Vegas HDV smart render

Arthur.S wrote on 6/17/2009, 9:32 AM

OK, so Vegas 8.0 smart renders mpeg2 for DVD just fine. Does it really not smart render m2t files? Or am I missing something? Surely you haven't got to re-render the whole project just to change say, a single filter?
Also, It seems like Sony has created a real 'gotcha' here. You need m2v files for DVDA/Blu-Ray, but Vegas doesn't recognise them - though it can create them. This seems to be an authoring suite that was designed by two different people who didn't like speaking to each other!

I'm really (really) hopin' that someone here will tell me I'm talking out of my a*se.

Comments

bsuratt wrote on 6/17/2009, 12:53 PM

In Options/Preferences/General last item "Enable no-recompress..."
be sure this is checked. Use standard template, smart render works perfectly. (There were problems with transistions glitching prior to 8c. )

Arthur.S wrote on 6/18/2009, 2:15 AM

Thank you for that info. I'll check it out.

Arthur.S wrote on 6/18/2009, 2:23 AM

OK, checked it out. Box is already ticked. (Which is why I guess it doesn't re-render SD mpeg2 files). Doesn't work with HD mpeg2 though.
Reading other posts here, I can see that this is a real problem Sony have created.

There's some real horror stories with 9.0 too. Aren't Sony listening? The main reason that I switched from MSP to Vegas was stability. If that's now gone, I'll be looking at other NLE's for the future. Sony seem to be undoing much of the loyalty that previous versions of Vegas have brought them.

Looking around it seems that a lot of people are switching to TMPGEnc 4 for Blu-ray authoring. Apparently it creates BR from m2t. Downloading a trial as we speak.

ushere wrote on 6/18/2009, 3:05 AM

well, 9 does suffer some problems, but smart render on m2t's works here as advertised. xp 32 / sp3.

owlsroost wrote on 6/18/2009, 4:34 AM

Smart render of HDV files works fine with 8.0c for me - you need to make sure the render template matches the source fully. It works for HDV files re-muxed to program streams too...

Where are the files from ?

How were the files captured ?

Tony

musicvid10 wrote on 6/18/2009, 7:00 AM

The five critical things that have to be the same for smart rendering to work:

Frame size (obvious)
Frame rate
Max bitrate
Average bitrate
Field order (easy to overlook)

Hope this helps.

Zulqar-Cheema wrote on 6/18/2009, 10:05 AM

Arthur, I thought you mentioned that the m2v files could not be dropped on to the TL?

perhaps some one enlighten me with then suffix of the DHV clips after render fro DVD-A eg m2t mtv

Arthur.S wrote on 6/18/2009, 3:24 PM

Files are captured using Vegas 8c HDV capture. I've tried both of my edit PC's.
One is XP 32bit, Vegas 8c. The other is Vista Business 64bit, Vegas 8c and 8.1
I've used a set template at all times, so I know that the settings are the same. (And I've double checked before render) I've also tried constant and variable bit rates.
Found this thread at CC which is sort of similar:
http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/24/887191#887191
I'm wondering if 8.1 has overwritten something - though I thought 8c and 8.1 are completely separate installations?

Also found this on these forums:
"You SHOULDN'T get ANY recompression when going from HDV to M2V for BD-r.... but you will. The Vegas "no recompress" function is a little broken with the blu ray templates so you'll see short bursts of "no recompress" on the screen.... but it does render pretty dammed fast and if there is any quality loss... I sure can't see it."

Zed, Vegas can't even SEE m2v, let alone import it onto the timeline. Same as AC3. It can create them, but can't import them. I really don't see the point of that!

This thread is also interesting:
http://www.videohelp.com/forum/archive/vegas-smart-render-using-mpeg2-ac3-files-t359245.html

owlsroost wrote on 6/18/2009, 3:43 PM

Which render template are you using ?

(The MPEG-2 Blu-ray templates have different settings to HDV so it won't smart-render to those).

Tony

Arthur.S wrote on 6/18/2009, 3:51 PM

Well, all of the Blu-Ray templates are m2v which Vegas doesn't recognise. So I customised one of them by unticking the 'create separate video/audio streams' (Which is m2v) and ticking 'include audio'. This changed the file extension to m2t. I'm wondering now if I use an HDV template it will work.......

Arthur.S wrote on 6/18/2009, 3:57 PM

1 minute later.....That's it exactly. Thank you Tony. Seems an m2t isn't always an m2t! :-)

Of course, that doesn't solve the problem of DVDA only accepting m2v without re-rendering - which Vegas can create, but can't even see! :-(

Arthur.S wrote on 6/19/2009, 1:38 AM

Thought I'd cracked it. Thinks; If I tick the 'create separate video/audio streams' box, Vegas will create an m2v. So DVDA won't have to re-render. Errrm..wrong. Obviously not the right flavour of m2v for DVDA. (my original problem in reverse).

On the plus side; If I render with the HDV-50i template (only changing it to 'PAL') it whizzes through my original camera m2t's with that lovely "No recompression" in the preview window. Also, if I then change to the Blu-Ray 50i (m2v) template for the final render, it renders very quickly with "No recompression" flashing intermittently.

Altogether a much happier bunny today. Yesterday felt like trying to run through treacle! Thanks to all for your input.

Message to Sony:
If HDV is captured by Vegas as m2t. You would therefore think it logical to keep it as m2t right through to the finished Blu-Ray disc. But no. DVDA will only create a BR with m2v. Which means re-compression. You wonder how a 60 quid programme like TMPG 4 can be so versatile, but Sony can't. Of course to top it all, Vegas can't actually read m2v (or AC3 for that matter!) Just daft.

owlsroost wrote on 6/19/2009, 2:18 AM

Seems an m2t isn't always an m2t! :-)

An MPEG transport stream is just a container format - it can contain many possible video and audio streams (MPEG-2/MPEG-4/h.264/AVCHD....AC3/AAC/DTS/MP2/MP3/PCM.....etc)

The file suffixes are not standardised - they are just arbitary choices/conventions.

I don't author Blu-Ray, but my understanding is that DVDA won't accept HDV-compliant MPEG-2 without re-compressing - it regards it as non-compliant with the Blu-Ray specs.

Tony

owlsroost wrote on 6/19/2009, 2:31 AM

If HDV is captured by Vegas as m2t. You would therefore think it logical to keep it as m2t right through to the finished Blu-Ray disc. But no. DVDA will only create a BR with m2v. Which means re-compression. You wonder how a 60 quid programme like TMPG 4 can be so versatile, but Sony can't. Of course to top it all, Vegas can't actually read m2v (or AC3 for that matter!) Just daft.

It's not the container (transport stream - m2t - or elementary stream - m2v) that makes the difference - it's the parameters of the MPEG video stream inside it which are the deciding factor. (Just compare the settings on the 'video' tab of the HDV and Blu-Ray render templates).

And yes, some other authoring tools are more tolerant of source file parameters.

Tony

blink3times wrote on 6/19/2009, 3:03 AM

", Vegas can't actually read m2v (or AC3 for that matter!) Just daft. "

While I agree that it's a bit weird that Vegas can not read M2V (and have complained about this before)... it CAN read AC3. It just needs to be in the right container. AC3 in a MTS or M2TS container will open on the time line, as will AC3 when imported from a dvd file. (Could be wrong but I believe this has something to do with dolby licensing).