What do you mean 'formed like a hold" ?

A full right-angle volume change cannot help but cause some sort of pop if on a waveform.

geoff

That's not true. There is a full right-angle shape in the envelopes called a "hold." It creates no pops or sound artifacts of any kind. But before this option was added, if I wanted to do that, I had to create it manually with two envelope points at a right angle. And that was no big deal, and up until 9.0a, doing it that way also created no pops or any other bad sounds. But now, if there are two envelope points at a right angle to eachother, it creates a very nasty sound.

Think about a sine-wave with a vertical 'shear' halfway up it's slope. No audible mal-effect ?!!

If you haven't had pops before if doing this, then you have been lucky - hitting low level signals or zero-crossings.

Instead of the 'hold', try it with a small slope - say a few tens of milliseconds.

Unless I've misunderstood you....

geoff

No, I think you understood correctly. It's wierd, because I've been doing the right-angle envelope thing for nearly a decade, since Vegas 1.0. Never had a single problem or ill-sounding effect. I'm not sure why it would start now if it wasn't a software issue. I'm just wondering if anyone else has had this issue.

It does kinda depend on the nature of the sound where the volume step is. If you are get a click on all volume steps as such, then maybe there is a problem.

Is it just volume envelopes, or all envelopes ? What about volume envelopes where there is no (or very low) signal ?


geoff

I think it's just volume envelopes. I haven't tried it on a pan envelope, I very rarely ever use them. And it happens whether there's a signal going on or not. I had some envelope points on a track, in between takes where there's no sound or clip, but it still makes the sound. And as a side note, if there's reverb on the track in question, the pop is potentially speaker-damaging. The first time it happened, my monitors were kinda loud, and it scared the bejeezus out of me. It happened a couple more times before I realized what the problem was. It happens on playback and render alike.

If it pops where there is no event, then you certainly do have a problem. Did you log the fault officially ?

Also worth trying dropping out any track FXs (one at a time) to see if it's something in there causing tthe problem.


geoff

The fault was logged and support said what you said above. I haven't been able to repo the problem myself as yet. It appears it isn't just a plop either, one user on the video forum reports having the meters read +54.

I suggested the problem be raised here to bring it to Peter's attention.

Bob.

Thanks for looking into it. I appreciate it. And also, it does happen when no FX are on the track. Most of my tracks have no inserts on them, and it happens on them, as well as tracks which do have inserts.

I did hear about this being a known bug and I would think would be fixed in Vegas 9.0b.

the +54dB post was from me.

here's another user having a very similar audio rendering problem

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?ForumID=4&MessageID=670489

moving the clips around to different tracks fixed the problem. There was no automation data involved. It was just a normal clip like all the other clips I was using: 24bit 48kHz files that were recorded with my Sound Devices 702 recorder.

Very few people have encountered this bug, and there are a lot bigger problems in 9 which may or may not be fixed in the 9.0b version, so I really don't expect to see whatever caused this to be fixed any time soon.

I never ran into any audio issues in version 8, so I rolled back to version 8 and have been using it happily ever since.

The one new audio feature in 9 (4point evelope lift) is great, but it's not worth the instability and unpredictability.

Ran into this on a couple of vanilla projects yesterday. Good news it is not a subtle problem and the work around is trivial.

OK for now.

Larry

This is the only issue I've encountered with 9. Otherwise running smoothly.

I can verify that I'm getting the pop as well. If I add one point of the type "hold" and adjust it to a different value, it doesn't pop. But two points of type other than "hold" configured to behave like a single "hold" point (appearing on the same sample) of differing values cause a loud pop.

I had not encountered this until 9.0b. I sent it in and this is the response I got from SCS.

Hi James,

Thank you for contacting Sony Creative Software.

The envelope needs to be created to drastically decrease or increase on a portion of the wave that crosses the zero line. If the envelope increases or decreases the volume drastically on a non zero crossing point, you will hear an audible pop. I have reproduced this issue with another customer's project in all Vegas versions. When I changed the envelope to increase or decrease the volume on the centerline where the wave crosses the line, I was able to remedy the issue and not hear the pop during the drastic change. This is a characteristic of all audio editing and is not just inherent in Vegas or other SCS applications.

If you still have a follow-up question on this particular incident, please feel free to update it. If you have a completely different question, please create a new incident.

Sincerely,

Eric D.
Customer Service & Technical Support
Sony Creative Software Inc
www.sonycreativesoftware.com

I am now moving the envelope point slightly to the right to avoid the pop,

James

Update: I just opened a veg I created in either 9.0 or 9.0a. I had multiple vertical holds that did not pop when I created them, but they do pop now with 9.0b. While I indicated above that I have a workaround, my concern is that SCS is not recognizing this issue as per their response to me that you can read from my previous post above this one.

my concern is that SCS is not recognizing this issue ...

We reproduce the problem and appears to be a bug. We are looking into it.

Peter

Bumping for a solution (the hardware audio monitors suffers the Vegas malfunction, please, help)

E.

Bumping again.

Thanks