64 bit Vegas still a crasher

Sebaz wrote on 10/22/2011, 11:24 AM
I was hoping that with the new major version they would finally fix the bugs with the 64 bit version, but apparently not. I haven't downloaded the trial for the 32 bit version, but in both Vegas 9 and 10, editing with the 32 bit version was pretty reliable, maybe a crash every now and then, but every version of 64 bit Vegas starting with 8.1 and coming all the way to 11 crashes for no good reason at all.

I'm not talking about a complicated project, just a simple linear project, footage from the same AVCHD camera one clip after another, some cuts and transitions. I will adjust a transition, an effect, anything, and as soon as I hit play it crashes. It's been the same exact bug since they released 8.1 years ago, 9 did the same, 10 did the same and now 11. And it used to happen in my previous computer, an Intel Quad Core 2.66 Ghz and now on an AMD 1090T, and on both Nvidia and ATI graphics card, so I know it's not the hardware.

Since yesterday I tried to test the new Vegas by editing something simple and every time I start, I can't go ten minutes without it crashing as soon as I hit play. I do send the crash report to SCS as I've been doing since they released it with 9, but years go by and 64 bit still crashes all the time. I'm thinking this is the first version of Vegas I will not buy, even at the $150 upgrade price.

Comments

RedAdder wrote on 10/22/2011, 10:15 PM
I have the exact same troubles as you.
This all happened in Version 10 as well but maybe not as much, anyway, I was waiting till 11 as I thought it might be all fixed.... BUT NO it's worse.
I have never had Windows 7 64bit fall over before, it seems pretty solid but Vegas is playing havoc with it !!!!!

My System
Windows Version:7 64-bit
RAM:12gb
Processor:Intel i7 3.07GHz
Video Card:Nvidia GeForce GTX 560 Ti
Sound Card:Realtek HD Audio Manager Drv ver - 6.0.1.6077

Vegas pro 11
1. Stops responding,
2. crashes and closes,
3. and the biggie "BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH"
This happens randomly with no warning.
Seems to happen when playing with effects
BUT have had BLUE SCREEN just previewing a video clip. !!!!
Some failure reports have been sent to SCS before the program terminated itself, but haven't heard back from them.
China wrote on 10/22/2011, 10:37 PM
I am not a huge fan of W7.

I have had it BSOD on me on 2 machines (one of which has no Vegas on it) over the last months.

My issue ended up being solved by re-installing the manufacturers video drivers as it appears the W7 update replaced them with generic Windows ones without asking.

All good since then, but took me off-line for days before I could figure it out.
...and course you will not know unless you look for it!

Is this worth a go?

John_Cline wrote on 10/22/2011, 10:53 PM
Generally, when something like this happens, it is usually the video card or sound card drivers.
Sebaz wrote on 10/22/2011, 11:19 PM
@RedAdder, in your case, it could be some hardware or drivers problem. Vegas 64 bit has crashed on me very often since 8.1, but never caused a BSOD. Those usually indicate a deeper problem, which may be solved by updating drivers, but it may be a hardware fault. Sometimes reinstalling Windows from scratch works if the installation was too damaged, but if it's a hardware problem, you will have to pinpoint the problem and replace the problem component first. Still, I wouldn't have high hopes for Vegas 64 bit, it's as bad as it always was.
CorTed wrote on 10/22/2011, 11:41 PM
Sebaz, I have been editing AVCHD, pretty straight forward stuff like you, all day without a single crash. (VP11-64bit)
There are so many variables between computers, it can be quite hard figuring out why you are having these problems, when there are other people just zooming along.
Sebaz wrote on 10/22/2011, 11:52 PM
Yes, but it would be different if I was talking about just one computer with one set of components, and one OS.

What I'm talking about is every version of 64 bit Vegas, across two computers since 2008, one an Intel CPU and the other an AMD, one with an Nvidia card and the other with an ATI but also a newer Nvidia at one point, and fresh installs of Vista and 7. In all these variations of hardware and software, there's one thing in common, 64 bit Vegas crashes like crazy while 32 bit Vegas crashes every once in a while. That tells me that 64 bit Vegas is flaky and has something that makes it crash. Otherwise Vegas 32 bit would crash just as often, and also my other 64 bit software would crash as often, when the only one that crashes so much is Vegas 64 bit.
UlfLaursen wrote on 10/22/2011, 11:56 PM
strange - I work on 64 bit only on several PC's, both 9, 10 and now 11, and have had vegas crash once or twice over the last two years or so and I make projects with mixed media AVCHD / SD / Pictures / WAV etc.
I sure feel sorry for you guys, but I'm not sure its a general problem.

