down or sell them on the used market if you take good care of them. The idea is to upgrade your outfit through time with investments in equipment. New technology in the cameras will come along - and you can upgrade the camera bodies without having to throw out the other good equipment.

A decent HD video-capable DSLR camera, such as the Canon EOS T2i or T3i; Sony A33, A65 or NEX-5N can be had for between $500 to $800. My wife and I have the Canon EOS T2i and T3i and Sony A33. We only recently acquired the T3i and A33. For 4 years, I've also had a more expensive (by nearly 10x!) Sony EX1. For your budget of $1500, you could get, for example, a Canon T2i and a decent zoom, their very good (and INEXPENSIVE) 50mm lens ($100 - I'm not kidding), and a good monopod or tripod - perhaps even more.

I won't say that the video from the HDSLR is always as good as the EX1. It isn't. But, the DSLR looks just as good, if not better than the EX1 in many cases. For example, in low light, the Canon DSLR's video look better to me. Compared to $1500 cameras, I'm willing to bet that a $1500 DSLR setup beats the video camera a strong majority of the time. But, this is just my opinion and others might disagree.

One downside, as has been pointed out, is that many HDSLR's have limited time recording. If this is for documenting your own travel (and you hang out here in an NLE forum), you probably will be shooting short snippets, only to edit them together later and likely won't be shooting a long-running event. I've found that my own videos are much more interesting if the shots are shorter than 30 seconds or so (depending, of course, on subject matter). On the other hand, if you are shooting something that takes 30 minutes and you can't miss a second of it, then DSLR's might not be for you.

Some knock the "handheld" capability of DSLR's. I've had good experiences with mine. The Sony DSLR's have a stabilizer in the camera, which was surprisingly very effective when I used it at a baseball game this past summer. You can get lenses with stabilization in them for the Canon's, and I've seen handheld video that was very pleasing (shot by others). For travel, take along a light monopod (very portable) or tripod (a little less portable and a bit more cumbersome to set up). Like Bob, I'd recommend the mono- or tripod even if you buy a video traditional camera!

Lack of autofocus is perhaps the bigger issue. The Sony DSLR's are okay at the live autofocus, but still not like a real video camera in my experience. The Canon's just aren't there. But, even with my EX1, I find myself using manual focus most of the time anyway. Again, you must weight this and its importance to you.

One side benefit of DSLR's: they aren't as intimidating to people when you are using them. Some prosumer cameras, with their bigger form or audio decks, sometimes draw attention to themselves (kids ask my wife if they're going to be on the news whenever she uses the EX1 at my daughter's school events). The only reaction I've seen from people from a DSLR is a surprised, "are you shooting video, too?" Now that I think about it, a downside could be that people might stop and pose, waiting for a still picture to be shot!

Oh, and with the HDSLR, you have a good still camera for your travel photos, too. 2-in-1.

As you can probably tell, if it were my $1500...
video777 wrote on 11/29/2011, 1:16 AM
I did a lot of research and decided to not spend several thousand dollars on what might arguably be called "Prosumer" and instead opted for the Panasonic TM900. I must say it has exceeded my expectations. We just recorded a magic show which had plent of low-light moments and it did a very nice job. Outside the colors and quality are incredible. It's as if you are looking out a really clean window. It really is just like you are there. Read the reviews here: http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-HDC-TM900K-Compatible-Camcorder-Internal/dp/B004I43MJU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1322550757&sr=8-1. I did end up buying it from Amazon as it was about the best price around, plus I know they will take care of me. The quality of this camera blew away my $3,500 Canon XL2 (obviously not HD but still...). Highly recommend.
logiquem wrote on 11/29/2011, 7:18 AM
--One downside, as has been pointed out, is that many HDSLR's have limited time recording.

--Lack of autofocus is perhaps the bigger issue.

2 more reasons to go for a GH2...

Bastien
TomG wrote on 11/30/2011, 6:58 AM
Thank you for all the great responses.

Maybe I wasn't using the term "prosumer" correctly. I consider myself an avid hobbyist who appreciates the quality of professional equimpment and the people who use that type of equipment. But I surly don't need to be concerned about many of the things many of you have to be concerned about such as producing material for network or widespread distribution.

I guess what it all boils down to is being able to capture the image of what the mind sees (via the eye), refine that image and make it perfect through editing, and share that image with the people you love.

I love doing this and my only real constraint is the amount of money I have in order to do this. But I do have the time and energy to give it my best shot.

So thanks again for all the great advice and I will begin researching it immediately.

TomG

Laurence wrote on 11/30/2011, 8:08 AM
A second vote here for the Panasonic GH2, which has most of the advantages of DSLR without the disadvantages of moire, aliasing, record time limit, substandard audio and auto-focus limitations.
safrican wrote on 11/30/2011, 9:11 AM
Here is my $0.02 and that is all it really is since this works / worked for me.

A couple years back I bought a better than average Canon Vixia HF21 on a black Friday sale for 50% off. Love the camera but the lack of full auto made low light scenarios difficult. I wanted / needed something a little better. So this past summer I opted for a Canon T3i HDSLR. I use both cameras for most things but here are the uses.

HF21
Good for longer shoots - performances, speeches, etc
Great outside - Anything you shoot in good to ideal light situations will be stunning. Can tweak the setting some for indoor and still get good results but very low light is hard. ( I have heard of an exposure lock but not been able to get that to work).
Good for wider shots, deep DOF and a lot of movement (auto focus), sports, at the park, etc

T3i
Great for interview type shots - little movement
Full manual, so you can shoot in any light condition and get the result you choose
Excellent lens / zoom capabilities
Great for shallow DOF
And, hey it takes stunning stills.

I have a small mixer (2 XLR inputs) than I run into a zoom H2 recorder for audio. The H4N also has XLR inputs but I bought this one some time ago and works great.

Dan Sherman wrote on 11/30/2011, 9:18 AM
May I suggest a Panasonic DVX100a or b available used for less than a thousand dollars. More pro' than 'sumer if HD isn't an issue.
Siby wrote on 11/30/2011, 9:35 AM
I brought sony CX700v from B&H photo video last week. this camera works great . Did few shots and the output looks great. they gave me for $895 w/o extra battery.
Laurence wrote on 11/30/2011, 10:05 AM
>May I suggest a Panasonic DVX100a or b available used for less than a thousand dollars. More pro' than 'sumer if HD isn't an issue.

Opinions will vary, but I'd rather shoot with a Flip or an iPod Touch than any SD camera including this one. The DVX100 doesn't even shoot 16:9 properly. It uses 4:3 sensors and throws the top and bottom of the frame away. Not a bad camera for it's day, but hopelessly out of date now.