Dolby's ac3 when used correctly goes to some lengths to address this issue. I read that how the dialog normal values are meant to be derived are specified by the ATSC.

Bob.

Well, yes, it is about mixing and average levels. A TV commercial with music and an up-beat announcer is going to sound louder than dramatic dialogue even if there were at approximately the same relative levels.

But the averages are higher in many (most, actually...) commercials, and these levels can be legislated. Personally, I find it irritating to be watching TV and suddenly being blasted out of the room when a commercial pops on. I use two options: having an alternate channel ready to be accessed with a single button push on the remote, or if that fails (it is not for no reason that ads are time-synchronised...), I hit the "mute" button. I do not like being sonically assaulted in my own home!

Just a second, I need to turn down the volume on the TV.

I think they should outlaw Billy Mays,,, PROBLEM SOLVED FOR 19.99

Years ago, I used to work for a small company that did ad insertion for a local cable company, 'till they took it over...

If I remember right, every channel that we inserted commercials on, had its own card, which would communicate with a satillite, & we could raise or lower the volume on our commercials(overall, not individually), to match the channel levels... so if we recieved complaints of our commercials being louder than the programming, we would go & lower (or raise as the case may be) the volume on that particular card, 'till it matched... & we did this with our ear, no equipment that showed levels....

Of course this was in the old analog days.... we still had to make sure our audio levels on the production side only peaked past 0db occasionally....

PS... you would think that there would be some nice AGC circuitry out there now, to prevent this sort of thing....

Oh geezz, limiters on the phase modulators of the transmitters to maintain a constant mod index.
JJK

You've been around a few days also!....

Commercials? What on Earth are those? (Multiple DVR with auto skip owner.)

so...... small stations that still insert via tape will be fined up the wazoo. If someone ran 2001 then pretty much any commercial would be "louder volumes than the program material they accompany." If you ran a metal concert you could have screaming donkeys.

Just what we need: someone being PAID to say the TV's to loud!

The broadcasters naturally want to do this anyways.

Some of the people paying for the commercials don't though... :/

I for one hope they do outlaw loud tv commmercials!

Well, here's the problem... How could they determine what the audio level was just before the commercial? Was it some televised racous heavy metal concert or was it a bit of drama with very soft-spoken dialogue? Even if it was a drama with soft dialogue at that moment, what's to say there wasn't some car chase with guns blazing just seconds before? Even at exactly the same audio levels you can tell when someone is screaming versus talking normally. I'm irritated by yelling and screaming regardless of the sound pressure level.

I suppose you could measure the last 30 seconds of programming and determine the average level and by knowing the average level of the commercial, they could set the level of the commercial to match. But then what happens when it returns to the programming and the first scene is really loud? How does one make a smooth transition from quiet scene, then quiet commercial to loud scene?

Most comercials are too loud - they should match the approximate level of a news broad cast probably - I hate hitting having to hit mute all the time because of the excess volume - and mute doesn't help get the message across any better either for the person paying for the comercial.

I personally don't like the idea of spending my hard earned money on this kind of stuff. If that is all that is left to work on then these guys in government need to call it quits because it sounds like all the hard stuff must be wrapped up and we are now on the bottom of the to-do list.

In general the average audio level is higher in commercials because those paying want them noticed. Even station promos on non-commercial networks use the "blast the ears" approach. This is to warn you that it's time to go make the coffee or other activities. I'm fast on the mute button. Switching channels to avoid commercials would be an even worse distraction. I'm unusually averse to interruptions in features and docos, and I find most annoying the habit in docos of retelling after the break that which preceeded the it. Sheesh, you already said all that! What sort of limited attention span do you think we have?

1] Free enterprise - yah gotta love it!

2] TV will be DEAD in 2 years anyway. Why do you think Rupert Murdock bought that Internet Community thing? Advertisers and the CITY have been for the last year mumbling and grumbling that TV just might not be the "smart-place" to shovel money into anymore.

3] We don't have ANY of these issues with the BBC? BTW, what's an advert?

4] Tell me? Why do paid cable services need to have ADs anyway? 'Cos the monthly doesn't cover the content licences and the "creativity"? Oh, palah-eese!

Just my rambling, rumblings . . . I've stopped watching channels with ADs and use my BT-Vbox to record - yes record - and when viewing we flash through 'em.

Nice point Harold!

Grazie

Here I watch the ABC for the same reasons Grazie does BBC : no commercials. But we do still get blasted by programme promos. When those phone pollers want me to rank various products (as seen on TV) I'm the "don't know, don't know, never see them".

You Americans and others are lucky, at least you don't have to put up with Barry Scott's Cillic Bang like us Brit's.

Edit: HA HA, I just saw your http://www.asseenontvvideo.com/Billy-Mays.htmlBilly Mays[/link] ads. I think Barry Scott may have met his match!

The Sham-Wow guy has Billy Mays beat particulalry with reverse over the head hook shots.
An audio limiter based on average power level could easily be employed in the transmitter modulator but that won't happen unless it's legislated.
JJK

Why do you think Rupert Murdock bought that Internet Community thing?

Didn't you hear? They're dropping over 1/2 of that! >:( (I'm one being dropped!!)

This is just going to be impossible to do! What people perceive as "average" volume & what actually is are two different things. I could run a movie with an "average" volume of 0db & a TONE of an "average" volume of 0db and people will say the tone's louder because they don't know what they're talking about! Just like people who say assault weapons are double barrel shotguns, they don't actually KNOW what is going on, they're just spouting jibberish!

FACTS in Australia require that all commercials now adhere to guidelines on average loudness.
Discovery Channel International and its affiliates already have a delivery specs for all program audio specifying average loudness LeQ(A) or via the Dolby LM100 as follows.

Track Type Average audio levels Peak audio levels Dialogue Level
Full Mix (Stereo or Dual Mono) -28 to -20 dBFS Not above -10 dBFS -26 to –28 dBFS
Full Mix (Single Channel Mono) -28 to -20 dBFS Not above -10 dBFS -29 to –31 dBFS
Surround Sound Mix Tracks -28 to -20 dBFS Not above -3 dBFS -26 to –28 dBFS
Element Tracks \(Music, Effects, Mix minus
Narration, Dialogue, Narration) -28 to -20 dBFS Not above -3 dBFS Unrestricted

Basically legislation following these guidelines, or similar, is how it will most likely be implemented.

New Hope Media

The table above didn't format so that the headings line up correctly so here's the link to the source
www.cinehd.biz/DIGITALFILM/Downloads/DCI_Global%20Technical%20Specs_HD.pdf Delivery Specs[/link]