Generally, when something like this happens, it is usually the video card or sound card drivers

I would surely look at some hardware too, like John says.

/Ulf
rmack350 wrote on 10/23/2011, 12:13 AM
There's actually two common components to Sebaz' problems. One is 64-bit versions of Vegas and the other is the common operator.

I had a friend who could always make my computer crash within 30 minutes even though it was always perfectly stable for me. I don't know how he did it. Maybe he just had a knack for clicking on things at exactly the wrong moment.

Aside from that, the other thing about a common operator is that we tend to be pretty consistent about how we set up our computers. I've had a handful of them but there are certain things I always install, and certain configurations I always do.

Anyway, its not actually an explanation but it might be a rationale to explain why some people's computers always crash and others' never crash.

Rob Mack
Sebaz wrote on 10/23/2011, 12:13 AM
Here's my latest 64 bit V11 crash, with all the details the crash reporter gives me. This is after using it for about ten or fifteen minutes.

Extra Information
File: C:\Users\Sebastian\AppData\Local\Sony\Vegas Pro\11.0\gpu_video_x64.log
File: C:\Users\Sebastian\AppData\Local\Sony\Vegas Pro\11.0\dx_video_grovel_x64.log
File: C:\Users\Sebastian\AppData\Local\Sony\Vegas Pro\11.0\svfx_video_grovel_x64.log
File: C:\Users\Sebastian\AppData\Local\Sony\Vegas Pro\11.0\dx_grovel_x64.log
File: C:\Users\Sebastian\Vegas Projects\Mark Rehearsal.veg

Problem Description
Application Name: Vegas Pro
Application Version: Version 11.0 (Build 371) 64-bit
Problem: Unmanaged Exception (0xc0000005)
Fault Module: C:\Program Files\Sony\Vegas Pro 11.0\vegas110k.dll
Fault Address: 0x0000000180017594
Fault Offset: 0x0000000000017594

Fault Process Details
Process Path: C:\Program Files\Sony\Vegas Pro 11.0\vegas110.exe
Process Version: Version 11.0 (Build 371) 64-bit
Process Description: Vegas Pro
Process Image Date: 2011-09-27 (Tue Sep 27) 17:50:30
John_Cline wrote on 10/23/2011, 12:15 AM
I have used Vegas-64 all day, every day since v9, I've generated literally hundreds of hours of long-form programming and have never had a crash. I've had the occasional hiccup, but never a crash. Now my experience with Adobe Premiere is a completely different story...
Sebaz wrote on 10/23/2011, 12:24 AM
And five minutes later, another crash, this one didn't even give the crash reporter a chance, it's just the Windows crash dialog:

Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: vegas110.exe
Application Version: 11.0.0.371
Application Timestamp: 4e8211d3
Fault Module Name: sfapprw.dll
Fault Module Version: 11.0.0.371
Fault Module Timestamp: 4e820e54
Exception Code: c0000005
Exception Offset: 00000000001df716
OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.768.3
Locale ID: 1033
Additional Information 1: 2ccb
Additional Information 2: 2ccbf8a2b378defbe49433ccb30c2f75
Additional Information 3: d069
Additional Information 4: d069057d42cd3b0630851a485b965c9a


John_Cline wrote on 10/23/2011, 1:52 AM
The file sfs4rw.dll is described as the Sony S4RW Component that communicates with Sony's applications and, in turn, communicates with certain hardware. I'm pretty certain that you have a problem with your machine. Really, if it was a fundamental problem with Vegas, the forum would be flooded with complaints.
Steve Mann wrote on 10/23/2011, 9:03 AM
As I've said many times in the past - Unmanaged Exception is almost always a driver problem.
Sebaz wrote on 10/23/2011, 10:55 AM
The file sfs4rw.dll is described as the Sony S4RW Component that communicates with Sony's applications and, in turn, communicates with certain hardware. I'm pretty certain that you have a problem with your machine.

