Any way to check/specify source media field order?

fausseplanete wrote on 11/27/2009, 5:13 AM
I was just about to load in a standard def (PAL DV) interlaced AVI video clip, in Cineform code, when I realised that DVDA probably assumes a standard def AVI to be Upper Field First, as is the case in NTSC, same as Sony Vegas assumes (given that AVI container does not specify field order explicitly, so software has to guess).

Then I hunted for a way to ask DVDA what field order it had assumed, hoping not only for that but also a way of specifying what to assume. But I found neither. Right-Click does not have such an option.

Am I missing something ? Or is DVDA missing something ?

Comments

Steve Grisetti wrote on 11/27/2009, 7:16 AM
In my experience, DVD Architect automatically assumes DV-AVIs are lower field first and MPEGs are upper field first and makes the necessary adaptations to create VOBs.
musicvid10 wrote on 11/27/2009, 7:32 AM
It is one of those under-the hood functions that I don't concern myself with. Doesn't matter what field order you render in Vegas, DVDA gets it right.

I don't think DVDA "assumes" anything. My .mpg files work whether they are upper or lower first.
Whether I render a NTSC DV clip with upper or lower first, DVDA gets it right (just tried it).
I have never seen DVDA get the field order wrong. If it did you would know it right away.

I don't know if DVDA handles Cineform. If you are working with DV-AVI, why not Smart Render to DV-AVI and be done with it?
fausseplanete wrote on 11/27/2009, 12:39 PM
OK so maybe there's no issue. But I'm just uneasy if I don't understand it. Never thought about it before. I wonder how DVDA does it.

What I did in the current project (I had a tight deadline before any replies happened) was to render from Vegas as 50p so it could take whatever lines it wanted in whatever order! I had 50p media feeding that project in any case. Got the job done and it looked OK on a proper ancient CRT TV.

But the reason for using Cineform in the first place was a project years ago of standard definition where if I saved to DV and also to HuffYuv, I could definitely see a difference, albeit a subtle one. Cineform gave same the quality as HuffYuv but much smaller. So that's why I use it now, for standard def as well as high.
MPM wrote on 11/28/2009, 7:04 AM
You don't have much control over encoding in DVDA.
I think the reasoning behind the product design [or a common sense guess anyway], is that if you have DVDA, you also have Vegas, so why would you not use Vegas for your encodes in the 1st place, where you can [& should] specify clip, project, & render field orders. Once in DVDA, encoding's going to be upper 1st, as that's the common practice std for DVDs [& to a lesser extent mpg2]. BD was later added on.

Video imported into DVDA then [ideally] shouldn't be (re)encoded, so however you set the original render for the title is how it'll stay. Far as the player/TV goes, field order is irrelevant, as either *dumb* device just does what it's told. If/when there's a field order problem it's because the video file was encoded with it screwed up, & either will dutifully play it screwed up too. You can play std DV or a DVD on a regular TV just fine, & they have opposite field orders.

>"...render from Vegas as 50p so it could take whatever lines it wanted in
>whatever order..."

Creating the field order is a function of whatever created the interlaced video to begin with -- everything after that should normally be set to preserve it... if/when software makes a field order assumption that's not because the software knows what it is, but a convenience, saving you the time of setting it if/when it gets it right. The only way to tell the field order of interlaced video of unknown origin is to look at it field by field, preferably during a high motion sequence.

>"...using Cineform... saved to DV and also to HuffYuv, I could definitely see a
>difference, albeit a subtle one. Cineform gave same the quality as HuffYuv
>but much smaller."

There's quite a lot of info on-line RE: codecs & how they work. HUFFYUV was originally designed to be a very fast, lossless codec for analog video capture only -- not display, nor distribution -- & is still used that way &/or as an intermediate format before final rendering. At any rate, reasons for choosing a codec include speed of encoding/decoding, the amount of quality loss (if any), the amount of quality lost converting stored color data from your source format, & lastly the file sizes it produces. I'm not saying use or don't use Cineform, but if you're interested do the research &/or trials to determine if/when it's the best for your work.
Steve Grisetti wrote on 11/28/2009, 7:46 AM
And, of course, there's a lot to be said for doing a test run.

Put an AVI, an MPEG and whatever other source format you plan to use in a DVD Architect project and burn a disc. Then play it back on your TV and see how it looks.

Chances are, it will be flawless, and you can rest assured you don't have to worry about it.