To me it looks like the Sony is 60% video and 40% still and the other way arround with the Canon.
I have the Canon 550D (video is basicly the same as 5D) but I mainly use it for stills. I'm trying to do video with it too, and it is great, but so far for bigger projects I use my videocams for them.

I think if you really want to get something out of these combi cams you need to buy some decent lenses too, which highers your investment quite a lot, and you basicly choose a system. If you buy lenses for lets say $2-3,000 you will stick to that lens system unless you sell it all.

I think you need to decide what your job is most, and then decide from that. If the 5D is your only cam, you will have to get some ascessories, f.ex. a decent viewfinder - I find it hard some times with my 550D to focus especially outdoors with the dack screen only.

/Ulf

Without knowing what your needs are it is impossible for anyone to recommend anything.

One thing I have read is that the Canon 5D cannot shoot continuous. The sensor overheats and can only record about 12 minutes of video at a time. So if you shoot live events like I do where you need to have the camera rolling for 1hr+, buy a "real" video camera.

~jr

I will be looking at doing documentary work.
The Canon5D mark II has caused a shake up in the Digital Cinema world.
The finale for the tv show "House" was shot with this puppy.
TV commercials, films, and documentaries and now shot also.
So I'm a little confused on which direction ...especially with Sony countering Canons move with the NEX VG10 , which also has a full frame sensor.

Sony's Nex VG10 being priced around 2000.00 with 200mm lenses
and Canon around 3200.00 (body only).

I live in the Santa Barbara County area and had a chance to speak with a few individuals at the Brooks Institute of Photography in Venture California.
for Digital Cinema program they are using Canon 5D's.

Thats a good point..12min and have start recording again. hmmm I see this being addressed down the road by Canon

I agree... decide what you'll do most, video or stills, and then go for that one which suits your primary concerns best...
Myself - I'm of the notion that I get the best video camera I can afford for video only and get the best still camera I can afford for still pictures only ... it seems like combining them both introduces compromises - like the duration of recording time ... I'm just thinking out loud with no real experience or evidence to support my notion.
Hooking the 5D directly to a computer (or video recording hard drive) might eliminate the duration of the recording time, but still not address the overheating of the chip ... supporting the notion that if you want to record video, use a video camera...
* * *
I'm not a fan of multi-tasking digital devices since my time in the army ... if you have a radio that works in four different frequency ranges for your primary radio and the battery or power supply dies, you can't operate on any frequency... If you had four different radios, one battery dies, and you still have the use of the other three.
* * *
So, if you have only one expensive camera (not that anyone does) instead of two less expensive ones - a dead battery (not that anyone would have only one battery) puts both of them out of business ... or a failed power supply, for that matter ... so the interruption of operation to one function might very well kill all functions ...
* * *

Your mileage may vary ... until that time ... Earl J.

Earl_J

And that may be where Sony is getting this one just right. As the entire NEX series of cameras use the same "E-Mount" lenses, but are able to use the Sony Alpha series A-Mount lenses as well with the A-Mount adapter available from Sony at launch, if you decide to upgrade, that way your video and still cameras can exchange lenses freely. Of course that is only if you go for (or already use) Sony or Minolta lenses.

A. Grandt stated:
Of course that is only if you go for (or already use) Sony or Minolta lenses.

That's good to know... I have a few Minolta lenses floating around here somewhere from my re-enlistment present to myself back in the day - a Minolta SRT-101 ... woohoo... I can actually use them for something now - provided I purchase/convert to Sony brands... hmmm. . . (grin)

That's nice to know in any event ... thanks for mentioning it... I may have to eat my own words here... (sigh) just hold the ketchup, hold the mayo ... (wink)

Until that time ... Earl J.

