I got all excited about my treadmill desk project a couple of years ago after another videographer made one.

Long story short, I think mine lasted a month. For browsing the internet, it was fine. But for more precise movements (like editing), it was just too much of a chore. Your mouse hand will be moving slightly from the momentum of your body walking. This made it somewhat difficult to edit for long periods just because it took a little longer to do simple tasks.

But by all means, I'm not knocking your plan. Maybe it will work out for you where it didn't for me. Even if it's just an hour or two a day, that's better than nothing.

I now just go to the dog park everyday.

it's a thought that has been brought up and one I've pondered as well, which is why I have a design that I think will be alright for that since I can bring it up to my elbow height out to my side so that my arm is braced on the table. But it's all part of the experiment, perhaps I will find that I can't do any editing on my walking desk, and it will only be good for office work ( I have plenty of that too since my business does tons of different types of things for clients ).

Dave

interestingly i was researching this a few weeks ago after an article in wired:

http://zedomax.com/blog/2010/02/27/diy-treadmill-computer-workstation/

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/fea/healthyliving2/stories/DN-nh_leanplate_0220liv.ART.State.Edition1.2081c7a.html

http://www.treadmill-desk.com/

http://hubpages.com/hub/Treadmill-and-Workstation-Equals-Walkstation

since i live on rural acreage i decided as good an idea it might have been, i need a break from the screen more than anything - so a walk around the paddock, combined with a few serves of a tennis ball for the dogs, and i'm ready to go again.

it's just 'exercise' you get with one of these treadmills, no break for thought, reflection, and as i mentioned above, eye strain.....

leslie

I had thought of connecting the treadmill to an alternator to power the PC. Then again the thought of seeing something like this is a bit offputting:



Bob.

very cute ! ;-))

Nice Bob :-) :-)

/Ulf

Bob, that's hilarious.

I've had various bouts of RSI in different body locations and just recently went through a bunch of purchasing triggered by a "mouse elbow" problem. The mouse elbow came from holding my arm out as you're illustrating in figure 1. Of course you're planning on providing support so maybe there's less risk.

So, first I have a couple of fanciful ideas. One is a variation on the idea of powering the computer with your movement. Three possibilities come to mind. If it's a laptop you could pedal or walk to charge the battery. Or you could engineer the system to power your LCD's backlight. Or, and this is probably the most practical, you could hook the exercise widget up to a USB port and use it to trigger a customized screen saver. If you stop moving the screen saver turns on.

The second barely practical idea is to mount your screens on free floating arms like a kinetic sculpture so that they can float around a little. The idea is to get your head moving and relieve some neck problems. (I've found that wildflower spotting hikes in the spring really tune up my neck because I move my head around so much)

Getting more realistic, here's a list of ideas for the treadmill desk:

--change the scope of the project. The desk should be capable of straddling a wide array of exercise or assistive appliances. Not just a treadmill, but also an exercise bike, a reclining massage chair, whatever you can throw at it. Keep in mind that you'll get tired of some of these things and want to make a change.

--work surface needs to adjust from lap height to higher than standing height. You're proposing to stand on a treadmill. Very few sit-to-stand desks have this much rise.

--Monitors should have independent height adjustment. You need to be able to easily move them up and down as well as closer and farther. So, either you put the monitors on arms or perhaps build the desk with a monitor bridge and an independently adjustable work surface. In this second idea you'd raise the desk to a good monitor height and then crank the work surface up or down to fit.

--Lift mechanism. You should really think about a motorized or crank-up lift system that can lift the desk and all your hardware. You want to be able to do this without stripping the desk, and you want the CPU (and UPS) lifted so that your cable runs stay constant. This is probably something for version 2 of the desk, with version 1 being the unit that you can actually complete. The only cables leading out from this should be one AC cable and maybe one network cable

--Work surfaces and bridge surfaces should be replaceable. You may decide you don't like the first custom shape. Don't make it impossible to change

--If this were in the middle of a room maybe the whole thing could rotate around to be in front of the treadmill, or a tall chair, or a stationary bike. Just leave them all set up.

--put some wheels on this thing.

And finally, throw all this aside and just get the first version made.

Other ideas...Spot said that he keeps a ball under his feet when he sits and just moves it around like a guy standing on a ball. This sounds like a good idea for a foot stool for a tall desk and chair. Tall desks are good because you can stand when you want and you're not flopping yourself down into a chair. Less lower back stress. Fidgeting with the ball under your feet keeps you moving.