So lets suppose I have a problem in my machine. Why is it that no other 64 bit apps crash as often, or even regularly? And why does it happen on two different machines with different internal components and even CPU brands? And while my system now is heavy and overdue a fresh install, over the years I tried doing a fresh intall of Vista and 7, installing the updates, latest drivers and then Vegas 64 bit. It still crashes all the time.
Sebaz wrote on 10/23/2011, 11:02 AM
You don’t say if you built your systems, had them built for you or bought them. At least I did not catch that.

I built both systems, the first was with an Intel mobo and CPU retail boxed, and OCz RAM that wasn't the cheapest but it wasn't the most expensive either. The current system is on my profile page, but to save you the time I'll paste it here and add a couple of components:

Windows Version: Windows 7 64 bit
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-890FXA-UD5
RAM: 16 GB G.Skill Ripjaws F3-10666CL9Q-16GBRL
Processor: AMD Phenom II 1090T @3.2 Ghz (6 cores)
Video Card: HIS ATI RAdeon HD 4850 1 GB
Sound Card: On Board Gigabyte GA-890FXA-UD5
Video Capture: OHCI compliant IEEE1394 card
CD Burner: None
DVD Burner: Pioneer DVR-217D, LG GBW-H20L
Byron K wrote on 10/23/2011, 2:03 PM
Sebaz, Have you tried downloading another copy? I had similar issues and ended up downloading 3 times before the crashing stopped.

Also, if you haven't already, reseat all your hardware, including memory sticks power connectors, video card(s), sound cards and if easily accessible your CPU.
Sebaz wrote on 10/23/2011, 2:17 PM
Thanks Byron, but like I said, 64 bit Vegas has been crashing on me since 8.1, then 9, 10 and now 11, on different computers and OSes. I doubt downloading another copy will solve the problem. I tried many different things over the years and nothing works. Perhaps 64 bit Vegas works fine on some systems, and maybe it's just really picky when it comes to which motherboards, CPUs and graphics card it uses, but the fact that all my other software is stable tells me this is not my system. In any case it could be that Vegas 64 bit was designed with a specific flaw from the beginning that makes it not compatible with a lot of hardware, and all updates to it since then improved other things but have not addressed that particular problem.

That said, since I have to do a system reinstall soon, I will do that, install just the OS and updates along with the latest drivers, then Vegas 11 64 bit and spend several hours playing with it to see what happens, and then report back.
farss wrote on 10/23/2011, 3:41 PM
"Perhaps 64 bit Vegas works fine on some systems, and maybe it's just really picky when it comes to which motherboards, CPUs and graphics card it uses,"

Not so in my experience, if it's going to crash on you it will crash on you regardless of the hardware. I've been across intractible crashing problems even on reference hardware.

What does seem to be the differentiator between people who have it never crash and people who have it crash is how they use it, I'm mean literally how you edit with it. That can make it very difficult to diagnose what the cause is.

Like JC I've run huge projects through Vegas with never a crash. I can also get it to crash at the drop of a hat with nothing more than generated media on the timeline. Blanket statements suggesting that there can be nothing wrong with it also seem at serious variance with what SCS themselves have said time and again in their own release notes, the word "crash" appears many times.

Personally one of the biggest annoyances is SCS's unwillingness to commit resources to fixing problems they have admitted to. On the other hand based on many experiences I've yet to find a NLE that is entirely goof proof. One of my cleints submitted his movie, rendered out of FCP, to a festival with several frames of red with the "media offline" message in the middle. I've worked around one of Vegas's known problems several times by using Ppro. I still have contact with someone who was a major complainer here that has switched to Adobe and has never looked back making a very decent living with at least double the productivity. Bottom line, you find a different tool that works for you, go for it. In the grand scheme of things NLEs are dirt cheap, why waste time with something that doesn't work for you.

Bob.
Sebaz wrote on 10/23/2011, 3:50 PM
What does seem to be the differentiator between people who have it never crash and people who have it crash is how they use it, I'm mean literally how you edit with it. That can make it very difficult to diagnose what the cause is.

That would be a good point, except at least in my case it's not, and that's simply because I edit the same way in Vegas 32 than in 64. And this happens on a very simple AVCHD timeline, one video track and one audio track belonging to the same source clip. Most times it happens just from going to the previous cut and pressing play. In fact, 99% of the crashes happen as soon as hit the space bar. And it's been the same exact way since 8.1.

However none of this ever happens when I press the space bar in Vegas 32, and certainly never when I press it in Edius or PPro.
Leopardman wrote on 10/23/2011, 4:04 PM
I've been using Vegas since release 7, I build my own systems and crashes have been the exception, specifically Vegas.