Can't say anything about the Sony NEX VG10 but my two cents on DSLR's. I recently sold off my EX1 and all accessories and went with a 7D. The reason for the 7D over the 5D being that the 5D doesn't output to HD while recording just like the T2i which makes pulling focus difficult. Out and about I use a Zacuto Z-Finder and recently got the Fast Draw rails. Used it this weekend following a magician around doing street performances. It went incredibly smooth and I honestly forgot what I was shooting with. The night shooting we did on 6th Street here in Austin with the 85 1.2 and 50 1.2 is simply stunning, didn't need an onboard light. After using the EX1 with a Letus35 for years and struggling with lowlight it was just a dream. The second camera was a T2i outfitted with whichever 1.2 lens I wasn't using at the time and the difference between the two footage wise is negligible, I doubt anyone could tell the difference.

In the studio stuff we've done when I can be on sticks it's even better as I can use my Marshal monitor, having Peaking and Pixel-to-Pixel are a huge plus.

Of course sound is another issue entirely. On the street the magician was wearing a wireless lav and we had a boom to get the spectators audio, both going to a Marantz recorder. This takes an extra person and is a little more work in post but with PluralEyes isn't that difficult, still not as simple as jacking an XLR into your camera and having the audio embedded in the video track. I do miss that.

For me I've used the 7D and T2i's for just about everything I used to except long form live stuff because of the time limit but thats about it. I have had overheat warnings but as long as you know the limitations its nothing that can't be worked around. The clients I have love the look that these cameras produce and I have to agree. There are times I miss aspects of more traditional "video cameras" but by and large its just a matter of adapting and I'm happy I finally took the plunge.

- Ray
Underground Planet

P.S. Just did some more digging around about the Sony NEX VG10, though it looked enticing at first blush for me personally the lack of 24p is a deal breaker, but that's just me.

Earl, don't take my word for the Minolta part though, it was something I read elsewhere, you better make sure that the A-Mount is compatible with your lenses before spending money on a camera :)

I looked a little more, and it appears that it's the Minolta AF lenses that are directly compatible with the Sony A-Mount, manual focus lenses apparently still need a converter.

[url=http://www.mhohner.de/sony-minolta/faq.php#lens_a100]

Most people don't realize how expensive the DSLRs really are... My 7D (costing around $1600) is worth around $5000 with all necessary accessories:
http://patrykrebisz.com/canon_7d.html

It's not body and the lens only but all those little things... You NEED HD monitor for focus, you NEED mattebox and ND filters for shooting outside...

You got out of it very cheaply.
Our 5D rig with all the bits and pieces including a set of 5 primes set us back well over $10K.
Going back to the original question, the VG10 in a heartbeat.
If you can, then wait for the "pro" version that'll be out later this year. The VG10 is still missing a number of features I'd consider vital to shooting a doco.

That said to be honest I'd consider none of these cameras a wise choice for a lot of doco shooting.

Bob.

Well, you may WANT that stuff, but you certainly don't NEED that stuff. It is nice to have in some cases.

You don't NEED an HD monitor for focus, use the built in magnifier. We've shot two films that way. Magnify focus for position 1 on the focus disk. Magnify and mark for each stop on the move, and for the final position. Then you can run it blind if you care to.

We shot today in the noon sun in Florida. Not a mattebox in sight. A piece of black foamcore held over the camera and operator cut out all lens flare. And as a bonus prevented the need for a loupe as well.

I do agree on the ND. There is just no way around that. It's preposterous that these cameras have a minimum ISO of 100. Should be 10 or 25 at least. Heck I could get ISO 25 and 32 speed FILM!

I'm with Perrone on this one, I think it's pretty easy to confuse needs with wants, I do it daily. I've also never used a mattebox with this setup, I think a lot of people use it more as camera bling to try and make it look like a bigger/better setup but for the most part is just extra baggage.

I'd also agree that a monitor could be optional, though its a nice frikkin one to have, for me it makes all the difference in the world.

A Z-Finder or other loupe could be construed as optional depending on what your doing. Magnifier works fine for studio and locked off shots but if your racking focus won't suffice as the magnifier is disabled while recording. I suppose you could mark your lens or follow focus, not practical for run and gun/doc/spontaneous/live/street stuff though.

