AC3 speed change

mark2929 wrote on 4/29/2010, 3:06 AM
I need to convert a 25fps AC3 soundtrack to 23.976 for an NTSC DVD but would need to change the pitch for pulldown. Forgive my ignorance on this but I have had no dealings with NTSC until now.

NTSC DVD
1) What are the steps I should take to make the best conversion from 25 to 23.976 for pulldown.

NTSC BLURAY
1) Will the bluray employ pulldown or just playback at 23.976 ..

2) If it plays back at 23.976 what are the steps I should take for the best conversion.

3) Is 23.976 a universal format IE can bluray version play on both PAL and NTSC BD players?

Comments

mark2929 wrote on 4/30/2010, 6:11 AM
I imagine these are basic questions.
Steve Grisetti wrote on 4/30/2010, 10:38 AM
Actually, if you're asking what I think you're asking, it's a very complicated question.

Are you asking how to create an NTSC DVD from PAL content?

If so, I'd recommend you convert the video to NTSC before you bring it into DVD Architect. DVD Architect is a great DVD authoring app, but a lousy editor and video processor. But, of course, it was never meant to be an editor or processor!

See if you can do your conversion from PAL to NTSC in Vegas.

The conversion will change the frame rate -- but it won't change the speed of your playback, if that's what you're asking. It simply reinterprets the frame rate. This sometimes makes for a little ghosting of the image, but it should be an acceptable level.

Once you've got your NTSC video from Vegas (preferably a DVD quality MPEG) you can use that as your source video for DVD Architect.
mark2929 wrote on 4/30/2010, 2:37 PM
Hi Steve thanks for the reply.

No I've already converted the video to 23.976.

My question is about the sound WHICH I slowed it down to 23.976 using elastique for the shift in pitch but what happens when the film has pulldown added Will the sound play okay at 29.976 with pulldown or is there something I should add to the sound to make it less problematic when speeded up IE pitch shift?

Mark
Steve Grisetti wrote on 4/30/2010, 6:49 PM
I may be in over my head here, Mark.

I'm not sure why you "pulled down" your frame rate to 23.976 and slowed down your video. If your goal is to convert PAL to NTSC, that really doesn't accomplish anything.

As I said, when you go from PAL (25 fps) to NTSC (~29 fps) you create new frames from a blended version of the PAL frames. You're speeding up the frames.

Maybe you've got something else going on that I don't understand. I have no idea why you changed the frame rate to such a random number.
mark2929 wrote on 4/30/2010, 11:26 PM
Hi Steve

My understanding is that an NTSC DVD will add pulldown if flagged to a 23.976fps film this takes it up to 29.976 fps.
This is why I have changed my PAL film from 25fps to 23.976fps

I've also changed the sound to 23.976fps to match the film but if pulldown is employed by the NTSC DVD player then the sound will be slowed down..

This slowdown is going to sound odd unless Im doing something wrong here. BUT if this is the way it is done is there anything I can do to make the sound better when its run at 29.976fps

Mark
Steve Grisetti wrote on 5/1/2010, 7:32 AM
I'm sorry, Mark. I really am not sure what you're asking.

All I know is that many programs will convert PAL to NTSC directly by blending the frames to the new frame rate. It sometimes leaves some ghosting -- but it's a pretty simple process.

I know of no reason to go to an intermediate frame rate or use a 'pull down'. But maybe someone else knows something I don't know. (I wouldn't be surprised!)
mark2929 wrote on 5/1/2010, 7:50 AM
Thanks Steve Appreciate your trying.

Mark
musicvid10 wrote on 5/1/2010, 8:21 PM
Changing the frame rate changes the number of frames. It does not affect the speed or the length of the video (except for an inconsequential offset of a few ms on the very last frame). It either adds or drops frames to keep up with the original playback speed. Therefore, one does not need to concern oneself with changing the speed or the length of the audio. It will sync up just fine.

Perhaps you are confusing the concept of frame rate with playback rate which was discussed at length in another thread you started on essentially the same topic.

"Pulldown" is something that is added to film to make it sync properly with NTSC video which is at a higher frame rate. It has essentially nothing to do with what you really want to do, which involves lowering the frame rate slightly (from 25 to 23.976) , with the effect of dropping approximately one frame per second. Whether or not you "disable resample" is up to you.

On the other hand, if your strategy is to change the playback rate to .0959, which was suggested to you previously, then you would ungroup your audio first and ctrl->drag it to the end of your shortened video event.

I suggest not upsampling to 29.97 but rendering it at 23.97 NTSC since your apparent goal is to go from PAL source to NTSC DVD or BD. Much better to drop 1fps and keep it as close as possible to the PAL original than to add six artificial frames per second to your video, no matter what method you use. But go ahead and test both, and draw your own conclusions from the results.

Make sense? I hope so.
mark2929 wrote on 5/2/2010, 5:56 AM
Hi Music vid

I was thinking the same thing today! Stupid old me. Right got a film to make..

Thanks everyone.

Mark
mark2929 wrote on 5/4/2010, 6:29 AM
Just a quick update

I have now mastered a 24p BLURAY 23.97 NTSC and 25 PAL Now being duplicated!

Thanks fo your help

Mark

WHEW
MPM wrote on 5/11/2010, 7:00 PM
FWIW, I've had a few timing issues crop up occasionally with 23.976 fps w/w/out pulldown, so I make a point to do a quick check regardless however strongly I *know* it couldn't be off. ;-) [After taking the time to burn an ISO to BD-RE is not the time I want to find that sort of thing out]

Importing mpg2/AC3 in DVDA for DVD &/or BD I've also seen some odd things happen at the end of the files... I generally avoid glitches by cutting the audio a frame or two shorter than the video, then trimming the end of every imported video/audio pair in DVDA. Having the audio longer can be a prob, & the last frames of Vegas encoded video tend to flash.