I've been using V11 since it became avaiable on 2 projects each +- 2hrs long. One consists of 100 mxf and 30 m2t video clips (it was originally created in V10e), been editing, playing, and done full project renders without a hitch. The other one consists of 94 mxf and 35 m2t video clips, also done a full render, edited sections of it, no crash.

Windows Event log is a good place to start looking for problems. From my own experience I've found that software mostly and then hardware clashes were the real source of the problems.

Eddie
_______________________________________________
Win 7 Pro 64-bit, Intel i7 2600k 3.4GHz, Gigabyte GA-Z68XP-UD4 Mobo,8GB RAM, 500GB Boot drive, 2x1TB Raid drives,
1x500GB scratch drive, 2xBlu-ray writers, GeForce GT 440 2.1 Capable, Black Magic Intensity Pro HD External Preview
crocdoc wrote on 10/23/2011, 4:19 PM
Vegas 10 has crashed for me consistently if I open up an effects dialogue box for a clip and turn effects on and off to see which ones I'd like to retain. Often it will wait until I try to close the effects window before freezing and crashing. I've developed the habit of saving projects at least once a minute while I work and especially if I am about to click on an event's effects button.
Sunflux wrote on 10/23/2011, 4:24 PM
I've been using Vegas 10 64-bit in WIndows 7 and I have never had it crash. So, really, it probably is a system problem if it's crashing a lot for you.

I will say that it can be hard to test for these specific problems. I spent over 2 weeks doing nothing more than continual stress testing of the system I'm using now when it was new (hand built i7 6-core based on an Intel motherboard), using 3 completely different stress testers, in order to perfectly adjust cooling and memory timings until it was 100% rock solid no matter what I threw at it.

By default, using memory at the speed it was supposed to work at and letting the system manage its own cooling, this system was NOT stable. It would have occasional hiccups. In the end, part of it was a problem with the motherboard - there was a hard line at which things were completely stable, and then if I pushed memory timings just one notch higher (still not close to what the memory SHOULD have worked at) I could get it to generate random errors within 15 minutes of stress testing.

As for cooling, the CPU cooler's heatsink was so good that the system's default balance resulted in barely any CPU fan movement, resulting in inadequate cooling of the voltage regulator.
Sebaz wrote on 10/23/2011, 7:38 PM
...there was a hard line at which things were completely stable, and then if I pushed memory timings just one notch higher (still not close to what the memory SHOULD have worked at) I could get it to generate random errors within 15 minutes of stress testing.

So what did you end up doing? Because as far as I knew, the timings and voltage had to be consistent with the timings on the stick label. Did your stable timings end up being higher or lower than what it says on the label?
Hulk wrote on 10/23/2011, 8:12 PM
I am running VP10 on Windows 7 64 bit and find it to be very stable, as I've found with other versions. But I am very careful when building my computers. Here are some "rules" I follow.

1. I stand by Asus motherboards. I've been through others and the better Asus ones have never let me down. Get one of the better ones with solid caps, 7 layer pcb, etc..
2. Only purchase RAM qualified for your specific motherboard. If it ain't on the list then don't try (buy) it. Run faster RAM at slower timings for better performance and stability (verses the reverse). I'm running G.Skill 1600 at CAS9 currently.
3. Buy a quality power supply. I like Seasonic and the new passive units are pretty amazing.
4. Trusted video with solid drivers. Buy the ones everyone is buying and you will have a better chance of stability since issues will be ironed out faster if tens of thousands of people are reporting issues. Currently I'm using onboard Z68 video with zero issues.
5. If you are using SSD buy Intel or something else proven to be reliable like Crucial M4.
6. Keep it lean and mean. Only load what you need.
7. Run your new computer at stock speeds for a few weeks, verifying stability before trying to overclock. When overclocking make sure you have a good aftermarket cooler and go for an "easy" overclock. I'm using the Noctua UH12 cooler and overclocking my 2500k to a mild 4GHz at stock voltage.

Finally. Every piece of hardware and software that goes into your system should be vetted though checking out reviews. Also try to minimize all the hardware you can. For example, if you need Firewire get a motherboard with it built in. This way the motherboard manufacturer has already worked out any issues between the two. Or at least the good motherboard manufacturers have.

Just some tips I've learned over my past 20 years of computer building.