My two cents. =)

- Ray
Underground Planet

Another P.S. I'm not much of a fan of follow focus either, I prefer focusing directly with the lens and could really only see myself having someone pull my focus if I were using a Steadicam or some similar operation where it would be impossible for me to work it myself.

You say you're interested in shooting docos, what kind of docos is the next question. How many in the crew if any is another question. Where in the world will you be shooting is another.

We recently kitted out a crew going into the front line in Afghanistan. Our PMW 350, they took two HD zooms of their own and a decent amount of Lectrosonics wireless gear. Crew was cameraman, sound guy and director.

For hardcore doco work like this you want gear that just works and works very quickly. You should also give serious consideration to your audio needs. Getting clean audio in a doco environment can be vital. Neither of the cameras you're looking at are stellar in that department. Another thing that you'll come to appreciate is a good tripod. Something that is quick to deploy and light weight can make a difference.

Bob.

I agree.
For doco shooting you'll need to be quick at pulling focus to follow an action or adapt to variable, moving situations.
You cannot , then, have a cam that needs some device to actually see what you're doing (ie: focus).
For interviews if there is, then you can use a camera with focus memory points.
Both of these cams will make you swear when you're on duty. They're more geared towards fiction imo.
And I think the Sony is not that impressive...yet. I'd feel like being part of R&D financing if I bought one right now actually.

Perrone, you have a director ask for a handhekd shot of two people walking and talking.... How do you deal with the focus in cases like that without the monitor? With monitor at least i have a chance to try to get the focus.

MUTTLEY, without mattebox how do you control exposure with NDs? You can't. Especially if your lenses have all different threads thus you can'ts simply screw one on.

How do I control exposure? I guess I don't understand your saying I can't. If I want to be wide open for DoF I use a Fader ND, otherwise I just stop the lens down. I'm a little confused on this one, did I miss something?

- Ray
Underground Planet

Do it all the time. Select an f-stop that allows you to keep about 2ft of depth (or more) in focus. Measure and mark the distance on your focus control, or if you don't have a focus controller, then measure the distance and set it on the lens. Walk at the same pace as the talent while keeping them framed. This stuff isn't rocket science. Hell, you can tie a rope between the beltloops of one of the talent and the camera man and maintain the distance by keeping the rope taut. Or you can actually *practice* it until you get it right.

Yes, you missed something. Somewhere along the way, you learned how to adapt to things. That seems to be missing from the arsenal of some filmmakers these days.

Patryk, before matteboxes were available to mere mortals like us, we used screw-in filters. And we learned from the likes of Nikon. As a still photographer Nikon glass was well regarded. One of the major benefits was that practically every piece of glass Nikon made took either a 52mm filter or a 72. The 72s were for the big glass F1.2, F1.4, and the 52mm size were for the 1.8 50, the 2.8s, and the 3.5-4.0s.

You could go from 20mm to over 200mm with just two sets of filters. Amazingly, since we can now put that same glass on the 5D/7D/55D, the same advantages hold true. You can cover the entire range of basic cinema lenses with 72 and 52mm filters. There is an oddball 62mm thrown in there for the 85mm 1.4 or something, but other than that, all the others work.

What if you want f2.8 on a sunny day? With ND fader you need one for each ring size, i have 5 different ring sizes... at $100/pop you are asking me to spend more then on my ND 4x4 glass and an inexpensive mattebox. On top of that you are prone to flaring (if it's something you don't want) and can't use specialty filter (sktreak, soft grad etc) right out of the box. In essence your argument that mattebox = only for looks is invalid as your option is more expensive and less versatile.

That's not my argument at all. My argument is simply that thousands of people make movies EVERY YEAR without a mattebox. Therefore I consider it not "necessary" but simply desirable.

Pardon me, I've got a movie to start posting today. I'll check on you in a week.

Likewise you don't actually have to shoot with DSLR and can use a prosumer camcorder from Best Buy that cost $700. But if someone shoots with DSLR and don't use a mattebox with NDs to control the exposure (and uses shutter or f-stops instead) then allow me to laugh quietly at them behind their back as they are using wrong tools for the job.