Lift mechanisms...I bought a Conset set of motorized legs and put my own surface on top. So far I just use it in the lowest position but the motor still allowed me to set the height with the desk loaded. It goes high enough to stand.

I'm not sure what home-made options would work. Camper jacks? You want about 2 feet of lift, I think. Garage door hardware? Got a good workshop?

Last point. Most chairs have arm rests. A wrap around desk interferes with those so you need to either be able to ditch the wrap or make it big enough to ditch the chair's rests.

Rob

I would go for a standing desk over a treadmill desk and then try to get the ergonomics correct. I think the raised version you show would cause problems if you are propping your upper body up.


they have just released studies showing that standing alone is a viable way to keep your weight in check and as you say, it's better for you back. They are doing studies to see if there are different kinds of muscles that burn calories at different rates, they believe they are muscles in the thighs that work this, specifically for standing

If you want the extra exercise, just use the treadmill ....heck, you can play your timelines for final review while you use it.

Also make sure you have proper posture. The optimal way is to stand is you look at the body from the side the ear is inline with the shoulder which is inline with the hips which is inline with knees which is inline with the ankles. The ear over shoulder is the hardest to do, if you offline, so don't worry about that. The key to getting this alignment correct is the position of the pelvis, Most folks with back problems have the pelvis rolled forward. (Think of pointing your belly button to the ceiling. The best way is the opposite, where the pelvis is back more and your butt is out more. Move your bellybutton the opposite way of pointing to the ceiling, at some point you will feel your abs engage. That is probably more of the way you should stand. If you had bad posture before, this can feel disorienting. For me, it felt like I was to far forward, almost like I would fall over. But as my body adjusted to it, I can now walk a mile pain free.

If you look on this page, there is an image for four types of posture. I think I had the sway back before with the pelvis too far forward, bringing the knees out of line. I thought I had knee issues, but it really was posture/pelvis issues.
http://www.squidoo.com/Improveyourposture


I have a high desk, but not a standing desk. I use this chair which you can get with an extr long tube. The saddle shape keeps your hips/pelvis pointed the way you want and since it's a stool, it forces you to use your abs and back to sit upright.
http://www.amazon.com/Humanscale-F300G-Freedom-Saddle-Seat/dp/B002FIJWKY

Editing kills my neck and shoulders (especially where my neck and skull join). Don't know what I'm doing wrong, but I never had this problem while cutting film.

A few years ago, I bit the bullet and paid $600 for an ergo chair--didn't do jack-diddly. I've adjusted that thing a hundred different ways from Sunday, and still can't find a configuration that is comfortable.

How long at a single stretch do you sit on the saddle-stool, Buster?

Jay, I get a lot of neck pain too. In my case raising the screens helped. Also, go for walks and look around at the world. The movement helps. Take up bird spotting, that makes you move your head in lots of directions.

My ergo chairs (an aeron at work, chadwick at home) help with a lot of things but not with the keyboard and monitor heights. I've pretty much decided that all three need to be adjustable, and it can get expensive. I don't think it's enough to adjust once and then load up the desk. You need something that can be adjusted after it's covered in junk, like a desk with an electric lift or hand crank. This way you can get the chair height right, then the keyboard height, then the screen height.

I think if you're sitting you want your feet flat, your thighs not hanging too much on the chair, your keyboard low enough for your shoulders to relax, armrests that can lightly support your arms without lifting your shoulders, and screens high enough and big/close enough that you don't crane your head forward. I also like a chair that absorbs shock if I flop into it and moves around enough that I never stay in exactly one position all day.

You could do this with a normal chair height or something at stool height as long as your feet are supported. Stool height makes it easy to stand and work when you want.

Bob - awesomely hilarious!

Rob,

Its very interesting to me that you had problems with your elbows being held at your side like that, because it seemed to me that the best way to maintain ergonomics was to get the most comfortable natural position of the arm at my side and keep that as much as possible while getting my hand to be flat parallel to the floor.

Some good ideas , but some that are obviously impractical (as you seemed to know :) ). I expect that this desk will be able to do other items potentially just fine, however I have an exercise recumbent, and that sitting hurts my back also ( why I'm switching to a treadmill ).

Work surface will be plenty easy to change, my plan is not to do a fixed build, but fixed parts that can build together and come apart for moving.

My Monitors are already on independent strut arms which will eventually be attached to the walking desk when my time spent there increases.

If I want to change this in the future to adjust to lower heights, it will just be a matter of replacing the track pieces.

I'm still figuring out how it's going to change height, but I don't think it will be a powered unit to start (likely a hand crank or peg system to begin with).

Thanks for the input guys, hoping that I'll have enough time to get this done this month. I'll post some pics or video of the build.

Dave

AFAIK, Walter Murch edits while standing up.

Ikea used to sell a really sweet electrically powered adjustable desk. At the flip of a switch, it would raise from the standard sitting height up to a level for use while standing. But alas, it was discontinued.

Just to be clear. That was with my elbow out away from my side. Elbow close to my side is better. Hands should be tilted a bit, more like holding a glass of water.

I think your desk idea is good. Look at leslie's links for some examples of more finished products. Also look at reader responses in some of those links. They link to other products.

I like the idea of a monitor bridge and separately adjustable work surface. I'm looking at this for a corner desk at my workplace: http://www.biomorph.com/1-888-302-DESK/exo/specs.html

One thing that occurs to me is that in a split level design the workspace/keyboard deck wouldn't have so much on it so a peg or slot system wouldn't be quite so hard to adjust. If you're monitors on the bridge are also height adjustable then the whole thing might not need a fancy lift mechanism.

Also, if you build a CPU and UPS hanger on the side such that it doesn't need to be lifted then things are a little easier for you. The goal is to make it easy enough to adjust that it isn't discouraging. I think you'll need to adjust it as you settle into it. Also, you may find that you remove the treadmill after a while so you want the desk to be adjustable for that.

rob

I can sit for hours at that chair. For me I need to sit higher than most folks and when I can do that I can get support though my legs. Also that makes you use your "sit bones" which is a yoga/pilates term and when you use your sit bones your spine is usually in a good position.

However, when you first get a backless chair, you have to adjust, as your core and your abs will be involved in stablizing you. When I first got it I found myself slumping a bit when I got tired. This was a sign to get up and walk around for a while. Overtime, this strengthens your back and core.

An amazing back help tip I got from the same guy who taught me about the posture alignment thing is to release your psoas muscle. It's a muscle that starts at the spine and then wraps around your pelvis to the front. It's the muscle that connects the top half of us to the bottom half. To release it, you just lay on the floor on your back with your knees bent and your feet flat on the floor. You want your feet together and your knees together. You'll see that if you try this, your knees will want to separate. So you take a belt or scarf and tie your knees together and then do nothing. After a while you will start to feel it. It feels strange, muslces you didn't know you had relaxing. Try to do it for a half hour. You'll find it much easier to move around afterwards.

This is where I bought my motorized set for my home office: http://www.conset.us/Text/default.aspx?m=text&a=all&id=943

Rob

Rob,

It's possible this will remove the treadmill at some point, however, then it just becomes a standing desk, and it would work fine in that capacity also. The main sitting desk I have is a corner desk that is about 6' in length from corner to edge going both left and right, and will house my desktop. I have no intention of getting rid of this desk. I am just giving myself an extended walking/standing desk to work with and eventually I think it will be more used than the wrap around, but they'll both be there. so I'm not expecting to remove the treadmill any time, or try and make it serve several purposes. Plus the color scheme will match the existing office furniture I have.

Just to make sure that it's clear that this is not my only desk, just my walking desk, though I plan to end up using it as my primary after a while.

Dave

Got it. We're on the same page. The desk could work as a standing desk or walking desk.

Rob

As far as getting something from sit-desk up to the standing desk, you could use Remote Desktop from the laptop to work on the other computer. You'd be limited to one screen and maybe no video preview window but the work and files would stay on the main machine this way, and you get the main machine's processing power.

If you can see the secondary preview screen from the walking desk that might cover the Vegas preview...have to check that because the sit-desk screens probably go blank when you log in remotely.

Anyway, it's one possibility.

Rob

I can mesh into them over the network, but it's never as good as just extending the desktop to a 3rd monitor. never the less, sometimes you sacrifice a bit to make keep the money in the bank account :).

Dave

Dave!...according to our clients video editing is already a walk in the park.. what more do you need? :)